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Better Nerf Rek'Sai

DorkunedAuras··31 votes·2,734 views

V6.14 Tremor sense refresh per target increased to 1.5 seconds from 0.75. NEW EFFECT: Tremor Sense won't alert Rek'Sai if the enemy is minorly moving to modify their facing. V6.3 Tunnel BUG FIX: Occasionally failed to go through a Tunnel when trying to use a second Tunnel as she exits a first one. V5.17 Fury of the Xer'Sai No longer grant 15 bonus fury upon unburrowing. V5.13 Unburrow Knock-up radius reduced to 160 from 200. V5.10 General Base health reduced to 570 from 611.2 V5.7 Queen's Wrath AD Ratio per strike reduced to (+ 20% Bonus AD) from (+ 30% Bonus AD). Total AD ratio reduced to (+ 60% Bonus AD) from (+ 90% Bonus AD). Tunnel Per-tunnel cooldown reduced to 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 seconds from 10 at all ranks. Fixed an error in the tooltip. Actual duration is 10 seconds, not 12. V5.5 Tunnel Now uses the ward spawning UI to show the number of existing tunnels vs the maximum as well as displaying which tunnel will be destroyed once you've reached the limit. V5.2 Queen's Wrath Base damage reduced to 15 / 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 from 15 / 30 / 45 / 60 / 75. Unburrow Base damage reduced to 40 / 80 / 120 / 160 / 200 from 60 / 110 / 160 / 210 / 260. On-target cooldown reduced to 10 / 9.5 / 9 / 8.5 / 8 seconds from 10 at all ranks. V5.1 Queen's Wrath Base bonus damage reduced to 15 / 30 / 45 / 60 / 75 from 15 / 35 / 55 / 75 / 95. Bonus attack damage ratio reduced to (+30% bonus AD) from (+40% bonus AD). Prey Seeker Ability power ratio reduced to (+70% AP) from (+100% AP). Unburrow Bonus attack damage ratio reduced to (+40% bonus AD) from (+50% bonus AD).

This is Rek'Sai's entire change history. Within it, There are 13 nerfs, 2 very small buffs, and a small mix of QoL changes.

No one is arguing that she wasn't OP upon release and didn't need nerfs, she did. The problem is that her competitive viability has kept her from ever being seriously buffed. The problem comes from the fact that Pros have an entirely different set of needs. She has some level of special vision, she has slightly more than 0 damage, she ganks well and early. That's all they want. Anything else is extra.

Riot was contemplating two different nerfs for 6.14 with the goal of hurting competitive far more than normals. The Tremor sense nerf we got, and the nerf that's now back on the PBE (+30 seconds on ult CD at all ranks).

As someone who plays Rek'Sai a lot, the 6.14 nerf didn't actually do much. I still know there's a person there, it still does its job. All that nerf did was make tremor sense feel a ton worse, without actually hurting her. Placebo nerfs like that hit her normals a hell of a lot harder than her Professional.

In contrast, the Ult nerfs do actually hurt her professional a lot more than normals, and are actually kind of reasonable.

I just want one thing from you riot. Since you're clearly against having Rek'Sai be the bruiser she was intended to be, at least let her track targets. Give her her tremor sense back to its full glory.

56 Comments

WolfChases15 votes

I personally never had problems with Rek'Sai and she seems to deal low damage comparing to any bruiser or a tank. I may be wrong since my max rank was Platinum 3 tho...Just talking based on my personal experience.

MohawkBird5 votes

[deleted]

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Same, I feel like as far as non professional or high elo play, she is really nothing more than a knock up bot. Damage is extremely lackluster since they turned her from bruiser to tank a while back and it's really all she has now.

I'm not high elo, and she still feels like a knockup bot.

Building damage is outright outclassed by building straight tank with perhaps a titanic hydra or triforce. Even then her damage is outright lower than any other fighter/tank/assassin.

NichtHurz1 votes

Well, I'm just Gold 5 and I play her not only but mostly because she can almost oneshot the enemy adc. I still need to improve my combo with animation cancelling, but together with Titanic she has 2 animation cancels and the ability to obliterate the enemy adc. She really feels fun to play, but her Tremor Sense nerfs are just kinda annoying. It's really hard to hit a borrowed Q if you have to wait 1.5 seconds to even know which direction an enemy is moving.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

Her damage falls off assuming that she doesn't get a lead, but if she does she snowballs really hard. However she is pretty good at getting a lead because of extremely strong early game. By which I mean her tankiness, damage, ganks, and clears are all top tier. There are junglers who can match or surpass a maybe 1 or 2 of those strengths but definitely not all of them. Especially if she gets ahead then shutting her down becomes unlikely.

Aatrox Mid 1v54 votes

No, her damage will always fall off past 20 mins assuming you are going with the tank build as you should. unless you are extremely fed ofc. It also doesnt help that she struggles to stay onto her target if shes chasing someone. and volibear can do all the things you mentioned but better (except the tankiness part though). they should buff the base damage of her q later into the game or remove the 20% bonus ad scaling and give it a 5% ad scaling since she ussually doesnt build much damage anyway

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

Volibear doesn't not match her and if anything is a weaker version of her. The only thing he does better than her is being a better meat shield assuming his passive is up. She clears much faster than him with better ganks and stronger pressure. In a straight 1 on 1 volibear probably wins but rek Sai can disengage and get away or just not fight him if she choses not to. Her mobility makes chasing her pointless as volibear. Yet she can just gank and farm faster than you. So while his damage and tankiness may be a match for her. His clearing, ganking, and pressure aren't. Very powerful strengths that mean she can just beat him to death with exp and a bag of gold as soon she gets a lead.

Toplane Fencer4 votes

Volibear has much better damage and easier ganks for people who don't know what they're doing. Also quite good AoE damage. He is far superior in non-competetive play which their winrates show.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

For people that don't what they are doing, key phrase there. Rek Sai is a very powerful jungler for those who actually know how to jungle.

Toplane Fencer1 votes

And the only people who actually know to jungle well with Rek'Sai are the professionals. She requires very good map awareness and communication, things which people below Challenger or professional play simply don't have. Voli is better in every way in SoloQ than Rek'Sai is.

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

Ehh volibear is better at gold and below since he can find him self in very opportunistic situations that shouldn't happen and just snowball. His was one route was pretty disgusting but then he got nerfed and weaken the one thing that I thought was really good about him. Plat + rek Sai probably just going to be better where more consistent map awareness and communication exist.

Toplane Fencer1 votes

Have you even seen the nerfs she's received? She's not good at anything except LCS anymore.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

You forgot release rek'sai,son.

Solaris Ventara1 votes

Originaly tho, Rek'Sai was ment to be a fighter champion. However, many of these nerfs wound up reducing her to the " slightly squishy jungle tank" line :/

KVbqbFsC8e12 votes

Rek'sai gets nerfed because it completely dominates competitive play.

DorkunedAuras13 votes

As mentioned, She has everything they want in competative, which is leaves her woefully weak for the other 99.9999% of us.

Elikain3 votes

She really isn't weak at all. The point is, if you want damage from her, you'll have to buy damage and lay off the tank stats. Competitive play is 99% teamwork and they value her constant knock ups, mobility and tremor sense to see past warded areas. They don't really care about her damage all that much.

DorkunedAuras7 votes

I do build damage, and fall off a cliff mid-late game because I have pathetic ratios.

And she doesn't have constant knockups, it's a per target CD of 10-8 seconds.

Vellich0r1 votes

but thats with the possibility of hitting a new individual target every couple of seconds. Its very constant, even if the per target cooldown is very slightly less constant. (Saying otherwise would be like saying yasuo doesnt have constant dashes because he has to wait to dash back through the same unit more than once.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

I do build damage, and fall off a cliff mid-late game because I have pathetic ratios.

And she doesn't have constant knockups, it's a per target CD of 10-8 seconds.

Honestly they should just remove her base damages and give her great AD scalings. That way you either have to play her as a mobile knockup tank with no damage, or play her like a fighter like she's intended to be played.

I bought her and her original skin on release, and I loved to play her, but honestly I just gave up trying after the series of nerfs just killed her for me who loves to go full damage.

Arakadia1 votes

I want her to not dominate LCS so much so she can be good for normals.

THE RlVER KlNG6 votes

I've never found Rek'Sai overbearing and I don't see her often. Then again, I'm far from being a pro player. That ult nerf looks a bit overboard, actually.

Treune815 votes

Meanwhile Elise is immune from nerfs.

ShadowParker4 votes

What are you talking about.. Do you really not remember that time where she got gutted for a long period of time?

Treune811 votes

{quoted}

What are you talking about.. Do you really not remember that time where she got gutted for a long period of time?

Don't protect strong competitive champion.Elise's p/b rate is 41%. She is still so strong and needs nerf.

ShadowParker3 votes

I'm just saying. Your previous statement made it sound like she was immune in general. My statement was saying that Elise isn't immune to Riots gutting.

Treune812 votes

{quoted}

I'm just saying. Your previous statement made it sound like she was immune in general. My statement was saying that Elise isn't immune to Riots gutting.

If so where is Elise nerf?

PermabannedGaren4 votes

Rek'sai is probably the most unfortunate design in the game.

What she provides is so good for professional and very high elo play that she isn't allowed to be useful for the majority of the playerbase, because if she provided what she does now and also did satisfactory damage she'd be incredibly OP where she is already very good.

Oakleaf Ranger3 votes

Screw this champion, her ability to basically force ganks from any position combined with her clear speed and sustain makes this champion so cancerous. If they slowed down her early game a bit I probably wouldn't have a problem with this RekSai

TheSingularity1 votes

The reason she gets such an early game edge is because her presence falls off a cliff late game. Exhaust her while she's tunneling and she's done. Her q will be slow af and she probs won't knock anyone up.

Besides, if they nerf her early game then my top lane reksai won't work

Champions with better clears and just as much, if not more sustain include: sejuani, zac, yi, gragas, nidalee, mundo, aatrox, yorick and zyra. Fyi, sustain in this case also covers not getting hit period

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

Of the ones you listed only gragas can match her sustain and clear speed. By which I mostly mean the first clear and the 2nd and 3rd. Almost all junglers can clear efficiency at some point either do to levels and items or the combination of the 2 but rek Sai can do it extremely well with just half a jungle item. I know she falls buy her early game is so godly that the trade off feels very one sided. If they shifted some of early game power into her mid game I would think she would be a much healthier champion. With the only person on your most likely to run exhaust being your support or maybe mid. So that's pretty awful solution/counter play. Well I did face rek Sai top once and it was just as I expected, a free awful idea and a free lane for me.

TheSingularity1 votes

I'll out clear and out sustain a rek sai with zac sej and zyra any day babe What was the match up vs reksai? Cos the only match ups so far that were insta loss were vlad and darius [slayer-jinx-wink]

Oakleaf Ranger2 votes

I was playing pre mage update swain. She couldn't farm and constantly being poked until I killed her or forced her to back. Some champions may not be able to outright beat early on but by 6 I imagine at least all meta top laners could.

TheSingularity1 votes

Well that settles that one. U got range, cc, dot and better sustain. Would've been very similar to rek sai V vlad (post update) If the rek sai new what to do with her top (tbh i assume he was doin it for the lols) he probs coulda gone executioners calling into spirit visage and been able to duel you once that was achieved.

As that worked after a few cringe worthy losses to the new vlad (do note i said "were"). Farm passively, using fury to sustain and burrow q to cs, get those 2 items and vlads were crying blood left and right XD

Legit though, rek sai gives diver style champs a really hard time (darius and garen are a pain doe). Yasuo, irelia and xin are cake. They dash in and I knock em up, momentum gone and trade in my favor.

Haven't played the new swain, how's he feeling at the moment? A let down? In a good spot? Other?

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

I stopped playing him after the ult nerf, he just ain't the same for me. I only built like 20 CDR on him and the change killed it for me. The item recommendations for swain are retarded, I would never build CDR boots on him before and I ain't starting now.

R FLASH XD3 votes

Rek'Sai was fun at release when she did damage, now she is a knockup bot.

Dominick Destine3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Horny Flamingo,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y7AXRbGo,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2016-08-13T05:28:30.817+0000)

Rek'Sai was fun at release when she did damage, now she is a knockup bot.

Rek Sai is doing significantly more damage and has more presence than any alternative jungler that provides even remotely close to the level of utility rek sai does.

"Knockup bot"? ahahahahahahaha, good joke.

Ladrac2 votes

agree

TheSingularity2 votes

Ikr. Pros don't pick her because she's OP or broken. I mean cmon, her release trailer hints at her being a high burst diver, not a bloody tank who's sole purpose is to stay underground and provide vision since riot nerfed it so hard in pro play (green ward remova, ward cap of 3l).

Think about it, almost every competitive jungler has some form of vision control or a means to get info. Elise rapel and spider bomb. Grag q. Nid q/w. And rek sai burrow sense and q

They pick her to stop fights from ever starting and snowballing out of control. Gragas/malphite can't flash ult if rek sai sees him first and signals the team to retreat.

Stop nerfing people who don't need it, fix damage creep, re introduce green wards or remove ward cap and stop the dam snowball nature of the meta.

jinxedchef2 votes

I have always been under the impression that there should be a different set of numbers for the professional scene vs ranked. Hard enough to balance out one side it is impossible to balance out them both with the same set of rules. The recent tower changes are an example of this. Rek'sai is going to have to be a bit weak in solo to not be OP in the pro games.

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

At 40% cd, her ult is still a small 42 seconds iirc. Its pretty short for a global pressure ability.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

The thing with CDR is that it's universally percentage-based So since Rek'Sai's ult CD is so long, if she gets 45% CDR or whatever then 45% of the CD (nearly half) will be reduced by a lot and thus be fairly low despite the base being very large (and growing even larger with the nerf) for an ultimate. I've coined it as the Karthus Effect.

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

Yeah.

There is one nerf you forget to mention on this list.

The ammount of tunnels you could have on release was unlimited (or limited to 20?).

I remember people playing her top, with a sequence of tunnels leading from the fountain to the lane. t'was hilarious.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

Yep, remember that. It's 8 now, correct?

DorkunedAuras4 votes

As someone who's been playing her on release, she was always capped at 8. Are you thinking of PBE?

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

Well idk what world you played her on, but she had a much hiigher cap when she was released. I played on on release aswell.

NinjaFifer5 votes

I played on release as well, and I'm with Auras. It's always been 8. He's got the whole change list posted. Go reference the lack of mention of cap changes there.

DREADN0UGHT1 votes

Did some research and turns out you guys are right. My bad. It was on PBE that Rek had lesser limitations. ~~~~

DorkunedAuras1 votes

I know my Rek'Sai.

Poske1 votes

All hail the Power creep BOYS!!!!!! All Hail the damage creep Reksai is your proof

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