How the fck do I play as tank against Vayne toplane???

Calamity1337·Mar 21, 2017·8 votes·6,592 views

Today I just had a game as tanky champs against vayne on toplane, she can poke you and then hunt you till death. Do you have any tips how do I actually counter her on toplane?

34 Comments

NahuiMar 21, 20177 votes

You don't, think about what you just said. You got counter-picked hard. A tank vs Vayne is nearly always in favor of Vayne unless you can get an early game, high-base damage burst from a tank like Poppy or Nautilus. You'll need your jungler or proper outplays (Predicting tumbles, preventing 3rd autos). Otherwise, if you see top vayne and you are going to pick, don't pick a tank. Pick someone, like Hyperion said, champions like Jayce or Quinn that do more early game burst while maintaining a steady flow of DPS.

Dasdi96Mar 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You don't, think about what you just said. You got counter-picked hard. A tank vs Vayne is nearly always in favor of Vayne unless you can get an early game, high-base damage burst from a tank like Poppy or Nautilus. You'll need your jungler or proper outplays (Predicting tumbles, preventing 3rd autos). Otherwise, if you see top vayne and you are going to pick, don't pick a tank. Pick someone, like Hyperion said, champions like Jayce or Quinn that do more early game burst while maintaining a steady flow of DPS.

What if your team needs a tank top laner and/or you can't play carry top laners.

LetMePullYouMar 21, 20171 votes

Then watch yourself either die or have no farm... Maybe ask another lane if they want to switch?

NahuiMar 21, 20172 votes

Well then fix the problem and learn some diversity for the role. Learn a carry top laner, at least to an average level, so you can not feed with anything but a comfy tank pick. Sometimes you can't pick what you want.

If your team needs a tank, the jungler should step up and do it there because you're committing lane-control suicide picking a slow tank vs Vayne. That or he needs to sit top. One of the worst parts about tanks are when they get smacked down top lane, don't have the damage to easily CS under tower, are terribly underfed, and don't have the gold to buy the items to justify their entire pick: Tanky items. The difference between an average-performing Jayce breaking even top lane with Vayne and a feeding Malphite or Maokai is that the Jayce will be doing good damage. Their tankiness won't be that much different due to difference in gold.

Jayce, Quinn, Swain, Fiora, Camille, Wukong. Have one of those? Learn one, they're all pretty good top lane for when you don't need a tank. Some build quite tanky anyways. But, counter-picking is part of forming a team composition and unless you can guarantee beat a counter-pick whether it's your own self-confidence or jungler assurance, I'd not pick into a counter.

PhDs NutsMar 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The difference between an average-performing Jayce breaking even top lane with Vayne and a feeding Malphite or Maokai is that the Jayce will be doing good damage. Their tankiness won't be that much different due to difference in gold.

I wouldn't use Malphite as an example there. Malphite is always useful. He just wouldn't be unkillable after the ult combo.

NahuiMar 21, 20171 votes

Eh, the ult combo is great in ganks sure. But the terrible lack of early game gold would put him behind due to not having a reliable way to counter-poke/fight and with the new Warlord's, even moreso. Malphite's ult is great, but unless he's going an AP cheese build, it shouldn't be enough to ever all-in vayne solo. Plus, a lot of Malphite's strength comes from his free armor and sticking potential, which Vayne is a great counter against both.

He was just a generic example of a tank too. Nothing against him personally in the match up. May he perform better than other tanks? Sure. But, you shouldn't see a Vayne and decide to pick Malph banking on an ult CD unless you've got a carry jungler wanting free kills.

RalanrMar 21, 20171 votes

Though there is the issue of Vayne being last picked.

Vayne top is mainly just cheese. If you have a tank with poke then you can farm pretty safely. Otherwise you need jungle pressure and a farming item rushed.

NahuiMar 21, 20171 votes

I mean yeah, she's a cheese pick. My advice was just so he doesn't see one and determine he can only play a tank. It's often unavoidable.

RalanrMar 21, 20171 votes

In theory a Sion with good aim can just harass Vayne with his E. grabbing a dorans ring just for better early damage.

NahuiMar 21, 20171 votes

Well yes, there's plenty of theorycrafting. And you could go an odd cheese build, that's how you counter cheese sometimes. Max E on Sion, go doran's and just hope you land each one. However, that's all you have. If your gimmick fails, you lose. Just like you may be a great Sion E aimer, that vayne might be a great tumblr and due to Sion's predictability on his E with cast animation and creep positioning, it's very likely for this to go wrong. Plus, his E was nerfed and with the new warlord's plus an early bilgewater for bork/lifesteal, it shouldn't be hard for vayne to recover from periodic, possibly-hitting E.

RalanrMar 21, 20172 votes

True, but that doesn't prevent Sion from farming with his E.

NahuiMar 21, 20171 votes

CD does. It's also aoe, you'll be shoving your wave by accident. Sion's E isn't simply like Zed's Q where you can reliably farm with it. I personally wouldn't take Sion into her. If you want a tank versus her, I'd go Nautilus. PAssive makes for great farming, early game E costs nothing relative to the doran's ring you get. Has incredible CC so once you get to her, you have a great chance of bursting her down. His ult follows so she can't ult and escape so easily, e extends out so even tumbling in ult, you can easily hit her due to not needing vision. Lots of shields to mitigate damage (assuming you took colossus.) Scales hard off of AP. Can counter-condemn by timing his anchor just right. So long as his anchor hits after Vayne's condemn bolt hits, he'll pull himself right back to her and she's as good as dead. But again, tanks are not optimal vs Vayne.

NahuiMar 21, 20171 votes

And remember, I'm not saying Sion can't win. It's better to play a champion you're good at than locking in a random counterpick, so if you love Sion and they picked Vayne, go ahead and grab Sion if you don't feel comfortable with a counterpick. Experience>Champ. However, understand the match up is rigged against you and that you will have to put in way more effort than the Vayne will.

God RaijinMar 21, 20173 votes

you could pick something that can just farm safe like DrMundo . You don't necessarily need to "beat" vayne to become more useful later on. Or you could pick something tank-ish like Swain , even if hes not a true tank, hes still very "survivable" with his ult and item 3157 and can still act as a front line for your team.

Fondling GemsMar 21, 20171 votes

At that point as Raijin said you can pick a safe tank/semi tank. You also have the option of going for something that can transition into tank like J4. Keep in mind that the enemy team probably wont have a real tank either if they have a vayne top. Grab something that can invalidate her in teamfights like Ryze and you will come out on top in terms of team comp despite the lack of a true tank.

If you need to play a tank grab something shield heavy like Naut. Since health/armour stacking isn't super effective vs vayne then shields are your best bet since they will soak up damage for you. Rush a item 3082 for the AS slow as that does reduce her damage output and most of her damage is still physical, not true damage until you stack a ton of armour and health, especially since she needs 3-4 points in W before it starts to actually hurt.

If you are on Nautilus you can also grab a catalyst which will provide sustain, waveclear, and mana restoration as she tries to fight you.

HeresyHorusMar 21, 20174 votes

as a tank ( or any solo laner ) you cant, simple as that.

to beat Vayne solo lane you need something with +575 range targeted hard CC/Blind and to be able to burst her during that CC/Blind duration.

just 4 are reliable enough to be picked with trust vs solo vayne Annie Irelia Pantheon Teemo

have the cc but their ratios are bad they need more than 2 items to burst her and they have some setup time ( cant cast combo instantly ).
u need to land that Q, otherwise u lose and its easy for vayne to dodge 2 Q form before u go OOM.
theoretically can counter vayne IF she screwed up badly, they cant initiate or make plays on their own if vayne is good ( jax is better cuz poppy E is harder to lad than his E ).
if built assassin he CAN instagib her from stealth but he will be bad in teamfights.
i dont think they have enough damage to kill her before she make distance.

HyperiönMar 21, 20173 votes

Have your jungler stay top all game. Or just match it is like jayce or quinn.

PhDs NutsMar 21, 20171 votes

I think Sion works well. Otherwise I don't know how these games happened:

http://i.imgur.com/oDq3p3E.png[/img]

Start D Ring, max E and just hang back. CS with your E and try to get poke at the same time. You can all-in with the unstoppable ult from short range after baiting movement with Q. The ult is also a great way to roam to other lanes and cause havoc while Vayne tries to push your lane in for 5 minutes.

I wouldnt play any other non-Malphite tank into Vayne, but Malphite has a weaker early game (you won't farm... at all).

SilentBomberMar 21, 20171 votes

Pick Jax and smash her down ^^

Calamity1337Mar 21, 20172 votes

I don't think Jax can kill her easily in early cuz her pokes are insane. Also in late she can beat you.

DoktorKaiserMar 21, 20171 votes

She can condemn through your dodge for some reason so its far from a good pick vs vayne, actually its fucking terrible.

SilentBomberMar 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

She can condemn through your dodge for some reason so its far from a good pick vs vayne, actually its fucking terrible.

A jax level 6 with item 3144 will never lose to vayne top.I main Jax and got 325k mastery points with him.I never lost vs Vayne ;)

DoktorKaiserMar 21, 20171 votes

Then its a bad Vayne, its just a fact that if both Vayne and Jax play a perfect duel Vayne will win it, she can condemn you if you try to stun her, she can tumble away from the stun especially with her ulti, she will out-dps and out-lifesteal you and tankyness doesnt matter because its Vayne, there is just no fucking way you can win that matchup, maybe if you are full damage Jax but in that case you are trash and bring nothing to the team since you blow up like a caster minion.

SilentBomberMar 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Then its a bad Vayne, its just a fact that if both Vayne and Jax play a perfect duel Vayne will win it, she can condemn you if you try to stun her, she can tumble away from the stun especially with her ulti, she will out-dps and out-lifesteal you and tankyness doesnt matter because its Vayne, there is just no fucking way you can win that matchup, maybe if you are full damage Jax but in that case you are trash and bring nothing to the team since you blow up like a caster minion.

Vayne will never against Jax.I admit as a Jax main that Vayne will outfarm me pre level 6.However after level 6 Jax got his ultimate's passive and can poke better than Vayne.

DoktorKaiserMar 21, 20171 votes

Maybe in silver, definitely not in high elo...

Funkin DunkinMar 21, 20171 votes

Chogath DrMundo Gnar Illaoi Malphite Maokai Nasus Nautilus Olaf Poppy Renekton Sion Skarner Yorick Zac

So many tanks that can beat her. Just play smart

Calamity1337Mar 21, 20171 votes

Well, it's impossible to counterpick her when she pick after you and also, even when she doesn't. 90% of Vayne players play ADC. I couldn't switch cuz I had retarded midlaner and jungle came once and gave her double. What a beautiful game.

Maddened King Mar 21, 20171 votes

You get Cinderhulk, and you all in her ass after you TP.

Gregor GysiMar 21, 20171 votes

So you want to know what to do if you are ingame as a tank toplane against a Vayne toplane, right? So assuming that picks are over you just need to accept that you will not win lane against your counter, going equal should be impossible too. Try to freeze the lane at your side so that she is vulnerable to ganks and ask your jungler to come top. Dont push the lane into her early, yes it helps you with minion aggro but she will just freeze it herself and then fck you for the next 10 minutes. Miss minions that would result in you taking a lot of damage, you can't get every CS. Rush Tabi and some sort of armor that synergizes well with your tank. If you can shove it in post 6 in her absence (when she goes warding or whatever) then do that and look for TP opportunities botlane, that's what you do much better than her. If their botlane turret is down then go and help drake. When drake is down aswell tell your botlane to swap. If your toplane turret is down then go roam/TP. If she stands in front of your t2 turret and you don't get help from your team/your team doesn't get shit done then ~~report your jungler~~ try to minimalize the damages and avoid dying, you may need to give up your turret.

E: Oh and keep it mind that it's a lane counterpick. Your composition should be better than theirs.

DisulfiramMar 21, 20171 votes

Nobody mentioned Galio ! :'(

Sure, he scales off of MR, but the old boy A) can farm safely from range (= without eating much poke) B) has an ult large enough to always catch Vayne if she tries to fight him post 6 C) shoves lane much harder than Vayne (= tower is safe) D) is a beast in teamfights and skirmishes (as opposed to Vayne, who is a much better duelist and needs a lot of protection in fights if the enemy team is not composed of 5 immobile melees)

asamuMar 21, 20171 votes

What tank specifically? It depends a LOT on what specific character you are talking about. In the early game, a lot of "tanks" can just kill Vayne. It's when she gets her first item or two that she becomes a real problem.