Zed is the best assassin riot has ever designed by far

ChoGathsSon··9 votes·2,444 views

Zed has a lot of power invested into his kit, in the form of mobility, damage and safety in damage, much like many assassins. But compared to every other assassin in the game, Zed has counterplay to every part of his kit. He's hard countered by itemization, you can still keep his burst to a minimal by playing around his death mark (which admittedly isn't easy to do but it can be done) and he falls off late game and turns more into a split push role.

Meanwhile, basically every other assassin in the game is straight cancer. Reset assassins like Kha, Kat and even Yi (who plays much more like an assassin now, let's be honest), aren't fun to play against. Kha in particular is the most frustrating of the above because of his potential to heal during an all-in, stealth, mobility, extremely high single target damage and then the resets. At least Kat and Yi have to jump in the middle of a team to do their largest portion of damage whereas Kha just waits for any target to get low to pick them off and start flying around. Naturally all 3 are fantastic at cleaning up.

I shouldn't even have to explain leblanc or fizz.

Diana becomes as durable as a bruiser while dishing out assassin level damage. She does have some counterplay but most of that goes away when teamfights happen when it's literally impossible to miss any of her spells. She's a slightly better designed Akali but her design is still unfun as shit to play against but at least there's some form of counterplay there. Do I even need to explain Akali?

Rengar...lol. The only champion in history of league who got reworked into the same exact champion. He legit might be the most unfun assassin to play against and the most horribly designed of all of them. They just need to rework him into a bruiser. That's what they intended to do. It didn't work.

Talon is a lot healthier since his silence was removed, he's still a pain in the ass to play against and his gameplay is extremely binary but next to leblanc, he literally does nothing if he gets behind whereas most assassins have very good rebound potential (particularly reset assassins).

If I need to explain Kassadin, potentially the most nerfed champion in history, the only champion who has spent two seasons being completely perma banned, then you must be new. He is still good, despite his winrate because riot has turned him into an extremely powerful late game clean up assassin but his lane phase is very drawn out since his burst isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. But his design is still utter shit despite him probably being the most balanced he's ever been at the moment and when he gets items, there's still very little you can do to outplay him.

Of all these champions, zed has the most counterplay and his role diminishes as the game goes on while most of these champions, probably excluding Talon and Leblanc, become powerhouses late game in fights, sieges, skirmishes and the whole 9 yards. While he might be frustrating to play against and have snowball potential like any assassin, there's always a moment to outplay zed where his burst isn't instant, itemization hard counters him and he offers very little utility. And I'd argue of all the assassins, his clean up potential is the worst.

Downvote me to hell and back, it's true. I'd rather face zed at his strongest than literally any of the champions mentioned above at their strongest

35 Comments

Troy2426216 votes

Shaco: Highly positioning reliant, poor farming and is therefore kill reliant, very high skill ceiling, has a tun of meaningful counterplay. In my opinion, he's a lot healthier than Zed is.

I'm really tired of seeing Zed touted as the healthiest assassin design. He's really not. He's just not as abusive and stupidly designed as LeblancEkko Fizz. That doesn't make him good, nor does it make him healthy.

ChoGathsSon2 votes

{quoted}

Shaco: Highly positioning reliant, poor farming and is therefore kill reliant, very high skill ceiling, has a tun of meaningful counterplay. In my opinion, he's a lot healthier than Zed is.

I'm really tired of seeing Zed touted as the healthiest assassin design. He's really not. He's just not as abusive and stupidly designed as LeblancEkko Fizz. That doesn't make him good, nor does it make him healthy.

You said shaco was healthy

I can't even

I have no words

I'm done

Troy2426216 votes

{quoted}

You said shaco was healthy

I can't even

I have no words

I'm done

He is a healthy design. Care to use a logical argument to the contrary?

ChoGathsSon4 votes

{quoted}

He is a healthy design. Care to use a logical argument to the contrary?

No he's not, he's legitametely one of the worst designed champions ever. You have to play the game completely different and forfeit over and aggression in lane just because he exists. You can't ever take any sign of aggression by an enemy as an overstep because Shaco stealths in, and drops a box in front of you. Dead. You literally can't ward against him. Of all assassins, he is by far the absolute most binary champion and that's speaks to how horrible his design is, not the contrary. He's also one of the most frustrating junglers to jungle against because of his potential to ambush you and completely destroy you in your own jungle. Shaco is legitametely the most unfun jungler to play against, I'd rather have the enemy jungler be a Nunu, Eve or even Lee Sin with his AS slow back than deal with shaco. Shaco makes the entire game unfun to play because of his presence alone, while he has to consider positioning, he's actually relatively difficult to play well and kill dependent, that doesn't offset his menacing presence and the completely unfun nature his kit presents. There's a reason why riot has never buffed shaco and he's received nothing but nerfs.

DrCyanide3 votes

{quoted}

No he's not, he's legitametely one of the worst designed champions ever. You have to play the game completely different and forfeit over and aggression in lane just because he exists.

Read carefully fokes. When Shaco's on the other team, it's unreasonable to buy item 2043 and change where you ward. But when Zed is on the other team, it's completely reasonable to buy item 3140 or item 3157 .

What assassin in the game doesn't require you to change how you play?

You can't ever take any sign of aggression by an enemy as an overstep because Shaco stealths in, and drops a box in front of you. Dead.

Stop right there. You just said that if Shaco positions himself correctly, with the 2 seconds nessessary to set up his CC, you die. That's good assassin design! That's not an assassin that ignores your front line, instagibs the back line and gets out without any issues. That's an assassin that takes advantage of positioning mistakes.

Shaco makes the entire game unfun to play because of his presence alone, while he has to consider positioning, he's actually relatively difficult to play well and kill dependent, that doesn't offset his menacing presence and the completely unfun nature his kit presents.

Any fed assassin makes the game unfun to play. What specifically makes Shaco different?

There's a reason why riot has never buffed shaco and he's received nothing but nerfs.

His armor was buffed in 4.5, fear was changed in 4.2. Those were results of wider changes in the game, so lets ignore them.

Before that, his last nerf was 3.01, released Febuary 1, 2013, back when we went to the Ranked system we have today. Prior to that it's a mix of buffs and nerfs, same as any champion.

History does not seem to agree with you on this point.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

Read carefully fokes. When Shaco's on the other team, it's unreasonable to buy item 2043 and change where you ward. But when Zed is on the other team, it's completely reasonable to buy item 3140 or item 3157 .

What assassin in the game doesn't require you to change how you play?

Stop right there. You just said that if Shaco positions himself correctly, with the 2 seconds nessessary to set up his CC, you die. That's good assassin design! That's not an assassin that ignores your front line, instagibs the back line and gets out without any issues. That's an assassin that takes advantage of positioning mistakes.

Any fed assassin makes the game unfun to play. What specifically makes Shaco different?

His armor was buffed in 4.5, fear was changed in 4.2. Those were results of wider changes in the game, so lets ignore them.

Before that, his last nerf was 3.01, released Febuary 1, 2013, back when we went to the Ranked system we have today. Prior to that it's a mix of buffs and nerfs, same as any champion.

History does not seem to agree with you on this point.

It's still point and click cc. Point and click cc doesn't require skill. And he can fear multiple targets at once. At least when nocturne does it he's limited to only 1 person.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

{quoted}

Read carefully fokes. When Shaco's on the other team, it's unreasonable to buy item 2043 and change where you ward. But when Zed is on the other team, it's completely reasonable to buy item 3140 or item 3157 .

Right I should start the game with a pink Ward or red trinket upgrade which means Jack shit since shaco can stealth in from anywhere. The flaw in this logic is so enormously hilarious that I can't even be bothered to explain to you how stupid it is, it would just go above your head.

What assassin in the game doesn't require you to change how you play?

No assassin aside from Eve changes how I should approach lane phase, read enemy aggro and play the entire game because I cant Ward against them. At least with Eve she doesn't have CC the way shaco does. You're also comparing lane assassins to jungle assassins, which is another hilariously flawed argument.

Stop right there. You just said that if Shaco positions himself correctly, with the 2 seconds nessessary to set up his CC, you die. That's good assassin design! That's not an assassin that ignores your front line, instagibs the back line and gets out without any issues. That's an assassin that takes advantage of positioning mistakes.

It doesn't take that much skill to setup his positioning, consider the fact that you have 2 seconds to do it. And with that positioning, you know you can basically ignore Ward coverage and completely change the way everyone on the entire map has to play. One small mechanic that takes skill and correct timing and positioning doesn't justify an extremely unhealthy kit. Not to mention shaco impacts more than just lanes, he can completely terrorize your jungler as well. And that's just as frustrating and unhealthy of a style to play against.

Any fed assassin makes the game unfun to play. What specifically makes Shaco different?

Any fed champion in general can be like this, I fail to see your point. His gameplay is totally binary where he either stomps or does nothing, that isn't good design.

His armor was buffed in 4.5, fear was changed in 4.2. Those were results of wider changes in the game, so lets ignore them.

Global changes, yep

Before that, his last nerf was 3.01, released Febuary 1, 2013, back when we went to the Ranked system we have today. Prior to that it's a mix of buffs and nerfs, same as any champion.

History does not seem to agree with you on this point.

I'm curious, when was the last time shaco was directly buffed? Anything season 2 or before is completely irrelevant since riots entire champion design and balance philosophy has completely changed entire since then and riot has gone away from designs like shaco. Put it like this, in 3-4 years, shaco has not received ONE buff directly because riot knows how terrible his design is, which is why he's slated for a rework. History and statements made BY RIOT are completely on my side actually.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

He is a healthy design. Care to use a logical argument to the contrary?

The cooldown on stealth is way too short (it's only like 10 seconds). And he has fear. Fear is cancer in all forms. It's not even a skillshot cc (like Ahri's charm or Rengar or Kha'zix's slows).

jDVL20eCYs4 votes

zed is the most unfun champ to lane against and arguable the strongest landing phase of all assassins. probably also the best duelist:)

ChoGathsSon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ekko or feed,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xp9qtomQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-07-29T20:24:23.663+0000)

zed is the most unfun champ to lane against and arguable the strongest landing phase of all assassins. probably also the best duelist:)

youd rather lane against a leblanc? A fizz? Hell, even Talon gets out of control once he hits 5. And he's not the best dueling assassin anymore, your main took that role.

Vistha Kai1 votes

LeBlanc is shit if you have any amount of braincells when playing aganist her.

AtheosisX2 votes

I definitely would. With Zed you have pretty much zero chance to kill him unless the opponent messes up, and he has the easiest farming in the game. At least Leblanc and Fizz have issues with csing and pushing waves.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

{quoted}

I definitely would. With Zed you have pretty much zero chance to kill him unless the opponent messes up, and he has the easiest farming in the game. At least Leblanc and Fizz have issues with csing and pushing waves.

Zed is completely killable and while it's true his farm potential is better than Fizz and Leblanc, you can never really kill them unless they screw up because their escape spells are longer ranged and on basic abilities.

AtheosisX1 votes

None of them are killable in lane unless they mess up. It's one of the things I hate about assassins in general. Their mobility makes things too safe for them in lane. At least with Fizz and Leblanc they at least have to wrestle with farming issues.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

{quoted}

None of them are killable in lane unless they mess up. It's one of the things I hate about assassins in general. Their mobility makes things too safe for them in lane. At least with Fizz and Leblanc they at least have to wrestle with farming issues.

Fizz is also one of the best scaling assassins in the game and LB bullies way harder than Zed does. Her roaming and skirmish potential is much better.

AtheosisX1 votes

That's nonsense. Zed's roaming potential is actually better since he can clear waves so efficiently. And Fizz's scaling is nothing special.

jDVL20eCYs1 votes

fizz has the weakest lane phase pre 6 out of all champs except poopy. why he is not played mid in lcs cause he lane is to abusable

Enosetc2 votes

+1 high effort, high quality thread

ChoGathsSon2 votes

{quoted}

+1 high effort, high quality thread

Dude zed is seriously the trigger word here lol

Idk why Bronzeplay and Silverance QQ about zed, nobody in bronze/silver can play him effectively. Then again this is the elo where ADCs try to kill melees in melee range.

magic pole2 votes

+1 idk why down voted...you have a good argument

most likely they didn't even read it

Vistha Kai2 votes

That's what happens when you have the reputation of a troll.

ChoGathsSon3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xp9qtomQ,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-07-29T20:32:33.014+0000)

That's what happens when you have the reputation of a troll.

Who is trolling? I'm trolling because I don't hivemind to low elo QQ like 95% of this board section. Sorry the truth hurts.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Nobody would even bat an eye if that was the actual reason.

Hasztalan22 votes

Calling the assassin with the most overloaded kit , who is also happen to be a CertainlyTnoob's abomination as "best assassin ever created"? God my brain hurts.

SwapShadows1 votes

{quoted}

Calling the assassin with the most overloaded kit , who is also happen to be a CertainlyTnoob's abomination as "best assassin ever created"? God my brain hurts.

bronze detected

Sorioku1 votes

You can dodge his shit. QSS his ult. ZHonyas.

Though late game he does ridiculous amounts of damage but he's an assassin. HE KILLS PEOPLE.

Compared to Talon, Fizz, Leblanc who instaburst you in .5 seconds with point and clicks.

buster kiton1 votes

Khazix has the best desing when speaking of assassins.

Sure, his power budget has been stupid at some points, but his overall desing is best of all assassins by far. He "needs" to pick on targets that are alone, and if he fails his assassination he's not getting away.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=buster kiton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xp9qtomQ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-07-29T20:40:13.242+0000)

Khazix has the best desing when speaking of assassins.

Sure, his power budget has been stupid at some points, but his overall desing is best of all assassins by far. He "needs" to pick on targets that are alone, and if he fails his assassination he's not getting away.

It's not hard to pick those targets, not to mention its literally just press Q to delete them, fly away. Thats it. Nothing more. His entire gameplay was just summarized there.

buster kiton1 votes

Yeah, I don't mean his gameplay would be that different or somehow best of all assasins. But the desing behind it is better than on any other assassins, since he actually was meant to commit on an unprotected target, just like an assassin does.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=buster kiton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xp9qtomQ,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2015-07-29T20:55:16.912+0000)

Yeah, I don't mean his gameplay would be that different or somehow best of all assasins. But the desing behind it is better than on any other assassins, since he actually was meant to commit on an unprotected target, just like an assassin does.

That's not good design, it's too failsafe when he's good and complete shit when he's bad.

buster kiton1 votes

How do I put this into words so you'll understand....

Desing behind champion good, bringing it into gameplay not-so-good. His gameplay has aspects that I think COULD be tweaked to make him the best desinged assassin in the game, but so far his gameplay has not been tweaked in a way to do so.

Desing philosophy behind him is clearly "find a target that's alone, go all-in, get out if you succeed, die if you don't" just as assassins should be. How his gameplay has turned out to be has nothing to do with this.

WolfChases1 votes

Shut the potato up!!! The only healthy assassin in this game is Talon!!!

  • HIGH BURST
  • ALL IN
  • KILL OR BE KILLED
  • 1 misstake and you are DONE!

That's what an assassin should be.

magic pole1 votes

i agree, tho he seems to unload his whole combo almost instantly...thats the only issue i really see

WolfChases1 votes

Yes, but if he doesn't he'll get annihilated instantly without being able to do shit since he's almost as squishy as an ADC.

SwapShadows1 votes

It's quite amusing when 99% of the QQers of Zed are bronze/silver

He has the most counterplay out of any assassin, if you disagree then it's probably a big reason as to why you're stuck in lower elo.

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