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Delete the PBE, it's pointless now (Includes message to Riot)

LlamaSpeed··287 votes·8,865 views

Save your servers riot. obviously the PBE doesn't matter anymore... The PBE was supposed to be the public beta enviroment, but now, you should rename it to the TONCH (Try Out New Champions Here)

Why do i say this? because the PBE has lost its meaning, players who go on to actually provide feedback do not get the response they want Example? The new HUD, PBE testers knew the HUD was NOT ready for release, riot did it anyway...

Most "PBE" testers usually go on to try out new champions/visual updates/etc. Statistics show a huge spike of player log ins on the PBE when new content such as champions are released.

As for those who DO go on to provide genuine feedback, their feedback gets ignored, and shoved to the side...

Riot, you have build a very wonderful game, please do not destroy it by becoming too independent... I am not trying to be a cocky prick when i say this but you will always need the community to keep your game going, as much as you might hate to admit it, most of your decisions would be a million times better if you had only thoroughly considered our feedback.. Players are thinking about and already are quitting because of the mistake you've made releasing the new HUD... This is not the end, reverting things should be a breeze, i don't know why Riot has been slacking lately, but im sure you guys will get back on your feet

Aside from that, Love the new map, love the VISUALS on the gp update (Nothing more) along with MF. Thank you for building up this game, but please don't let it fall..

EDIT: Wow i kinda just vented when i made this post, I'm glad I'm not alone when i say this :) Thank you everyone

EDIT 2: I wish riot would respond to posts like this. I remember a while ago a Rioteer stated that Riot would only reply to professionally written posts. I believe I wrote in a professional and grammatically correct format, but i did not get a reply. I just want some clarification from riot that patch 5:14 was an honest mistake (To some).

122 Comments

Fadedpf76 votes

Riot is on some next level Tilt.

Hard Penetrator21 votes

At least admit that they are doing quite a bit things at once.

LCS is ending, Worlds are really close, we have new pirate event right after summer one, few remakes, new champion, while getting lots of skins and even 2 new items, new hud (that is disaster).

You call that tilt, I think it's just way too much way too fast.

OldDirtay5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hard Penetrator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xk3BwT1T,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-23T10:59:32.942+0000)

At least admit that they are doing quite a bit things at once.

LCS is ending, Worlds are really close, we have new pirate event right after summer one, few remakes, new champion, while getting lots of skins and even 2 new items, new hud (that is disaster).

You call that tilt, I think it's just way too much way too fast.

insert usual riot answer here each one of those has their own teams, people running worlds/lcs dont do balance etc

id call it tilt 100%, if the balance team is fkin up, they fkin up...it isnt because "worlds is coming soon, nor is it cuz lcs is ending"

seems the people driving these teams forgot about quality over quantity, it also seems over the last at least 2 years they started to give no fks what people think and release it anyway....but now its to the point everyone can disagree and it doesnt matter (do i need to link all the forums about the new hud and how people hate it and show that riot is doing nothing about it? or even hopping in a post and commenting?)

point being, id call it tilt when they stop givin a shit about what theyre doing

btw, i do and dont think they are doing to many things at once....i dont think so because there are teams for each one of those subjects listed so its not one team doing all those things but rather teams all doing their own projects...

i do think they are doing to much in the sense that, ill use cass as an example, they start projects....dont finish them...then start something else...this has been going on for awhile now and each one of these projects are piling up so it seems like they have alot to be doing....but.... as we can tell, like cass, they have projects going but dont work on them all....how long has cass not been touched since rework that most dont like? point and case

this could all be solved by "finishing what you started before moving on to the next"....if you had a garage and say 3 cars to work on....do you do bits and pieces or finish them?

Hard Penetrator4 votes

{quoted}

id call it tilt 100%, if the balance team is fkin up, they fkin up...it isnt because "worlds is coming soon, nor is it cuz lcs is ending"

While I do admit Balance team-community communication is lacking especially when most of constructing discussions are done via reddit not official forum (shame). I can't say they didn't fixing this game. After s5 start which was pretty much as bad as you can get I thought exactly same thing you are writting right now.

They can't ship bigger or more risky changes right now because they don't want to strain pro players. I also don't really think what balance changes are you talking about try to be more specific.

(do i need to link all the forums about the new hud and how people hate it and show that riot is doing nothing about it? or even hopping in a post and commenting?)

They addressed both Fiora VU and HUD on reddit, I don't know what are you talking about. They clearly talk this over with us.

i do think they are doing to much in the sense that, ill use cass as an example, they start projects....don't finish them...then start something else...

I can't argue with that. I don't play Cass so I can't talk about her remake but Veigar was in similar situation, it just ended up better.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

They addressed both Fiora VU and HUD on reddit, I don't know what are you talking about. They clearly talk this over with us.

. . .

on reddit

Hatless Casual3 votes

Makes one wonder why pay to haveand maintain your own forums when you ignore it in favor of a sub-reddit that costs you nothing.

MrButtermancer4 votes

Veigar's situation is not "better."

He's still a situational pick that could probably be replaced by more reliable mids. He's also miserable to play because what his opponent does in the second or two after Veigar uses his abilities is way more important than what Veigar did. There's too much delay. He has no defenses or mobility. He can't trade in lane. His scaling AP frankly doesn't matter if 70% of his damage regularly misses. And he has a passive that exists merely to make up for his old school mana costs.

I mained Veigar for over three years. He was my absolute favorite. Don't believe everything you hear, after the "rework," he is NOT healthy.

Hard Penetrator2 votes

Veigar is really inconsistent. Too large part of his performance rests on enemy team. Late game with enemies having lots of move speed, Zhonias, BV, Mikhaels, Merc Threads and QSS veigar feels pretty f bad. His W is actually useless till you blow some item cd's and that's really hard without your team engaging like monkeys every time your stun lands. If enemy can move, W feels like a trash for most of the time so you kinda rely on your team cc which is terrible.

Against squishies and medicore opponents he is fine.

O Fallen Scholar4 votes

{quoted}

Riot is on some next level Tilt.

Kinda. Well I don't remember them ignoring the playerbase that often back in S2 or S3.

TwitchInMyPants20 votes

"We payed people to work on it so its flawless and will not be changed until people complain about it rabidly and many quit the game... though we'll take 3 months to a year first and we won't actually respond to any constructive criticism."

TotN Titan18 votes

I haven't really seen a lot of "constructive criticism" about the new HUD, about the Fiora rework, about the AP itemization changes, about the AP jungle item, about the new Cottontail Fizz skin, or any of the other dozens of changes that Riot has been implementing this Season to make improvements on the future of their product. That is exactly what they are doing, though. They are seeing a vision of where they want this game a year down the line, or even 5 years down the line. They are not using short-sightedness to guide their vision into the future. The future for them is far further than the week it'll take for people to adjust to any new changes they make.

I see a lot of crying. I see a lot of "change X suck balls". I see a lot of "such and such is cancer". I see a lot of "Rito ruined the game, I quit". If you go into every decision they make with a knee-jerk, "Oh my god the sky is falling" mentality, you may as well pack up shop and find a different game. That's just like telling the guy in top lane after he's died a second time in 10 minutes "GG, we lose". Everyone talks about the "toxic community" in their games, but these boards aren't any less toxic and counter-productive some days.

Ultimately, this is Riot's product, a product that they want to be successful. They're not making choices within the game to ruin your life. They didn't look at their player base of their FREE TO PLAY game and say "we have too many people playing, let's get rid of a couple hundred thousand by making wholesale changes that will destroy what we built". They genuinely want to build something that lasts and you really have to have more faith in them than that. If you don't have that faith, don't invest your money into their product. If you don't have a belief that these employees want to keep their jobs and improve a great game, keep your money and invest it into something you do believe in.

Change isn't always good, but change is inevitable. Riot isn't ignoring people or dismissing your opinions when they move content from the PBE to live. They have cancelled several ideas that they have had after it hit the test phase and didn't work the way that they wanted it to. But I am willing to bet that as Riot employees, the Reds have been instructed by their bosses to not post anything in regards to new changes and these rampant flame posts that litter the boards. There's no reason to fuel the fire when the answer they give you as to why things change will never be the "Sorry, we'll change it back right away" answer that you all want. Instead, they'd rather let the community flame and attack them while they monitor and assess where they should be putting their resources in making the game better on the whole.

Every day, I look forward to seeing what new and exciting changes Riot has on the horizon for what this game could be. There isn't a single game out there right now that brings as much free content to their community. New champions, new game modes, and new events (like Shurima and Bilgewater) keep the game fresh and still FREE. Yes, they introduce elements of each event that can only be experienced through the purchase of real money, but much of the content you can experience without spending a single cent.

In the end, I have put plenty of money into this game. I have done so with little regret. It's better than spending full value on a game for my console and putting it up to collect dust a month later when I have finished it off. Instead, I have the ability to log in each day, interact with a generally fun community, and put my skills to the test in a very solid game. This is a game that from week to week, I never know what opportunity I might get to enjoy. Next week I might have to re-evaluate my item choices with a patch re-balancing my favorite champion's toolkit. Or maybe I get a chance to try out a new or reworked champion that becomes my new favorite. Maybe I'm just an optimist, but at the end of the day, I would much prefer to embrace the inevitable change of a game that has provided me over two years of challenging gaming fun and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

Binxy Prime1 votes

While I don't really agree with a lot of what you said I think you did do a very good job of explaining things from their side. I played a game on the new HUD and some things are switched for NO REASON. for instance they have a timer for the game in the upper right corner where KDA and cs used to be, that is now swapped with the timer. Why? It uses the same amount of space so my only guess is that they wanted people to look near the minimap for information more often so they would see the map itself?

The important info is so cramped into that corner, I just want to be able to quickly see my CS vs their CS so I can judge relative power. I want to be able to look at my teams health during a fight without going to the furthest corner away from the battle. maybe I'll get used to it but there is no reason they shouldn't have let us customize it and lock it to whatever locations we prefer.

HexaDecimel5 votes

Honestly the new Hud took me several matches to get use too. At first I had trouble noticing the map, seeing stats, and even using actives on my items. But that is just it, it was an adjustment. Just like getting a new champion and having to play a few matches to get the hang of them. Once I started to adj to the changes i really felt that the new hud was fine.

Now the argument can be made that they didn't need to change it and that it isn't an improvement over the old one. And that is a valid point, but change has always been apart of league of legends. I never really complain when one champion gets nerfed because it means another champion might get buffed or I might have to pick up a new champion, it forces me to adjust and improve. And I wonder if this Hud had been there since the beginning, would people really be that upset with it and threatening to leave the game.

In my opinion people aren't mad because the new Hud is actually terrible, they are upset because something they got use to was changed. I agree that the new Hud was a little jarring at first, and will take time to get accustomed to. But I think that at least some people are simply upset because they don't want to take the time to adjust to the change. And in doing so convince themselves that the Hud is terrible and Riot must be evil.

Slamurai Jack19 votes

Of course the PBE gets the most traffic when new content comes out, that's when you need bug testing the most. The whole point of the pbe is so Riot can collect as much data as possible on new content so they can fix as many bugs as possible before release. We don't need a wave of PBE players to test out how lowering a champions base damage by 10 affects the game.

Saianna8 votes

bug testing.. Yeah Azir (and many other champions) thanks PBE testers for that..

PBE is nothing more than give head ups for PROS on what will be OP in upcoming weeks so they can master it beforehand

  • skin infos on surrenderat20. Rest matters less than chips I ate like 15 years ago.
NinjaToad9913 votes

Actually, a lot of Azir's bug weren't because the testers didn't do anything. Most of the bugs weren't there until they transferred it to live. Because programing is weird.

Hawkefire5 votes

Spaghetti code is OP.

Xonra6 votes

{quoted}

Actually, a lot of Azir's bug weren't because the testers didn't do anything. Most of the bugs weren't there until they transferred it to live. Because programing is weird.

Not 100% true. Not 100% False. It wasn't a matter of the testers, because as I've said many times, we saw some of these bugs, reported them to Riot, and were ignored. Not all of them, but I would say even 1 is enough. It wasn't just a programming issue, it was a Riot ignoring feedback issue.

Retillin4 votes

Yeah this. I saw so many of the bugs posted on PBE. But Azir still went live, and those bugs popped up on live as well...

Xonra8 votes

{quoted}

bug testing.. Yeah Azir (and many other champions) thanks PBE testers for that..

PBE is nothing more than give head ups for PROS on what will be OP in upcoming weeks so they can master it beforehand

  • skin infos on surrenderat20. Rest matters less than chips I ate like 15 years ago.

Don't blame PBE testers for that b.s. We straight up told Riot. Go look at the threads from back when Azir was on the PBE, and you will find PLENTY of threads talking about the EXACT issues he went to live with.

Riot ignored us, because they wanted to push him out with the Shurima event. Then when he was released, they finally went "oh hey, problems" and all of us PBE testers facepalmed, and cared a little bit less the next time.

PBE should be more than testing new champs, but Riot cares so little to actually listen to feedback that most people (like me) have given up trying completely to give feedback. Hell I uninstalled the PBE from my comp because what is the point? Last thing I seriously tested was the leaverbuster system, and Lyte ignored half of what I gave as feedback (and many others too). So <_< just sayin'

Saianna2 votes

Yep, I know, check my second post somewhere under this 1 :)

Riots asslickers made sure to downvote me tho.

WhiskerWow6 votes

It finds a lot of bugs.

ApexInTheCircle25 votes

{quoted}

It finds a lot of bugs.

Tell that to Azir and Quinn

Neo Cyrus21 votes

They don't fix bugs that are reported unless they literally break the game. I reported a giant list of things the patch Quinn was released on the PBE. None of them were fixed.

FortuneDoesWeed4 votes

Syndra since year 1856

Troy2426218 votes

{quoted}

It finds a lot of bugs.

Azir

Xonra2 votes

{quoted}

It finds a lot of bugs.

Not as many as you would think.

You'd be surprised how many are posted about and still make it to live, only for Riot to...on the first damn day, act like they had no idea and start working on fixes.....for bugs we told them about for weeks, if not months.

Noam Braumsky4 votes

{quoted}

It finds a lot of bugs.

True. Fixing those, however, is another matter.

JimmyNtheKudos6 votes

Bugs they don't do anything about XD

iainB856 votes

Another thread where people don't understand the PBE is not for feedback, it's for catching critical bugs before code gets pushed to live.

If things are in PBE that means Riot has already made the choice, and pending something game breaking, or close to it, it will be pushed to live.

Remlap12233 votes

You really don't think Azir's bugs were gamebreaking on his release? Quinn's bugs may not have broken the game, but they made her completely unplayable so much so that she's still a buggy mess two and a half years later.

I have zero faith in the balance department. If they cannot even address the two and a half year old champion's longstanding bugs, they aren't doing their job. Might as well just shut the PBE down, because they truly have stopped listening to all feedback.

I don't think the new HUD is terrible, but it shouldn't have been released in its current state. Riot does not care.

iainB851 votes

No, those are not game breaking bugs. Game breaking bugs are like when cinderhulk was instantly killing everyone.

Those are unfortunate bugs for a single character that make their play unreliable. They in no way break the entire game experience for everyone playing.

Remlap12232 votes

Really? You don't think Azir two shotting towers was game breaking? Or Baron? What about Ashe's exploit that allowed her to give her teammates their ultimates on their auto attacks? Or Sion being able to stop mid-ultimate?

iainB852 votes

The only one I heard of out of any of those was Sion's ultimate -- but I know those champions were promptly disabled when the bugs were found.

I didn't say PBE catches 100% of the bugs, that is impossible in a game this large. It's there to act as a large testing ground to find as many as possible before the code goes live.

It's NOT there for the community to provide a bunch of feedback on upcoming changes and get things like buffs/nerfs or artwork changed like people seem to believe. That was my only point.

Owntrolf5 votes

PBE should just have like no champion restrictions, x5 gp okay tons of bugtest

Stackless Python5 votes

PBE Feedback: "The new HUD is small and hard to read, all the important information is hard to find among the rest". Riot: "Thanks you for reporting that you like the new HUD and that its size and information positioning is spot on, we will make sure it's NEVER changed ever".

Manwalrus4 votes

Not to mention Riot doesn't listen to feedback given anyway. (Karma, Elise, Sated Devourer, HUD etc.)

Dengeden4 votes

PBE is more for bugs and the like. A Rioter outright stated that it's a horrible form of feedback in terms of balance and satisfaction. And don't forget that they are listening to us about the Fiora VU.

Subject 53 votes

Riot is becoming like Google+ in the sense that they don't give a flying fuck if you don't like it, they will do it anyways.

Unless if you are Lee. You can't touch Lee.

Elise Lulu "We have tried to contest the blind monk. It did not work out very well."

gubigubi2 votes

In the PBE in draft mode you should not be able to ban champions that have changes coming through on the next patch. Why is that champion being banned it needs to be tested. There just needs to be a way to play draft mode and not have the new champion / reworked champion / nerfed / buffed champion banned.

UltraRammus2 votes

Digg used to be a thing... Reddit used to be a thing... Riot used to be a thing... Just go to twitch streaming and see what fun games there are to play, as for me this jungle change is too tough for a jungle tank, the jungle outscales you quickly, if people aren't capping kills you're SOL.

I'm off to twitch right meow to see what's good to play.

MeleeNuke2 votes

http://imgur.com/lbdgEH6

Sageace2 votes

PBE forums are indeed not always read but when it does come to trying out new champions or finding bugs, that appears to be their priority.

Erotic Terrorist2 votes

It feels like I'm the only one who likes the new hud ;~;

myCro2 votes

I like the HUD, is more awesome than the old one, more facile, wtf is wrong with ppl?! Is more space on screen, that tab screen may better have been a bit more work on it, but in rest only stupid ppl can complain about the new HUD make players play badder than with old one.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

The PBE isn't in place for players to whine and cry about changes. Riot crunches acutal, numerical data from it to help inform balance changes and fix bugs. Just because they don't listen to the vocal minority doesn't mean that they don't care about the player base. Let's not pretend like that's the case.

Champion Skin2 votes

Well I might have believed you... If this was before the patch witch "buffed"/compensated Veigar for the removal of DFG and the very well balanced Kassadin changes (which also came with that patch)

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Seen a lot of good Veigars. Fewer good kassadin's.

In Kass's case, I think he needs deeper changes. Kit is too polarized.

That discussion, though, doesn't change the fact that they DO look at numerical data as much as individual feedback.

Champion Skin1 votes

I don't think Kass or Veigar is that bad now I think they are mostly fine now... however that is after they have been buffed back up

Though that patch showed to me that Riot don't always seem to know what they are doing

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

On the contrary. Riot has a good operating procedure for this scenario.

Step 1: Make sure the champ isn't broken. Step 2: Buff to viability.

That's a GREAT way to do things. To expect that they will nail it on the first try every time is absolutely ridiculous. The older I get, the more I appreciate how difficult it is to make systems like this work. The only people I see that think it should be easy are people that are too young to appreciate what a real, live workplace looks like, and/or have never tried to create anything on their own.

Riot employees argue just as much as we argue here. It's a miracle this game works even half as well as it does. It's remarkably balanced, and the turnaround on realizing the flaws is very fast. I remember the days when games couldn't patch at all. This is much better. Trust me.

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