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Why exactly is Nidalee allowed to exist in her current state?

Franco Sanchez·2/5/2015, 4:35:05 PM·9 votes·1,272 views

I'm sure I'm not alone when I speak out against our "favorite" spear chucking cat lady. First, this may be an old video, but the points are still extremely relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2nq4KUBbi4

So what's wrong with Nidalee? She's got extremely frustrating gameplay patterns. Now, before the re-work, I was excited to see what they could do for her... Make her gameplay more revolve around actually going into and fighting with her Cougar form. And arguably enough, they did. They made her go into Cat form... Because they actually made her stronger. Her spear still deals ludicrous damage, but now she's got an extremely potent execute. Not to say that it didn't exist before, but it's so much more reliable, safer, and easier. And that could be fine, except Riot didnt't really address the issues with Nidalee. For reference, this is a copy of the patchnotes in which she was was updated.

http://www.newsoflegends.com/index.php/patch-4-10-notes-nidalee-skarner-rework-big-changes-to-life-steal-attack-speed-crit-items-nerfs-to-leblanc-and-twitch-football-skins-and-more-20170/

First, what are the frustrating points that were referenced in her update patch? Well, they were (in my opinion):

  • Extremely safe for the majority of the game.
  • Extremely potent, little counter-play pokes.
  • Very high sustain.
  • Her overloaded kit (Heal, AS buff, resist shreds, mobility, extreme poke, wave clear, and an execute).

Riot recognized this as a problem before. They realized after a lot of frustration that the gameplay was extremely anti-fun and quite toxic. They wanted to promote players utilizing her Cougar form more often and having different play patterns. The only difference between old Nidalee and reworked Nidalee is that instead of simply chucking spears till someone dies, and occasionally going in for the execute... It's now become toss spears till one lands, super pounce, execute. Her laning phase is still obnoxious. Her kiting and mobility is still obnoxious. Her spears are still obnoxious. Her sustain is still obnoxious.

Which got me thinking... Why exactly is Nidalee allowed to exist in a state like this? I mean, it's pretty much the same as it was before her rework. My thoughts? Because it's her identity. Unfortunately, so long as it's her "identity" there will be nothing healthy about her. If they just hit her numbers, she'll be lackluster and unplayable. If they allow her to exist in her current state, she'll be obnoxious and toxic for at least 50% of the players in a game. I think a rework is in order (again), and they need to seriously address the issues with her. They are still there, just in a slightly different package.

Now, how I would propose she gets fixed? Well, here are a few ideas.

  • Reduce the AP rates and range bonuses on her spear significantly. Give it a lower base damage and max out it's AP rate at .8. Finally, move the resists/armor shred (reduced) to her spear. It would allow her spears to still be impactful when hunting someone down, while also taking out some of the raw damage from a single spear.
  • Remove her heal for a different skill more befitting of a huntress. One that didn't add any extra damage so as to not overload her human form with a bunch of damage as well. Perhaps a shield or temporary armor/magic res buff.
  • Increase CD's on all cougar form skills.
  • Give her pounce a reset on champion kill.
  • Move her 30% MS buff to triggering her trap.
  • Change her "Hunted" to apply to only the first cougar ability used, rather than applying to all of them.
  • Remove the 33% damage buff from Take Down, and move the execute damage to the Hunted effect.
  • Give her Cougar form some of it's tankiness back.

These ideas are just some ideas I had off the top.

TL;DR: Nidalee's rework hasn't been effective in addressing her toxic play patterns, and arguably made them worse. In order to honestly get Nidalee to a good state, I think Riot needs to seriously reconsider what her identity should be, and more creative ways to implement it aside from an overloaded kit.

Though, I'm curious what you guys think? What would you propose be done with the Cat lady?

21 Comments

SwiftKitten882/5/2015, 8:19:31 PM2 votes

i main nid and i have mained fer since i started playing. she was the first champ i bought. and 99% of the changes done to nid i approve of. the the point your trying to make is just dont true though.. she isnt op.

i FREQUENTLY get very good KDA as nidalee and nid works really great when you rech endgame build. but there are drawbacks EVERYWHERE with her

nidalee, while having great farm in cougar form has utterly abysmal farm in human form and if she get any pressure by a lane oppoent it prevents her from farming in cougar from.

she also have very high burst potential but in order to DO the combo you NEED to land a spear or have an opponent stupid enough to walk over a trap after itsbeen on the ground for i think 2 seconds (you cant just set them under people and have them proc). and while landing a spear in bronze can be easy. at higher lvl where people dont stand still in front of creeps like noobs land a spear while the opponent has a creep wave can be very challening.

another great thing nid has is a heal. but becuase nid uses man every time you use heal you have less mana to scout with traps or throw spears

i main nid and i can tell you you need BOTH chalice and morlonomicon in order to have infite mana. she is VERY mana dependant and if you pressure her to use her heals she wont be able to throw much at you.

another huge drawback is the fact she need to get within melee range to do her combo. this means you cant start teamfights and it means 1 stun while your in range means certain death. also good luck on poucing in on somone like ahri who has the charm coming at your as your poucing in. and your dead as soon as you land

she is also HUGLY susceptible to silences. as it prevents her from changing or usign any abilties to attack or escape. that means no poucing over walls or healing or just poucing to gain more distance. if nid gets silenced by say "garen" she is as good as dead.

nidalee is very versitile but have many MANY weaknesses.

she also isnt very strong lastgame after your oppoents rech thier builds and relying on having MORE gold than her opponents to excel. a nidalee is very weak at max build compared to most other characters at max build

stight our calling for a nidalee nerf when she is FINALLY really viable in the game is stupid.

straight4free2/5/2015, 5:22:31 PM1 votes

I think that the change that needs to take place is that cooldowns for skills in one form only tick down while the champion is actually in that form. This way, if Nidalee pounces and transforms, next time she turns cougar she has to wait the full cooldown to jump.

chipi992/5/2015, 5:59:38 PM1 votes

I haven't seen a Nidalee lately, but when I have played against her I never thought "Oh she's op." She is strong just not op. Her spears hurt but you can just recall most characters that people use usually have a dash to get away from pounce.

iConcy2/5/2015, 6:07:17 PM1 votes

Buy banshee's veil, lol whats a Nid?

She's strong but she's far more counterable than you'd think. Use minions, buy a banshees, if you cc her once she's most likely going to get rocked - more so than other assassins.

I may be biased a big Nid fan, but playing her a lot makes you realize how not OP she is. By no means is she weak or UP - to be honest i hate the whole "jungle Nid" thing they made. That can use some changing specific to jungle monsters, but her laning and such doesn't need to be changed.

MrSc0tty2/5/2015, 7:47:56 PM1 votes

Because huge nuke skillshot, spammable dash that can jump walls, lcsbigplay$ potential.

Wînter Fox2/5/2015, 7:59:04 PM1 votes

Brb, trying out Nid jungle to help OP fully stack those item 3070 item 3070

SwiftKitten882/5/2015, 8:33:21 PM1 votes

first off im looking at your profile... and you main velcoz. who nidalee hardcounters. so of course she is going to beat you. you are a playing caster with no real stun a easily dodgeable abilties and no escape... and your complaining how your COUNTER is op...

dont pick velcoz into nid...

mvargus2/5/2015, 5:05:26 PM1 votes

I wasn't around when all this was discussed, but I do know that Nidalee's spear toss has one of the narrowest hit windows in LoL, and a large part of her utility requires that she start by hitting a spear toss. That's why she's not seen all the time. She's in many ways a very risky pick as many of her combos start with her having to land that rather inaccurate attack.

I have fought both against her and with her and I have yet to see a Nidalee dominate a game like some of the other champions can. She may be frustrating to fight because it becomes a game of "dodge the spears", but she's not broken.

Eribas2/5/2015, 9:21:34 PM1 votes

It would be nice if they matched degree of risk to reward, not just hoping for a lucky skill shot.