It's difficult to nerf marksmen to the point of being balanced

AgeOfTheMage·Oct 24, 2017·2 votes·272 views

due to the fact that their main source of damage(basic attacks) sure, there are a few rare occasions of balance, such as ezreal. Sure, riot could make marksmen deal a lot less damage, but they could be over nerfed and be useless, ex: (i still remember 6.13) it's just the fact that most of them, their main source of damage can't miss. so, how would you nerf marksmen? turn them into ad mages? let me know in the comments what you would do to make marksmen balanced.

5 Comments

VerxintOct 24, 20174 votes

The meta with Marksmen has always had a top 3 that make the others obsolete. This is because they are fundamentally all balanced on the same one-dimensional axis - how fast can I kill them with DPS before they get to me. The counterplay to marksman is "cc and focus it", which is ironic because Riot has explicitly said that's not a valid form of counterplay since it works on everyone.

But what this means from a practical sense is that you have a situation where the counters available for Tristana and Ashe are the same thing. If it's possible to cc and focus Tristana, then Ashe is unplayable. If Ashe is playable, it's impossible to CC and focus Tristana.

ShiznyteOct 24, 20171 votes

Only one marksmen IMO truely needs a nerf and that is Tristana . Her kit is over loaded, she is supposed to be a late game carry (which i have no problems with) but her early game is also pretty great. She has the most range at the end of the game and at the begining of the game sits at a clean 550 (standard range) other high range ADC's start at 500-525 Jinx KogMaw (excluding Cait) and their range increase is a skill that has some down time and costs mana. She has the best escape in the game with Rocket Jump being a 900 unit dash, and other mobile ADC's like Corki Lucian had their wings clipped (corki lost overall distance on his jump and lucian's cool downs were increased to prevent him from dashing to much) Trist has the furthest escape among the ADC's and has Multiple ways to recent this 900 unit jump. People talk about its "delay" but a good player knows about the Buffer it has that can pretty much negate any crowd control if use correctly. On top of the Jump she has a second escape which is Buster Shot and it has 600-1000 units of knock back depending on its rank, combine this with Rocket Jump and she is pretty untouchable. There are multiple ways to adjust Trist, if you want to make her less mobile change the distance of rocket jump and maybe only let it reset off assists like it use too, If you want to make her early game weaker you could have her range start at 500-525 and let it climb or Implement the mana cost back on her Q (not mana champions get a 30-100% attack steroid that costs 0 mana and can be used when ever... some have it as a passive but a passive has ramp up time trist just turns hers on.) In bad match ups she can shove anyone under turret and use minions to make her trades more favorable, and she doesn't have to worry about over extending due to the multiple escapes i mentioned before. Against weak laners she can just stomp them in lane with a Satchel charge and jump on them to reset jump and put out extreme damage while positioning effectively while looking for rocket jump resets. LCS casters on Worlds Desk have said on the record, "This Champion is Bustedddd and needs to be picked or banned every game!" (i believe it was Crumbs who said it first but almost all of them agreed) This is the ADC I feel needs to most work done because she doesn't have a clear weakness like the other Hyper carries / "standard" ADC's do, and when I think of her downside the only thing i can come up with is she can only attack one target at a time, but with her range she can sit back and slaughter what ever is in front of her and work her way up, or just jump in with divers to kill a back line and get resets to deal with the rest.

Pokemonred200Oct 24, 20171 votes

I mean, she's had these things for almost two years know. I don't think it's Tristana herself that's the problems right now, but rather, changes to the game that caused the meta to shift in her favor.The champions building Lethality before ( MissFortune Varus Lucian Jhin ) had been nerfed directly for the most part, the item those champions abused ( item 3147 ) was nerfed, and the the items she built before ( item 3031 and item 3094 ) were buffed.

The buffs to item 3087 caused it to replace her previous item 3085 build (which I didn't completely understand, aside from the fact that her E passive is apparently applied on the bolts), which caused her to spike MUCH faster than she was meant to, as is the case with other champions who can afford to get it early. With item 3504 having become meta, all of these things combined basically set up the meta perfectly in Tristana 's favor, and I'm fairly certain that if Lethality gets buffed again or after nerfs to the items making her strong (or if both of these things happen), she, along with quote a lot of other marksmen, would all be in a spot that seems fair.

ShiznyteOct 24, 20171 votes

I really think people may have just underestimated her. I've played her quite a bit and I think Her mobility is insane combined with her range and ult she is pretty much untouchable. Most high range ADC's have very limited mobility Ashe Jinx Jhin KogMaw Twitch Varus and most mobile ADC's have limited range Vayne Kalista Lucian . Now ill readily admit ADC is my worst Role in order its Support / Jungle / Mid / Top / ADC but i have always been able to pick up Trist and find success (i have about 3-5 solid picks in each roll and when i play ranked i check Fill) I prefer to play Draven because I find him more fun, but if a comp says hey Draven were gonna kill you Ill fall back on Trist and still have a good impact on the game. Ardent got nerfed and she is still great, im not gonna say ardent wasn't a problem but at some point when Professional Analysts Admit shes busted, and you play enough games VS Trist from all rolls to see what she can do... IDK its sorta obvious to me that something is up with this Champion. Shes got the best of both worlds in terms of Range and Mobility, she has great siege potential, And has a great early game combined with an even better late game! Overall to me she is clearly the best ADC you can pick right now the only thing i notice that can stop her consistently is a 3-4 item Twitch, who surprises her with Spray and pray, but even then she can just knock him back and jump away and with no Ult Twitch is pretty average at best. I think her biggest down side is she is pretty boring to play early on but boring doesn't mean weak I don't want that to be confused!