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HateDaddy's pro as heck guide to understand Zed: his strengths, weaknesses and counterplay

ChoGathsSon··35 votes·3,082 views

Hi there friends, your General Discussion Overlord HateDaddy here!

Now I realize this is confusing, you must be saying to yourself "wtf 2 Shens? That's not hatedaddy, that name is ChoGathsSon." Allow me to explain my fellow summoners! You see, the last few days my demeanor has been rather confrontational and hostile. As a result, I may have gone a little overboard and Riot decided to step in and ban my main from the forums for 7 days. Alas, my troubled frame of mind was due to the fact someone stole my Transformers Walkie Talkie. I've since found it and I've changed my perspective and have decided to improve my attitude. I am here to kill you with kindness!

Now, we move onto the guide that will teach you how to deal with this Ionian stupid idiot Zed, I swear to god he's a rip off of Lord Zed from power rangers but riot might ban me for pointing this out. Yolo. But before beginning, please listen to this stimulating track on loop to help you focus on reading such a pro as heck guide:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Me3t0JbNz_4

So friends, what is Zed? Zed is an energy based melee assassin with mobile tools and skill shots aimed to help him kill targets quickly. You might have known this already, maybe not. Quite frankly all of the energy champs appear to have Ionian ties but let's be real, in a few patches all of Ionia is just going to be retconed to Frejlord or Shurima. But that's besides the point. Rip lore. Back on topic....

Before we get into weaknesses, let's start talking about his strengths. Early on, Zeds energy actually hold back his all-in potential (minus not having death Mark available obviously). So his early lane phase is going to focus on tossing out some Qs, using his W to extend his range and toss out Q/Es and otherwise just poke/farm. Post 6, he will still play this style until he's comfortable enough with the prospect of going all-in on you. Once he gets some items, he's an exceptional duelist against a variety of different classes. He can kill squishy targets relatively quickly, because of his passive plus his itemization, he's also very effective at dueling tanks. Simply put, Zed is a champion aimed at catching single targets out, dueling in split push scenarios and like any champion in this game, snowballing. He's also a strong auto attack based champions as well because of his item pathing (think Botrk and Ghostblade here for increased DPS) as well as his passive. While many AD casters still have umph behind their auto attacks because of AD, keep in mind Zed and his normal build path and passive give him incredibly strong DPS with auto attacks alone.

We've covered his strengths on a basic level. Let's get to his weaknesses.

Believe it or not, Zed is actually relatively weak at early levels. His energy costs restrict him from spamming his full combo without leaving himself as a sitting duck. He's level dependent like any caster and this is the biggest thing you have to keep in mind, he is a melee champion in a lane that is dominated by ranged champions. His living shadow is very good at closing the gap, but it's not a good idea early on to ever shadow into melee range of an enemy and start auto attacking them - minion aggro alone will slaughter you. So the majority of his damage in lane will come through Qs and Es from his shadow form. Stand away from his shadow to avoid taking Es and look to dodge Qs. Nobody is perfect, you won't dodge every skill shot but he shouldn't either. Unless he's scripting. Wait a minute, has riot acknowledged that yet? Point is this, early laning for Zed is basically poke oriented and like any champ in any circumstance, if you take too much poke and are low, he will go in to kill you if the situation allows it.

Level 6, not unlike most champions, his play style slightly changes. Without anything other than a long sword, he should not be able to 100-0 you with his R. In fact, in order to do that, you'd basically need to allow him to auto attack you several times after using death Mark. Point is, the less damage you take after he's used his R, the less damage the pop is going to do (again think of his passive here). In many cases, unless you can just straight up blow him up when he jumps on you (old Syndra comes to mind), you want to run away from him as he jumps on you. If you're a champion with mobility, wait for him to reappear after casting the death mark then use your mobility spell (there's a good chance he uses W to catch you but at this point, he can't slow you unles she HS cutless and you should be relatively close to tower). If you survive above half health, he is prone to dying because death Mark is his all power.

Typically, if you fear your all-in is weaker than Zeds, taking Exhaust as a summoner spell is not a bad idea. Barrier isn't either, I'd advise only taking that on champions with shields who can amplify the power of barrier like Orianna or Karma. Also, as an immobile mage, this is a build you should consider that I've watched work very effectively and was suggested by a good friend of mine, Charles Barklius (dudes master tier, I'd listen)

item 1056 item 1056 start item 3191 next item item 3165 then finish this

This path gives you everything you want: flexibility, a mixture of durability, damage, utility and CDR. If you're doing extremely well, you could probably skip the Morellos and go straight into Zhonyas. If you're playing it safe and desire the mana regen and CDR, Morellos is the way to go. With this build, so long as you don't die early on (and frankly you shouldn't unless getting camped), this build allows you the durability to survive his all in until you can complete Zhonyas or if you feel you're strong enough, win duels against him.

Late game, Zeds teamfight actually becomes very lackluster. That sounds kind of crazy, right? Let me explain. Yes, he's mobile. Yes he has tools to get in and out. But watch competitive play. QSS and Zhonyas make it impossible for Zed to kill carries in teamfights. It's why they elect to split push. Anyway you slice it, if your ADC sticks with it's front line and support has Exhaust ready, there's no way a Zed should ever kill an ADC with Qs/Es and AAs alone (I'm saying this knowing QSS is used to remove death mark). When Zed jumps in, exhaust him and apply CC and he will be forced to jump out and retreat with no death mark (and now very little teamfight power) or try to kill a carry through peel which shouldn't happen: he should explode on contact. I know its not always this black and white and nothing is because comps are different and strategies vary as a result. But this general approach is very effective at dealing with him and the proof is really in the pudding here quite frankly. Just watch pro games and high elo streams. The only way Zed teamfights well is if he's snowballing out of control; something that applies to every champion, not just zed.

Does that make sense? I'm hoping this helps now that I've given you a more serious (well satire look) perspective on how to deal with him. I will now proceed to the Q and A segment!

Q: "HateDaddy, Zed always kills me, how do I stop dying to him??"

A: well little Timmy, quit eating Qs and respect his Shadow Q/E. If he is using shadow to harass every time it's available, call for a GANK as well. He has no form of natural escape when using his W this way!

Q "But HateDaddy, why do I have to build Armor against zed as a mage? I should always be able to rush chalice no matter what!"

A: well little Bobby, MAGES have what I like to call first world problems. They have the most overpowered, erm, best itemization in the game that allows them to have both offense and defense as well as utility in their items. Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

Q: "but HateDaddy, Sona needs buffs badly"

A: Blood Vessel pops in left eye; forces a grin go play in traffic

Q "thanks HateDaddy, this was a great guide and it helped me! You're such a swell guy!"

A: well thanks little Ricky, anything for the children.

This concludes this guide. If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to follow up and ask them or express them here. I can't promise I'll respond as fast as possible, but I'll keep my eye on this and respond when I can. Thanks again friends.

66 Comments

LifeCyclesTWA10 votes

Who would downrate this guide lol?

Its like people can't accept the fact Zed has glaring weaknesses in addition to his obvious strengths.

Great guide, btw. QSS > Zed. I like playing against Zed mid as Talon or Pantheon, Talon's burst is quicker than Zed's and I rush item 3139 in that matchup.

disregardable14 votes

It's Hatedaddy, he could post "hi" and get 10 downvotes.

ChoGathsSon4 votes

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XgEZErfp,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-04-29T02:05:04.147+0000)

It's Hatedaddy, he could post "hi" and get 10 downvotes.

Depending on the board section, it could easily be 10 upvotes friend! I am very polarizing.

SlytherinUmbreon2 votes

His name is very fitting, it seems

ChoGathsSon8 votes

{quoted}

His name is very fitting, it seems

HateDaddy or ChoGathSon? I really hope ChoGathSon isn't fitting, that'd be pretty disturbing.

ChoGathsSon5 votes

{quoted}

Who would downrate this guide lol?

Its like people can't accept the fact Zed has glaring weaknesses in addition to his obvious strengths.

Great guide, btw. QSS > Zed. I like playing against Zed mid as Talon or Pantheon, Talon's burst is quicker than Zed's and I rush item 3139 in that matchup.

Well there's that and there's picks that are naturally skill based. Ahri comes to mind because of her ult. Kassadin, believe it or not, can even do well in that match up (though it does favor Zed just because Kassadin is naturally stronger vs magic damage). In general, Zed has a lot of counterplay and decision points. He's also truly the healthiest assassin riot has ever designed.

mi ramfan2 votes

Rushing Merc Scimitar to deal with Zed seems like a pretty poor decision given that QSS gives you literally nothing except canceling Zed's ult against Zed (it gives no armor so you're getting eaten alive by poke) and if you go BF sword first there's no way you finish Mercurial before the laning phase is over.

I mean, there are ways to counterbuild Zed (like building armor or taking exhaust) but Mercurial Scimitar is a hilariously inefficient way of doing so that I wouldn't recommend to anyone on any champion.

Mooing Kev1 votes

you don't rush qss to counter zed early. It's for late game where zeds death mark does almost 1k dmge with simply an auto E bork and maybe a q. Early game you should not be roaming by yourself as an adc,have some decent ward cover/mia calls from midlaner and have your support supporting you.

mi ramfan1 votes

He was referring to going Mercurial Scimitar first as Talon/Pantheon mid against Zed, which I think we can both agree is hilariously inefficient.

I still wouldn't go Scimitar against Zed even if I was ADC in late game. Would rather get Bloodthirster shield (if I don't already have it), Randuin's Omen (helps against everyone, not just Zed), or Guardian Angel in that situation.

thinking man2 votes

{quoted}

Who would downrate this guide lol?

Its like people can't accept the fact Zed has glaring weaknesses in addition to his obvious strengths.

Great guide, btw. QSS > Zed. I like playing against Zed mid as Talon or Pantheon, Talon's burst is quicker than Zed's and I rush item 3139 in that matchup.

You don't need QSS or Merc Scim until late-game since his ult proc won't do more than a 1/4th at best (if you take 3 Shurikens, which you'd be dead for anyways) until he's level 16. It's not cutting out that much useful damage, basically.

Lugg5 votes

I'm sorry, but I am going to have to correct a few things on weaknesses.

First, yes he is "relatively" weak at early levels. But let's put that in perspective. It is relative only compared to Zed's later game. Compared to all the other champions in the game, he is pretty solid early. That is why he is able to poke people out of lane since he has infinite sustain due to being an energy champion. He only has to EVER go back is if he gets low on health, or wants to buy all stuff with the huge amount of gold he has since he poked out the other laner and had free farm for half of the first 10 minutes. He then uses that item advantage to all in at 6 and get the huge snowball going.

I like how you say you must "run away from him" when he ults. Problem is, you can't. He stays with you as long as Death mark is initially procing and then he uses his shadow to stay with you. So you don't get to run away, at all, and you die.

Once you do get QSS or hourglass, you can actually start to counter Zed. Unfortunately, by the time you have the money to get that, Zed has 10+ kills on your team and just kills you without having to ult at all since he snowballs so hard.

In teamfights, Zed still cleans up like a janitor and deletes your carry once their QSS is on CD since his ult comes up so quickly.

So the weakness section should have really looked like this:

Weakness "None, if the player is a great Zed player"

ChoGathsSon4 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry, but I am going to have to correct a few things on weaknesses.

First, yes he is "relatively" weak at early levels. But let's put that in perspective. It is relative only compared to Zed's later game. Compared to all the other champions in the game, he is pretty solid early. That is why he is able to poke people out of lane since he has infinite sustain due to being an energy champion. He only has to EVER go back is if he gets low on health, or wants to buy all stuff with the huge amount of gold he has since he poked out the other laner and had free farm for half of the first 10 minutes. He then uses that item advantage to all in at 6 and get the huge snowball going.

I like how you say you must "run away from him" when he ults. Problem is, you can't. He stays with you as long as Death mark is initially procing and then he uses his shadow to stay with you. So you don't get to run away, at all, and you die.

Once you do get QSS or hourglass, you can actually start to counter Zed. Unfortunately, by the time you have the money to get that, Zed has 10+ kills on your team and just kills you without having to ult at all since he snowballs so hard.

In teamfights, Zed still cleans up like a janitor and deletes your carry once their QSS is on CD since his ult comes up so quickly.

So the weakness section should have really looked like this:

Weakness "None, if the player is a great Zed player"

I can counter your entire post with:

Several weaknesses, if the person playing against Zed isn't terrible and knows how to play against him.

I can do this too you know.

Your points are actually pretty terrible. You shouldn't constantly eat zed Qs during early lane. And if he's using W to extend his range, you can easily just a walk away from his shadow and take advantage of your range as a ranged champion. You bring up poke as if Zed himself is immune to it, for some reason that mindset is a thing. I don't know why.

When Zed uses death mark, you use your mobility spell as soon as he appears on top of you again if you're mobile. He uses W to continue chasing but has no way of sticking to you now. He uses flash? You use flash. Unless ungodly fed, he shouldn't 100-0 you under those circumstances. If you're immobile, it's a bit more complicated than that and becomes more champion specific. Either way, level 6 shouldn't be an INSTA kill and he shouldn't be snowballing for that many kills of you itemize properly.

His clean up as an assassin is actually pretty average. LeBlanc, Kassadin, Talon are far superior because of point and click gap closers or more spammable mobility and not depending on one large ability to 100-0 an enemy squishy.

It's like you literally didn't read anything I say or at least take it into consideration. And if that's the case and we are basing this on whose word is more likely to be correct, it's mine because I'm not bronze V like you are (my main is plat 1; check it out: HateDaddy). I gave constructive points that can be considered and taken into account and you kind of just whipped it back in my face with nothing but anecdotal examples from your personal experience. And again, bronze V. Sorry.

Lugg4 votes

I like that you say I literally didn't read anything you wrote even though I went paragraph by paragraph in my comment. My reply was slightly tongue in cheek, but addresses a lot of the concerns a LOT of people have when playing against a Zed.

You don't have to constantly eat Qs. Zed is manaless, he can spam them forever and throws 2 of them when using his shadow so you have even less chance of dodging one. He will eventually whittle you down. Yes, you can poke him down from long range as well, but the longer the range is, the easier it usually is for Zed to dodge it. So trading with him definitely isn't easy.

There are only a handful of champions in the game that have the mobility to outrun his ultimate. Everyone else is pretty much screwed.

I will agree with you that his clean up is pretty standard for assassins, but assassins are way above the average for champions in the game due to the very nature of what they do.

Your article is good and I am going to try that early item build on my mages against him. But the biggest problem is that if you go even in lane or get slightly ahead, any smart Zed player then roams to another lane gets a kill and then you are behind again. That is what makes him such a toxic champion.

As a final note, even though this account is Bronze V, that shouldn't automatically discount my comments. I have played plenty of games with and against Diamond and Plat players and held my own. I also watch a lot of LCS games and see what the pros do as well.

ChoGathsSon2 votes

{quoted}

I like that you say I literally didn't read anything you wrote even though I went paragraph by paragraph in my comment. My reply was slightly tongue in cheek, but addresses a lot of the concerns a LOT of people have when playing against a Zed.

I said you either didn't read it or acknowledge it, there's a difference. The things people complain about regarding Zed are pretty stupid. Riot agrees. Zed has 1 spell with extended range, his mobility is tied into a spell that can help his range or close the gap. Anytime you use a gap closer into an enemy champion, it's actually a big risk believe it or not. And if he doesn't use it to gap close and just to poke with Q/E, hes vulnerable to poke, being ganked and so on when his W is down. And you can simply stand away from his shadow form. Again, there's room to play around him every step of the way. People refuse to acknowledge this because most players are bad. Sorry, but it's true. The truth hurts. Want to know how I'm right? Riot hasn't nerfed Zed.

You don't have to constantly eat Qs. Zed is manaless, he can spam them forever and throws 2 of them when using his shadow so you have even less chance of dodging one. He will eventually whittle you down. Yes, you can poke him down from long range as well, but the longer the range is, the easier it usually is for Zed to dodge it. So trading with him definitely isn't easy.

And believe it or not, likewise, it isn't easy for Zed to trade. Yes he's manaless, but as I suggested above, double dorans (which I didn't initially put 2, I meant to) gives you good mana regen and HP + morellos mana regen. What Zed lacks in mana costs, he is awarded more damage. He isn't awarded any real utility or durability in the form of shield or heals (think Karma, Cho etc) like many mages are. This is the epitome of a skill-match up in many cases, which in riot's mind and many people with a healthy perspective on game balance, is a great thing for this game. Not the opposite.

There are only a handful of champions in the game that have the mobility to outrun his ultimate. Everyone else is pretty much screwed.

And for those champions, getting an early armguard + double dorans is the best way to go. They also have range and the burden is on Zed to gap close to them, so in many cases, positioning is a big deal. If Zed isn't stupid fed through bad play by his opponent, he isn't going to 100-0 his enemy mid game. It's just not going to happen, sorry.

I will agree with you that his clean up is pretty standard for assassins, but assassins are way above the average for champions in the game due to the very nature of what they do.

Yes, there's nothing to discuss here. This is one of their strengths and he's not even the best. Moving on.

Your article is good and I am going to try that early item build on my mages against him. But the biggest problem is that if you go even in lane or get slightly ahead, any smart Zed player then roams to another lane gets a kill and then you are behind again. That is what makes him such a toxic champion.

Any mage with this build should be out-shoving him because his waveclear isn't nearly as good. Champions will roam, you shove him in and take it upon yourself to roam first. A champion with the capacity to roam doesn't make them toxic because if that's you define as toxic, it's time to delete every champion in this game. Zed's roams aren't even that great for a mid laner. Mage's roams are far more terrifying because of how much stronger they are in skirmishes with AoE etc. Zed is just good at picking off a target and leaving, that's his design. And it's far from toxic.

As a final note, even though this account is Bronze V, that shouldn't automatically discount my comments. I have played plenty of games with and against Diamond and Plat players and held my own. I also watch a lot of LCS games and see what the pros do as well.

It doesn't discount your comments. But if we're going to base this on sheer experience of the player, diamond/plat > bronze. Many bronze players lack a good understanding of this game because the level they play at is pretty terrible. Compared to higher level play, where the game picks up and many things are very different, they have better perspective. As a result, they likely understand champion balance a bit better due to having more general game knowledge. That said, being plat/diamond doesn't automatically make you better at arguing, discussing and breaking down points - just better insight on the topic at hand. I'm not going to dismiss you, but I am going to tell you that in most cases, higher elo knowledge trumps lower elo knowledge in both understanding of balance and gameplay. I don't mean to come off as elitist, offensive or flat out mean but that is the cold hard truth.

Dystopiac1 votes

Dont bother replying to these "ZED OP"posts.People seem to forget that,you know,having the standard 550-600 ranged autos and plonking any melee champ with one or two of these when they come to last hit is,kind of,a colossal counterplay ranged have over melee.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

{quoted}

Dont bother replying to these "ZED OP"posts.People seem to forget that,you know,having the standard 550-600 ranged autos and plonking any melee champ with one or two of these when they come to last hit is,kind of,a colossal counterplay ranged have over melee.

ya I know

Most of them are just downvote spamming because they're mad at this point

"I know you're right and I can't say anything so I'm mad because the truth hurts! -1"

Lugg1 votes

Yeah, Riot hasn't nerfed Zed for the same reason they haven't nerfed Lee Sin. They love having the pros make these ridiculous plays. It's great for viewing, but not for balance in the game. Riot has pretty much admitted this. Not to mention that there is an article you can look up online where the pro players flat out state that Zed is OP.

I totally agree with you that Zed has pretty much zero utility. He is completely focused on deleting other champions from the game and does it extremely well.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Riot hasn't nerfed Zed for the same reason they haven't nerfed Lee Sin. They love having the pros make these ridiculous plays. It's great for viewing, but not for balance in the game. Riot has pretty much admitted this. Not to mention that there is an article you can look up online where the pro players flat out state that Zed is OP.

I totally agree with you that Zed has pretty much zero utility. He is completely focused on deleting other champions from the game and does it extremely well.

Show me the article then

Zed was definitely OP at one point for reference. But now? No. Same applies to Lee.

Lugg1 votes

http://www.themittani.com/news/lol-pros-agree-zeds-op

The only nerf Zed has had since this article was the joke one on his attack speed that happened this season.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

{quoted}

http://www.themittani.com/news/lol-pros-agree-zeds-op

The only nerf Zed has had since this article was the joke one on his attack speed that happened this season.

Lmao. That was an article written about zed on s3 worlds, TWO YEARS AGO. There's a lot wrong with it. I don't recognize the writer for starters, which doesn't mean he isn't a known writer or good one for that matter. Nowhere in it does it cite anything about pros saying Zed is/was op and if it did, IT WAS TWO SEASONS AGO WHERE A SHIT TON OF THINGS HAVE CHANGED.

It's also worth nothing, since you say Zed hasn't had any nerfs since then aside from his attack speed nerf, that s3 worlds was played on 3.11. That article was written reflecting upon Zeds state in s3. In 3.13, two patches later, Zeds W missile speed was nerfed which was a big deal. Not to mention his ult had some changes back and forth in s4. So yes, since that article was written, he has been nerfed. Not to mention, the opinions expressed in that article are about Zed of s3, not now or even recently. A lot of things have changed regarding him directly and indirectly - you can't even compare them. Even if zed had no direct changes since then, there's constantly indirect buffs and nerfs that take place accordingly due to itemization changes, champion changes, new champions, mechanical gameplay changes and so on.

So to sum it up, that's a terrible example and isn't even relevant. You're going to have to do better than that.

Lugg1 votes

Uh, it was at the END of season 3 . So it was just 1 1/2 years ago. There has been no significant nerf to Zed in that time. The changes to Zed's ult in season 4 was actually a buff. So it is still COMPLETELY relevant.

I just think you are one of those people who A) can't ever admit to being wrong or B) are a Zed main and don't want any balance since you would have to rely on skill, not an OP champ.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

{quoted}

Uh, it was at the END of season 3 . So it was just 1 1/2 years ago. There has been no significant nerf to Zed in that time. The changes to Zed's ult in season 4 was actually a buff. So it is still COMPLETELY relevant.

I just think you are one of those people who A) can't ever admit to being wrong or B) are a Zed main and don't want any balance since you would have to rely on skill, not an OP champ.

Except I'm not wrong because there has been a change, his W nerfed. And you totally ignored what I said about how much changes apply to him indirectly in that time, which a year and a half is still an enternity in gaming. And I'm not a Zed main. And I can admit I'm wrong, you just don't know when to quit.

Slamurai Jack5 votes

Considering these boards, I honestly expected a guide that said the following:

Strengths: Everything Weaknesses: Being banned Counterplay: None

Thank you for actually putting together useful information and not contributing to the ridiculous Zed circlejerk.

PubgamerAU4 votes

A: well little Timmy, quit eating Qs and respect his Shadow Q/E. If he is using shadow to harass every time it's available, call for a GANK as well. He has no form of natural escape when using his W this way!

That's right. Rely on your team in solo queue!

The rest of your FAQ is dribble.

Question for you: If Zed is so weak, why does he have a 70% win rate over 37 games in the NA LCS?

People complain about the "Tank Meta" when Zed has a higher win rate than every single tank in the game in the NA LCS. Hell, if you remove champions with less than 5 games played in the LCS, Zed has the 5th highest win rate of the entire split behind Lissandra, Nidalee, Rumble, and Morgana. The only reason I'm using the NA LCS is because the EU LCS champion stats page seems broken and isn't showing properly. I do remember from doing some research a month or two back that the EU LCS was even worse.

ChoGathsSon2 votes

{quoted}

That's right. Rely on your team in solo queue!

The rest of your FAQ is dribble.

A pretty big part of winning solo queue games is not only knowing how to help your teammates but receive help from them accordingly. If you can't play to perform well in 5v5 scenarios, then you're probably going to stay in silver forever.

PubgamerAU5 votes

I think you're missing the point. You're about as likely to get help from your jungler in solo queue as you are surviving a fall out of an airplane at 20,000ft without any safety device.

The Jungler's Mantra: Ganks are a luxury, not a requirement.

ChoGathsSon2 votes

{quoted}

I think you're missing the point. You're about as likely to get help from your jungler in solo queue as you are surviving a fall out of an airplane at 20,000ft without any safety device.

The Jungler's Mantra: Ganks are a luxury, not a requirement.

I said thats one of the many things you could do. When his W is down, he himself is prone to poke and even all-ins if he's low.

PubgamerAU6 votes

So all he has to do is save his W, spam his Q at you until you're at half health, forcing you into the impossible situation of dodge or die that many people complain about when talking about Nidalee, then ult and all in you the moment you hit 50% health, because all his abilities and auto's deal a huge amount of increased damage and can drop you to below 10% health before you're even targetted by the enemy.

ChoGathsSon4 votes

{quoted}

So all he has to do is save his W, spam his Q at you until you're at half health

If all he is doing is spamming his Q, you have a much easier time dealing with him than most long range champions as they'll have 2-3 abilities that are 900+ range. I have no idea why you think Zed is the only champion with a long range ability + mobility.

forcing you into the impossible situation of dodge or die

This is mid lane in a nutshell in skill-shot match-ups. This isn't just Zed. So why is this a problem with Zed, with only one long range poke ability, when it's not for Jayce? For Kassadin? Corki mid? Because they have long range poke on more than one spell and have mobility as well to go in and execute a target

people complain about when talking about Nidalee

Nidalee mid is garbage at the moment, she's only really good more or less as a jungler. And even then, she's not that great because of the tank meta and recent nerfs.

then ult and all in you the moment you hit 50% health

Again, any champion 50% or below is prone to being killed in an all-in with burst combos, etc. Lux has you at 50%? One snare. Death. Why do you neglect to complain about Lux then?

because all his abilities and auto's deal a huge amount of increased damage and can drop you to below 10% health before you're even targetted by the enemy.

He also has to be in melee range to do AA damage. Yes, he can kill you. Oh my god! Shocker of the century! A champion can kill another champion, what the fuck!!! This is league of legends, welcome to a game where getting poked 50% or below could have you end up dying in the next rotation of spells by the enemy champion. This isn't only specific to Zed and there are several champions who have a much easier time getting on top of you to get off their rotation.

You're not even saying anything. You're saying what Zed can do and you're refusing to acknowledge that every step of the way, you can play around it until you decide at 30% hp you're going to stick around and wonder what goes wrong? There's nothing to talk about here because you aren't giving me anything.

PubgamerAU3 votes

Way to take everything I said completely out of context.

I think I'm finished arguing with you. It's pretty clear you're just going to twist everything I say into some form that helps your own narrative. Keep enjoying your Freelo.

ChoGathsSon4 votes

{quoted}

Way to take everything I said completely out of context.

I think I'm finished arguing with you. It's pretty clear you're just going to twist everything I say into some form that helps your own narrative. Keep enjoying your Freelo.

I didn't take it out of context, I gave you a thorough explanation and counter argument for every point you made. He's not freelo, sorry you lost this argument and sorry the truth hurts. I don't even play Zed FYI.

Mooing Kev1 votes

There's a lot of text here but one thing that stood out to me is the fact that "zed can all in and kill you if ur below half hp". Like you said any combo champ can pretty much all in you if ur below half hp but apparently zed is the only one that is problematic. "because all his abilities and auto's deal a huge amount of increased damage and can drop you to below 10% health before you're even targetted by the enemy." this statement boggled me. Once again since when was zed the only champ who can do this? With all these people qqing that zed is op on board it was refreshing to see someone with a decent rank
(I noticed most of the zed haters seemed to have gotten stomped in bronze silver elo) finally show a viewpoint that i agree on.

Mandang03 votes

Thought this was going to be funny when I saw the title, but it's basically the same old 'plz don't nerf X, look he has weaknesses!' post that gets made for every imbalanced champ. Seriously, go think back to whenever you thought a champ was OP, and I'm sure a post very similar to this one was made for them.

If you want to make a serious guide, cover the actual frustration points: Zed's poke is less-expensive than all of the mages you're taking shots at, his poke is easier to hit than theirs, his passive makes his last hitting easier, he's harder to gank, and he'll have the sustain advantage by virtue of being an AD champ. Pointing out that armor mitigates his damage isn't so much a guide as an attempt to put the blame for Zed's success on everyone else rather than on Zed (and the same 'build defense!' argument could be made about even the most OP champs in the history of the game).

ChoGathsSon2 votes

{quoted}

Thought this was going to be funny when I saw the title, but it's basically the same old 'plz don't nerf X, look he has weaknesses!' post that gets made for every imbalanced champ. Seriously, go think back to whenever you thought a champ was OP, and I'm sure a post very similar to this one was made for them.

If you want to make a serious guide, cover the actual frustration points: Zed's poke is less-expensive than all of the mages you're taking shots at, his poke is easier to hit than theirs, his passive makes his last hitting easier, he's harder to gank, and he'll have the sustain advantage by virtue of being an AD champ. Pointing out that armor mitigates his damage isn't so much a guide as an attempt to put the blame for Zed's success on everyone else rather than on Zed (and the same 'build defense!' argument could be made about even the most OP champs in the history of the game).

The difference between Zeds "infinite poke" and a Mages limited poke is a mage is going to have more than one form of poke and their mobility spell isn't going to be tied into it. They also have much better scaling as teamfighters, objective controllers due to the nature of dragon/baron stand-offs and MUCH BETTER itemization. You can say it's frustrating, I'm going to just say that's a frustration I don't share. Everyone pokes. Dodging it or poking back is a part of laning. Let's be honest, mages would buy chalice and do the same thing. Were you complaining about their infinite spammability s3 and s4? Because if not you're a hypocrite. Either way, sorry mages don't get to have everything.

Mandang02 votes

{quoted}

Either way, sorry mages don't get to have everything.

Neither your post nor mine argues ANYTHING about this.

What I AM saying is that Zed shouldn't get to have everything, and that's what I was getting at when I said your 'guide' is poor. Maybe address EVERYTHING ELSE he does beyond his ult and consider why that makes him at the least frustrating for players if you don't think he's too strong. This is, of course, assuming you're trying to make an honest guide. If this is just another 'plz don't nerf X, because defense counters them' post, then by all means continue in the footsteps of the Akali and Kat players of yesteryear (or Nid or Ziggs or whoever you consider to be the most broken)

ChoGathsSon2 votes

This is a positive guide friends

Let's try to keep it on the front page!

DanofDemacia1 votes

Should not be able to all in you with just a long sword are u retarded cuz i was full health yesterday as tf and the second he hut 6 I had full health he just jumped on me and I was dead and could do nothing about it took to long to get my stun up. Yeah your wrong knit your socks.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

{quoted}

Should not be able to all in you with just a long sword are u retarded cuz i was full health yesterday as tf and the second he hut 6 I had full health he just jumped on me and I was dead and could do nothing about it took to long to get my stun up. Yeah your wrong knit your socks.

What the fuck? Are you in 4th grade or something? Please learn how to make your rants look presentable and realistic if you want to talk to me. Otherwise, I'm just going to dismiss you as some angry illiterate child.

DanofDemacia1 votes

[deleted]

ChoGathsSon2 votes

{quoted}

Mods I dont know why he's obsessed with my socks but could you ban this kid?

Drunk Rummate1 votes

If you survive at slightly above half HP you are most certainly not safe to continue laning. If at any point Zed lands a WEQ and you're at half he will just shadow swap and auto you once for the kill.

Other than that, yeah, more or less. Honestly you might want to add - if you're absolutely garbage at dodging his harass in lane (this applies to a surprisingly high number of people) then you should consider a cloth armor start with 3 potions and 2 mana potions. Farm straight into seekers and buy your doran rings afterwards, and buy mana potions to make up for the lack of regen on your first recall.

It's better to give up all of your kill pressure and survive than it is to take a 30/70% chance that you beat Zed in lane, when all he really wants to do is snowball and you just want to scale.

Kariu Rena1 votes

Implying any other mid laner cant one shot you if you are at 50%

Drunk Rummate1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kariu Rena,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XgEZErfp,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2015-04-29T15:30:27.345+0000)

Implying any other mid laner cant one shot you if you are at 50%

I never implied that. Maybe you should read it again.

ChoGathsSon1 votes

{quoted}

If you survive at slightly above half HP you are most certainly not safe to continue laning. If at any point Zed lands a WEQ and you're at half he will just shadow swap and auto you once for the kill.

Other than that, yeah, more or less. Honestly you might want to add - if you're absolutely garbage at dodging his harass in lane (this applies to a surprisingly high number of people) then you should consider a cloth armor start with 3 potions and 2 mana potions. Farm straight into seekers and buy your doran rings afterwards, and buy mana potions to make up for the lack of regen on your first recall.

It's better to give up all of your kill pressure and survive than it is to take a 30/70% chance that you beat Zed in lane, when all he really wants to do is snowball and you just want to scale.

Well it's a little bit more champion specific at that point. Did you use your ult when Zed ulted? What's his HP at? Generally mages are going to outrange his W as the range isn't long, so you should position yourself so that he can't just W/Q/E you and kill you or even gap close to his shadow and try to finish you. That's a generalization though, it's definitely match up specific. But again, I cannot stress the power of exhaust against Zed. Even heal and barrier is worth considering. And cloth 5 isn't necessary on everyone, range is a big advantage. I'd start cloth 5 on someone like Kassadin vs Zed, however.

Here's the thing folks: you say Zed is frustrating to play against but have you ever truly tried playing him? If so, and I mean playing him and aim at understanding him, you'll find there's room to play around basically his entire kit, unlike several mages kits, let's be honest. You say you lose to him because he has more stuff - no you lose to him because you lose and blame the champion and not yourself. When I lose, I might be really frustrated initially but I'm going to think about what I did wrong and could've done better. When realizing this with Zed, it occured to me there's so much crap I could've done better. Zed is a healthy champion and his gameplay is way better than half the crap you deal with in mid lane. That's just the truth.

Drunk Rummate2 votes

{quoted}

Well it's a little bit more champion specific at that point. Did you use your ult when Zed ulted? What's his HP at? Generally mages are going to outrange his W as the range isn't long, so you should position yourself so that he can't just W/Q/E you and kill you or even gap close to his shadow and try to finish you. That's a generalization though, it's definitely match up specific. But again, I cannot stress the power of exhaust against Zed. Even heal and barrier is worth considering. And cloth 5 isn't necessary on everyone, range is a big advantage. I'd start cloth 5 on someone like Kassadin vs Zed, however.

Agreed. Very matchup specific. Ahri can stay in lane, poke him through the minion wave and sustain/farm with Qs. Xerath may want to consider recalling because using his passive will almost certainly put him within range of death.

{quoted}

Here's the thing folks: you say Zed is frustrating to play against but have you ever truly tried playing him? If so, and I mean playing him and aim at understanding him, you'll find there's room to play around basically his entire kit, unlike several mages kits, let's be honest. You say you lose to him because he has more stuff - no you lose to him because you lose and blame the champion and not yourself. When I lose, I might be really frustrated initially but I'm going to think about what I did wrong and could've done better. When realizing this with Zed, it occured to me there's so much crap I could've done better. Zed is a healthy champion and his gameplay is way better than half the crap you deal with in mid lane. That's just the truth.

I agree that Zed has a ton of counterplay. I don't think he's really any issue at all when you look at the larger picture. His early and midgame are quite strong, but when people start grouping heavily and teamfighting, and when Zhonyas/QSS gets built, he falls off incredibly hard. I've always seen Zed as that 'win lane, lose game' champion, which is why it frustrates me in particular when I lane against him.

I can get around his strong early and migame, but it usually sets me slightly behind my average CS and kill participation. The problem this presents in soloqueue (for me) is that if I do slightly below average, then I can't deal with the top laner who traded 4 kills/deaths or the ADC who went legendary in 8 minutes (exaggeration for effect). I hate relying that heavily on my side lanes performing well to make it through the midgame, but Zed pretty much forces it unless you get a lot of attention from your jungler.

Takeuchi 171 votes

for the love of god. thank you. this post is honestly something i wish people would read and understand. it highlights every argument i've ever made that zed is NOT op, he just requires thought and a slight change in build to shit on him. I always usually go Malzahar mid so i've never had a problem against zed or any other melee mid (katarina, yas etc.) i dont even have to build zhonyas.

people complain way too much about this champ and then i always hear the same thing regarding why should i build armor as a mage? well why the hell should anyone build armor or mr in any lane? its such a dumb argument. builds should and can change in any given game/situation. people who only stick to one build path without alternative paths are doing themselves a disservice

Drunk Rummate3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Takeuchi 17,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XgEZErfp,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-04-29T15:23:05.150+0000)

people complain way too much about this champ and then i always hear the same thing regarding why should i build armor as a mage? well why the hell should anyone build armor or mr in any lane? its such a dumb argument.

I think you're missing the main point of the argument which is that without some form of mana regen, farming and participating in fights early-mid game becomes extremely difficult for most mages. There isn't any AP itemization that provides both armor and mana regen like a chalice does for MR. It's easy to grab a chalice versus Leblanc and feel good after your first back, but when you recall and you have to decide between a seekers armguard or second dorans and a cloth.... well that sucks comparatively.

PS: For those reading and wondering - you get the seekers and buy some mana potions. Stacked seekers is far better than the hp from a dorans.

TheI3igDaddy1 votes

I know Zed isn't this god champion that some people say he is, and I thank you for the counter-guide. I still think, though, that he needs specific nerfs:

All I ask for Zed changes is to A) have his Q only pass through ONE minion (and his shadow's Q would still pierce everything because, you know, shadow) , and B) slight energy cost nerfs.

I don't mind that he has insane assassination and dueling potential, that's what Zed is all about. But some of the utility he has needs to be nerfed.

CISTERN1 votes

Zeds concept late game tf: use your w e q if u succeed go in and do auttoattack hydra 'one enemy has been slain', if not, stay out (so much risk, Exception if u have 2 attack speed items). u can kill someone with zed without use ur r (like old kassadin).Then after that if ur target is still alive use your r for guarantee kill, if ur target is dead try to use your r to kill someone else or as a defensive tool. Zed is like olaf season 2 guarantee one kill and maybe a second (most times)

umbraˉ1 votes

b so scrubs realize that zed isn't borken

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