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So the BUFF to Galio's ult is GREAT...

junglerboy16··29 votes·7,899 views
6/16 PBE Update

But Riot, could I make one small request that could help Galio fulfill a real role as a tanky initiator like he's supposed to? Right now, he is totally immobile, which makes absolutely no sense because a winged gargoyle of all creatures should have at least a little mobility. Gailo's only hope for initiating a team fight right now is to flash into the enemy team, which is a risky and usually sub-optimal.

My suggestion is simple: his E is now a dash (hooray for no more flash engage) that functionally works exactly the same as the current skillshot, just with a reduced range of 900 from 1180 to make up for the improved mobility. Additionally, increasing the cooldown to 14/13/12/11/10 from 12/11/10/9/8 (or possibly higher) would help keep him from becoming too mobile. This ability then becomes an excellent engage tool that allows Galio to both dive in for clutch ults, and also speed up allies that are following him into the fray. This would be a slight nerf to full AP Galio since E is one of his two major wave clear options, but on Bruiser Galio (his intended role), it gives him options to make plays, and a tanky Galio would not risk as much from using a dash for a bit of wave clear.

What do you say Riot? Can we give Galio this one last change to bring him up to snuff?

EDIT: So a lot of people are commenting that this change would make Galio really OP, and I have to agree. But—and this is a big but—that is only because right now his kit is overloaded with false power that he can't really use effectively. He suffers from the exact same issues Maokai had before his rework last season; he has excessive damage and surprising power in a successful situation, but he like Maokai is far too unreliable in any meta to actually utilize that excessive power. When they reworked Maokai (who had been my main for almost 8 months), they nerfed his damage across the board but he was still far stronger than before the changes. Galio needs the same type of changes to bring him up to date, and if part of that means axing some extra false power, then so be it.

56 Comments

Apollocliptic16 votes

It'd be easier to just remove the cast time on E. It wouldn't make him too powerful, but would allow him to swiftly follow up with Q or R (I'd also like to see Q get a travel speed buff when travelling along the path of E)

I like the current change, you are punished more if your ulti is cancelled, but rewarded SO MUCH if you land the full channel, which I often do with Righteous Glory or FLash

Aheadatime5 votes

This. I would remove cast time on E and increase Q travel speed in E's path. It would dramatically increase the playability of his kit. Since his mana costs are up there, it wouldn't be spammable either.

RiotMeddler13 votes

Galio's a tough one. His ult's really reliant on flash to be a reliable initiator, so giving him a dash of some sort's definitely tempting. If we went down that route though we'd then have to strip things off Galio to balance him out. At present Galio does offer a distinct playstyle, in that he's very much a blend of mage and tank, with strengths and weaknesses from both sides.

If we were to give him strong, regular initiation however we'd have to cut into those mages elements pretty noticeably to compensate. End result of that process is probably that Galio ends up looking like a pretty standard tank, with a dash to get himself into the fight, a slow to provide some stickiness, a powerful AOE CC, a little poke and low to moderate damage. There's a decent kit in there, but it's one that a number of other champions already offer. Pretty hesitant about going down that path without a clear idea of why that's right for Galio and how we keep a distinct identity for him (and why that's a good fit with the playstyle he currently has, his theme, what players like about him at present etc).

Flemman5 votes

Any thought about making his ult unborrowing rek'sai immediatelly, when she is caught by it, instead of letting her stoping it while doing nothing (except existing) for it?

Her being a strong jungler means galio ult have a harder time being reliable in the moment :s

Captain Aishi6 votes

i just feel like galio's ult is more suited as an anti-dive measure and that to be used in the opposite manner, it's better to have it require summoner spells to be used

Sire Hippington2 votes

I agree with not giving him a dash, right now he fills a niche as siege + counter-initation tank/mage, giving him a dash would probably make his niche overleap with Malph or Zac

Hoever, i don't think the current PBE buffs are going into the right direction either. Gallios Problem really isn't a lack of impact on a good ult, but rather the lack of impact without ult. Aditionally, his earlygame is to mana dependend and his melee AAs seem disconected from his kit. The only reason for him to get in melee range and use AAs is 'because i can', unlike every other melee in the game he doesn't have a single part of his kit linked to AAs, which feels a bit od. You can land Q for slow, E for speedbuff and catch up to melee distance, just to discover that you don't get rewarded at all for doing so, unless you want to ult(which could also be done from ~400-500 units away vs a single target).

Right now, his tank part is slightly underwhelming while his mage part drops a bit to hard later on due bad ap-ratios. I think changeing the passive into a magic on-hit that scales with MR and increasing his ap ratios in return would help tanky gallio to make use of his stickiness, while higher ap ratios would allow mage Gallio to scale better into the late, which then leaves it to the player on how to blend those two.

Apollocliptic1 votes

{quoted}

Galio's a tough one. His ult's really reliant on flash to be a reliable initiator, so giving him a dash of some sort's definitely tempting. If we went down that route though we'd then have to strip things off Galio to balance him out. At present Galio does offer a distinct playstyle, in that he's very much a blend of mage and tank, with strengths and weaknesses from both sides.

If we were to give him strong, regular initiation however we'd have to cut into those mages elements pretty noticeably to compensate. End result of that process is probably that Galio ends up looking like a pretty standard tank, with a dash to get himself into the fight, a slow to provide some stickiness, a powerful AOE CC, a little poke and low to moderate damage. There's a decent kit in there, but it's one that a number of other champions already offer. Pretty hesitant about going down that path without a clear idea of why that's right for Galio and how we keep a distinct identity for him (and why that's a good fit with the playstyle he currently has, his theme, what players like about him at present etc).

In essence, let's not create another Malphite. Don't change Galio, just give his Kit some nicer synergy. As a defensive/counter engage type he is awesome, and I don't want to lose what he is for something else. Removing the cast time (or allow movement while casting) on E, and he can then throw it into his combo, right now it's so clunky. It's not giving him a dash, just making his small mobility skill more reliable. I also suggested increasing the missle speed of Q if travelling along the E path. This would be a flat buff though to a champ almost perfectly balanced. I'd suggest a trade off, but not a big one, Trading a little off the base damage of Q and E, so that he lands them a little more consistently with much greater fluency, but with a little less damage, as this buff would mostly promote spell spamming and with his mana if he doesn't succeed in the combo he is in a weaker spot. It also telegraphs his kit a bit because people would constantly be trying to E Q or E R.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

I think Galio isn't ment to be an initiator.

He is very obviously a better peeler.

Like sure, with flash, he can have great initiations, but his peeling is still amazing when it is down.

junglerboy161 votes

Well you had no problem doing that to AP maokai, which was a legitimate build until the balance team cut about ~300 damage from his kit. I loved playing AP maokai, but overall, I'd say Maokai is in a much healthier spot now because you didn't listen to those of us who wanted him to stay a mage tree. I understand that doing this would require nerfing some of Galio's more magey aspects, but at the moment, he feels so unreliable (and rather clunky) that that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The whole point of his passive is that he can build as a tank and still deal damage, or that he can build magey and get a little tanky without hurting his damage. I agree that just slapping a dash into his kit isn't going to solve his problems very thoroughly, but he needs the same kind of updating that Maokai did, not just more damage slapped onto his ult.

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

please, dashes are not the solution to every problem. It feels like every champ and every rework is getting these now and that doesn't feel very good.

WarWork1 votes

Couldn't you play around his it the and give him a dash while working his e into some kind off passive effect?

cHAncEman12921 votes

{quoted}

Galio's a tough one. His ult's really reliant on flash to be a reliable initiator, so giving him a dash of some sort's definitely tempting. If we went down that route though we'd then have to strip things off Galio to balance him out. At present Galio does offer a distinct playstyle, in that he's very much a blend of mage and tank, with strengths and weaknesses from both sides.

If we were to give him strong, regular initiation however we'd have to cut into those mages elements pretty noticeably to compensate. End result of that process is probably that Galio ends up looking like a pretty standard tank, with a dash to get himself into the fight, a slow to provide some stickiness, a powerful AOE CC, a little poke and low to moderate damage. There's a decent kit in there, but it's one that a number of other champions already offer. Pretty hesitant about going down that path without a clear idea of why that's right for Galio and how we keep a distinct identity for him (and why that's a good fit with the playstyle he currently has, his theme, what players like about him at present etc).

May I make a suggestion?

Could Righteous Gust allow Galio to ignore unit/ terrain collision while he's in it? You know like he's flying? This would give him A LOT of mobility yes but I think there is strategy in figure out how to use it to initiate vs using it for your team.

HappyHappy231 votes

{quoted}

Galio's a tough one. His ult's really reliant on flash to be a reliable initiator, so giving him a dash of some sort's definitely tempting. If we went down that route though we'd then have to strip things off Galio to balance him out. At present Galio does offer a distinct playstyle, in that he's very much a blend of mage and tank, with strengths and weaknesses from both sides.

If we were to give him strong, regular initiation however we'd have to cut into those mages elements pretty noticeably to compensate. End result of that process is probably that Galio ends up looking like a pretty standard tank, with a dash to get himself into the fight, a slow to provide some stickiness, a powerful AOE CC, a little poke and low to moderate damage. There's a decent kit in there, but it's one that a number of other champions already offer. Pretty hesitant about going down that path without a clear idea of why that's right for Galio and how we keep a distinct identity for him (and why that's a good fit with the playstyle he currently has, his theme, what players like about him at present etc).

I have always figured allowing his E to be a slow for enemies and a MS boost for allies would be great. This could make his Q an AP or MR leech of some sort, where the mage like characteristics allow his tank characteristics to blend more.

The E would allow him to initiate more safely while also giving ulility for team mates (All he does late game is chunk and ult you)

if he had an MR leech he would be good anti-tank for AP comps. MR shred is very rare

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Galio's a tough one. His ult's really reliant on flash to be a reliable initiator, so giving him a dash of some sort's definitely tempting. If we went down that route though we'd then have to strip things off Galio to balance him out. At present Galio does offer a distinct playstyle, in that he's very much a blend of mage and tank, with strengths and weaknesses from both sides.

If we were to give him strong, regular initiation however we'd have to cut into those mages elements pretty noticeably to compensate. End result of that process is probably that Galio ends up looking like a pretty standard tank, with a dash to get himself into the fight, a slow to provide some stickiness, a powerful AOE CC, a little poke and low to moderate damage. There's a decent kit in there, but it's one that a number of other champions already offer. Pretty hesitant about going down that path without a clear idea of why that's right for Galio and how we keep a distinct identity for him (and why that's a good fit with the playstyle he currently has, his theme, what players like about him at present etc).

His Q has a slow, His E can speed himself and allies, His W can shield himself or an ally, his Ult get more mileage when their are more enemies, (like the bot lane), his passive gives him power as he builds MR, which can be attained from Locket and Mikaels, his base damage isn't horrendous, and being immobile does not prevent someone like Annie from being team engage.

Just an Idea, but maybe we have enough tanks supports as it is.

Killadillo1 votes

I feel like you miss out on the opportunity to make a flying champion more reliant on his wings, considering he is made of stone i think mobility should stay the same, but maybe give him his mobility through spells. For example:

  1. instead of shooting wind that gives move speed why not create a gust in a cone that knocks enemy's back.
  2. utilize his heaviness into his kit, maybe punching someone so hard it confuses them (like a fear) or maybe using his wings to push himself forward
    a small distance stunning who ever he hits
  3. I like the thought of Galio becoming a statue as he is a gargoyle but the taunt doesnt make sense to me, maybe change the ult to a dash and whoever he hits he takes into the air with him, coming down a short distance away that he chooses and slamming down doing more damage to those who get hit in the dead center, kind of like Ziggs's ult how that aoe works. And those hit dead center are stunned others are slow.
Laughing Fish9 votes

I think his R should dive similar to Aatrox, and then taunt upon landing. Why can't a gargoyle fly?

Dunkrius2g2 votes

Ah cmaan. where are your legendary GIFs?

Laughing Fish4 votes

You want a gif? http://33.media.tumblr.com/c4f099fed2c180fbbbd7401835ffa7e0/tumblr_n7t82ezzNF1rdredko1_400.gif

junglerboy165 votes

NOT THAT ONE O_O

Laughing Fish2 votes

This one? http://media2.giphy.com/media/bTDMi1agqnPGw/giphy.gif

junglerboy164 votes

OH GOSH, there are more of that one?!?

Laughing Fish2 votes

Here is the full gif of the last one.

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/280939.gif

Lowvyr1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Xf74dGQ5,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-06-17T19:00:37.940+0000)

You want a gif? http://33.media.tumblr.com/c4f099fed2c180fbbbd7401835ffa7e0/tumblr_n7t82ezzNF1rdredko1_400.gif

You have scared me for life. That is possible the creepiest thing I've ever seen. I remember that video now, too. Nightmare time.

kunkudunk7 votes

That would be detrimental to his kit since the granted mobility would make his ult much easier to pull off, which is your goal, and thus the extreme power it brings would have to be toned down. Galio already has solid poke for a sorta tank and on top of that his ult is just amazing. Giving him a dash would force his damage to be nerfed.

junglerboy161 votes

My point is that right now, his damage doesn't matter because it is so hard to get off (not to mention he isn't primarily supposed to be a burst caster, but rather a tank with decent burst because of his passive).

AutoreactiveCD42 votes

He's more of an anti-dive tank I feel.

kunkudunk3 votes

Exactly, not every tank has to be an initiation tank. Galio's presence forces his enemies to think carefully before bullrushing into anything.

Sightless665 votes

That's not exactly a small change. It's actually a massive buff, and it would probably leave him as the single strongest champion in the game by a wide measure. Seriously, the only thing holding him back is a lack of mobility. Give him mobility, and he's going to be ungodly strong. He'd need a major nerf if he could dash into that ultimate.

Destínum4 votes

Galio has never been meant to be an initiator though. He's a guardian. He's designed to protect allies and force enemies to attack him instead, not charge into the enemy team and start tearing them apart. There are plenty of character to fulfill the niche of "wombo-combo-initiator-tank" already. Galio doesn't need to be another one.

junglerboy162 votes

Well he certainly doesn't have much that puts him in the "protector" role right now that doesn't work better as an initiator. I'd be all for making Galio a better defender tank, but right now his kit is just too in cohesive to really do that.

Rinky Dinky1 votes

Not true.

He has some of the best anti-dive peel in the game.

Probably has some of the best Re-ingage power in the game as well.

canpan142 votes

Just making sure I understand your idea correctly.

So basically his new E is instead a dash (Same targeting it is using compared to now). He flies in a line to his target leaving a wind train behind him, dealing damage along the way.

I could go for that. Seems pretty cool.

junglerboy161 votes

Yup, that's exactly what I was going for.

canpan141 votes

I like it. Sadly I think your post might get downvoted because the title didn't really match what you wanted to talk about. If it does consider trying to make a post just regarding a change to his E.

Apollocliptic2 votes

To balance it, make it that he stops on the first target hit (to stop it being like Shyv's Ultimate!) but the wind trail continues. Careful aiming can get him passed front liners, he can't go over walls with it (again it's not an ultimate), and it still helps him progress with greater speed, or allows allies to follow

junglerboy161 votes

Yeah, their wouldn't be any knockback, just a dash. Making it stop on first enemy could be great for counterplay if more were needed though.

Apollocliptic2 votes

I can just imagine a mobility champ sacrificing themselves to stop his 5 man ulti. LB W's infront of him and hopes to blink away before dying. Though it would be better if Braum just yelled "Stand behind me" with unbreakable, also stopping the wind damage

MadDoughnutz1 votes

That'd actually be pretty neat. Loads of interesting play around mechanics, as long as the dash isn't that fast. A fast dash would mean they'd have to nerf the power of the ult for making it more reliable within his kit(And his ult is ridiculously strong, and will be more so after this patch if the changes go through.)

TheMobius401 votes

{quoted}

Just making sure I understand your idea correctly.

So basically his new E is instead a dash (Same targeting it is using compared to now). He flies in a line to his target leaving a wind train behind him, dealing damage along the way.

I could go for that. Seems pretty cool.

Sounds a lot like Corki's Valkyrie. I'm in favor.

AsToldByGinger2 votes

no that would be op as fuck

thinking man2 votes

make it similar to an Aatrox Q where you can interrupt it mid-air easily and it'll be okay

Zarxis2 votes

I don't think Riot needed to change Galio at all. The ult buff is unnecessary extra power; Galio already does plenty of damage with it because of his extra passive AP + the AP items he normally buys (ex: Abyssal Scepter). It's also on the worst possible place to buff Galio— his ultimate is arguably the most powerful part of his kit, and it's already extremely rewarding to land it properly.

It's a somewhat good thing for Galio that AP mages are currently somewhat mediocre compared to other roles (primarily assassins, AD especially) as things currently stand (due to the mana regen changes), or this buff might have made him too strong. He's fine, just underplayed (he's one of my most-played champions at this point; he's my go-to champion for countering Fizz, LeBlanc, Singed, Teemo, Malzahar, etc.).

If there's one place in Galio's kit that might be appropriate for buffing, it's his W. It could be changed to allow shielding of minions (possibly without the healing portion of the skill; Galio could abuse that for ridiculous laning sustain), shielding himself+the target (this would allow Galio more freedom in choosing who to shield; currently, he has to choose between buffing his damage and defensive stats by shielding himself or just giving an ally some resistances), and/or healing the target in addition to Galio.

A dash on Galio's E is really risky in terms of balance; he's already really good with just speed boosting/slowing on his Q and E. They're enough to set up a good ultimate if you use them properly. Even if you only get to ult the enemy's frontline, you're opening up the rest of the enemy team to your allies while the enemy frontliners are taunted, and though it's bad to force a champion to rely on Flash, Galio is currently balanced around burning Flash to perform the best possible ults. Imagine putting a dash on Annie— does she really need more mobility for deploying her ult+stun?

Doctor Dyment2 votes

He might fly my friend, but have you ever considered the fact that he is also still made of stone?

Jungle Lux God1 votes

Is Galio supposed to be a tanky initiator? His lore says he's more of a guardian or protector, which would translate into more of a defensive tank, like being based more on peeling or disengage rather than initiation.

Not to mention any sort of gapcloser on Galio would make him gamebreakingly overpowered. Flash-Idol of Durand is already one of the best initiation tools in the entire game, and the ability to do that without Flash would make him completely broken if he didn't get any hard nerfs to the rest of his kit.

AutoreactiveCD41 votes

I believe Galio's prime was when double ap comps were popular and he was used as an anti-dive champ. I'm kind of surprised people haven't tried to use him recently cause of righteous glory or with sivir on their team.

3TWarrior1 votes

sort of the same with anivia...she's a phoenix...they aren't renowned for being slow

corki suffers the same issue...he should have the highest move speed of all, lol, but nope, not according to balance XD

Support Evelynn1 votes

Galio is fine, this would make him incredibly overpowered.

Squidblimp1 votes

Or, just increase the speed-up percentage on his E to 100% at max rank instead of around 50%.

Lowvyr1 votes

I would like to see him jump up in the air with his ult, land stunning enemies for maybe .25 seconds, then taunt them like normal. Give it a little bit of range so the he flies up to a target location and slams down. Also, maybe removing the cast time on his E and making his Q fly faster on his E path would be nice, as someone mentioned.

Zedex1 votes

I have a suggestion for Galio's ultimate.

Think of Aatrox's Q, and how he leaps up to crash down at a location to disrupt the enemy. Galio should do something similar to this, as in, when he activates his ultimate he should leap up and crash down in a targeted area, taunting all nearby enemies when he does so.

Would that break Galio? Maybe lower the area of effect on the ultimate to balance it?

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