Just had a guy try to tell me that lee is trash because he has no damage, tankiness, or cc

I Main Swain·Mar 21, 2015·9 votes·895 views

...seriously? im not even gonna bother typing it all up and im just gonna link to his wiki so that we can all judge how ignorant that statement is

20 Comments

XysMar 21, 20153 votes

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thinking manMar 21, 20154 votes

{quoted}

nice attempt at starting a circlejerk, do some of you retards dedicate your life to bitching about lee sin.

pic says it all.

The average person to complain about Lee is bronze/silver yet they're also in an elo where they have never seen a even a half-decent Lee in their life.

Lord DusteonMar 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The average person to complain about Lee is bronze/silver yet they're also in an elo where they have never seen a even a half-decent Lee in their life.

The average league player is in bronze or silver, so that seems pretty normal.

ChargeItDownMidMar 21, 20153 votes

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thinking manMar 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

People overrate how hard lee sin is to play. He is very east to wreck with at all elo. Sure he might not be as overpowered in bronze/silver as he currently is in diamond but his kit is strong enough to carry even the low elo players.

It's because his kite is mediocre outside of the very top and he hasn't really been able to carry that well since they nerfed Cripple awhile ago.

He's outclassed as hell and ranges from mediocre to complete garbage depending on the elo. After they nerf all of the other broken shit that's ahead of him then he might come back.

I Main SwainMar 21, 20151 votes

well then I will say this to prove my point. the other day I played a match as lee sin in aram, and upon hitting level 6 I q'd into their entire team (all bunched up in a small group under their tower), ult their soraka out, get about 3/5 of their cassiopeias hp down, and w out before dying. that was the 3rd time I had ever played lee sin, and the same general scenario (me making a bs play and surviving when I should have been toast) happened multiple times throughout the rest of the match, and had also happened repeatedly in the times I had played him before. I would also like to point out that yesterday, while I was watching my brother play malphite for the first time, I saw their lee sin ult him and deal half his hp. I looked at both their builds and my brother had a full frozen heart, a ninja tabi and another cloth armor while lee sin had a randuins, stalkers blade and a brutalizer. between his ult q and e, lee had done a little over 2/3 of his hp.

now I'm not going off saying that he's retarded op and should be removed from the game, but I do think that he needs a focused role. all it would take is a few numbers changes and a tweak to his w dash so he could be a hyper offensive tanky dps champ who sticks to his target really well once he gets on top of them.

I Summons IMar 21, 20153 votes

Dang, that dude is almost as ignorant as the people who claim that Lee is "OP as fuck" and that "#LCSB$gPlays" (however you meme ppl spell it) is the only reason he isn't nerfed.

I Main SwainMar 21, 20151 votes

while I don't believe they don't nerf him just because #lcsbigplayz (I really don't have a clue why they don't nerf him) I do believe he is seriously op. I think that he should be made into a hyper offensive tanky dps champ. I would consider him to be perfectly balanced were they to do that, and it honestly wouldn't be hard.

LongHair FoxMar 22, 20151 votes

Is lee op? no defenaitly not. The poor guy you are trying to make fun of is way closer to hitting the truth for lower elos. Now what do I consider lower elos? Everything below diamond. Yes that includes me. Until you get to high elo people are not good at abusing leads or playing to their team compositions strengths and even platinums often default to just teamfighting when ahead even if they have drafted the prefect siege comp. Coordination is simply too difficult unless everyone knows what they should be doing and after lane phase lee sin needs that kind of coordination to be good. He is relatively easy to peel but depending on the situation, teamcomps, playstyles, situations, and many more variables he is supposed to be going all in, peeling, or anything in between and since his team is not on line with this they will not play it correctly even if the low elo lee sin does so by accident.

Lee sin Is versitile and probably slightly underpowered but due to his versitility he can easily make up for that. At the same time that is also what makes him hard to nerf since almost everything in his kit is essential to him as a champion (remember when people screamed that riot had ruined lee sin after the cripple nerf?).

UPfreelyMar 21, 20152 votes

lee has some pretty amazing scaling , good utility and can be built tanky. i get that landing his q can be hard but its hard not to laugh when people say he's less than strong.

LoRdJeSuS6969420Mar 21, 20152 votes

Well considering that he has no tankiness (aside from what any melee champion receives), poor single-target skill-shot-dependent damage (compare him to any other bruiser--darius, riven, trundle, wukong, vi, etc), and only a single target displacement and a weak point-blank range slow for CC, I'd say he is pretty garbage. He can move around a lot, but that's about it.

He isn't a tank, he isn't an assassin, he has no waveclear, he has no poke, he doesn't offer initiation unless he gets a lucky q onto an enemy carry AND they don't flash away AND he uses his flash to get behind them AND he doesn't get CC'd in the process....all he has going for him is that's he's hard to chase and good at dueling for a couple levels early game.

I Main SwainMar 21, 20151 votes

ok, I gotta disagree on almost every point there. I agree that he has little tankiness on his own (however 90% of players build him on the tanky side of bruiser), but his damage is in no way "poor". in fact, assuming that he and darius are both building straight tank with a rav, I tend to take more damage from lee sin, or at least I take it way faster. his q between both casts has (correct me if im wrong) a 180% ad scaling, and his ult has a 200% ad scaling. also note that his e does magic damage, which makes it harder to build defensive against him. I wont say that his e is a hypernuke, but the fact that it deals magic damage makes him a lot stronger.

I gotta disagree about him not being a tank or an assassin, at least to an extent. it depends on how you build him, but he normally has a decent capability to fill both roles simultaneously, just not quite as well as another straight assassin or straight tank would. I also disagree with your point that he doesn't have any wave clear, considering his e does some pretty hefty damage and most lee's build a rav which they can use to finish the wave off almost immediately. i'll agree that he doesn't have any poke and has very situational initiation capabilities (btw, he doesn't have to flash to get behind them most of the time in my experience).

like I said in another comment, I think they should just give him some numbers tweaks and maybe change his w a little bit to make him a hyper offensive tanky dps champ.

junglerboy16Mar 21, 20151 votes

Well, he has them all, just not all at once. If he is tanky, then it is late game and his damage has fallen off. If he has damage, then it is early game and he is still squishy. He always has CC though.

I Main SwainMar 21, 20151 votes

that's where my problem lies, is that that isn't entirely true. he has incredibly high bases AND scalings, which wouldn't be quiiiite as much of a problem if he weren't so safe too.

junglerboy16Mar 21, 20151 votes

The thing is, to really be tanky at all he can only afford to build one damage item. High scalings or not, building one damage item only delays the point where his damage falls off, it doesn't actually negate the drop off.

LoRdJeSuS6969420Mar 21, 20151 votes

His scalings are meh. He only really gets to use his spells once, maybe twice in a fight, and he gets no free armor pen, unlike many other bruisers (J4, VI, darius, wukong, etc. all get around 25% free pen). And yeah, his full burst combo is a decent amount of damage, but if you kick the enemy away without actually killing them you haven't accomplished all that much, and he doesn't really do anything at all after that. In general he has trouble even getting to the back line in the first plce, due to how his skill shots can be blocked by the frontline (or missed/dodged), and is a poor peeler compared to many similar champions (especially with no built in armor pen).

The fact that his e does magic damage means it doesn't benefit at all from any armor pen he builds, and chances are the enemy team will have magic resist either way. Mixed damage is more of a drawback than a benefit (unless he is playing top lee sin vs. a tank...but that's not very realistic).

Lastly in regards to waveclear, I was referring to waveclear in a defensive situation (killing the wave in front of your tower when you are being sieged) rather than just farming a wave by yourself in toplane. He e does not fill that role at all, as if he walks into the middle of the wave he'll just get blown up.

All in all he just doesn't fit in well to any team...aside from his mobility, he is meh at everything that he does, and his kit leads him to outplay himself all the time. And that's why his winrate is literally one of the worst ones in the entire game.

ofartMar 22, 20151 votes

I've never understood all the Lee Sin QQ threads. I think he's just average. He pays heavily for all his flashy plays.

I Main SwainMar 22, 20151 votes

my problem with lee sin can be summed up with a few things.

his q, between both casts, has a 180% bonus ad scaling with a large base and a % missing hp dmg

his w allows him to safely make horrendously stupid commitments

his ult has a massive base and a 200% ad scaling.

imo, he should have his numbers and his w changed to make him a hyper offensive tanky dps bruiser that sticks to his targets crazy well once he gets on top of them.

Kitten of EvilMar 22, 20151 votes

He meant to say "Bard" has no damage, tankiness, or cc.

aaronconlinMar 22, 20151 votes

Well, when I first started playing and was leveling to 30, I always thought Lee Sin was bad. I never saw a good one, never lost to one, was never even out dueled by one. Now I realize the players were just bad