Everyone does complain about lucian; Yes, he is a bit overpowered. a 52.54% win rate at 25.3% pick rate is absurd.
HOWEVER
a 52.16% win rate at 35.68% win rate as thesh is horrendously more broken than lucian.
Thats a 10% higher pick rate for thresh at a hair difference for win rate. That dude needs a nerf. https://eune.op.gg/champion/statistics
Kivolan5 votesNext patch?
There are CertainlyT champs with far more toxic kits ATM than Thresh.
Though they should REALLY look into making his Q a little less forgiving at the end of its range. I've seen so many absolutely fucked hooks.
Tobykachu2 votesCan you not make patches like this unless you have actually read the patch notes beforehand? He is literally getting nerfed next patch. He only became problematic after they buffed him the patch before worlds and they are reverting that buff so he will likely go back to where he was before then, largely balanced.
4 seconds at rank 1 is huge considering that he doesn't max Q first.
Kalikain2 votesYou also have to take into account thresh isnt a champion that uses his hook on cd. He uses it with wave management, and there isnt a wave every 14s, or 18s. Wave crashes, thresh zones on sides and hooks. A 4s cooldown will do nothing to how thresh is properly played.
Tobykachu1 votesWith the current cooldown, Thresh is able to fish for hooks off cooldown, especially in match ups that he can go particularly aggressive in. Against enchanters and low mobility adc's specifically. Not creating pressure with it is a hilarious misuse of Thresh as a champion. What do you want Riot to do? Make Thresh completely useless?
Kalikain2 votesYeah, he has a 52% win rate at a 35% pick rate. Those numbers means he needs more than a CD nerf. He needs a utility or otherwise stat nerf. Nerfs souls, hp growth, hp start rates. Make it so when he actually uses his Q, that it means hes got to all in or he'll die. A cd nerf just means he scratches his nose between guaranteed all in kills.
Do you understand that?
Hes in 1/3 of all games in league and he is a guaranteed to climb champion, regardless of skill. (Regardless of skill as in, champs with higher pick rates means low skill players play him so much and still win alot.) I cant imagine the win rate of diamond+ thresh players. Thats got to be around 60%.
So yes. He needs to be useless because enchanter meta was an overall better bot lane experience.
Tobykachu1 votesBoth Thresh's pick and win rate was lower before the buffs a few months ago. It's very possible that reverting these buffs will send him back to that more balanced state.
Are you actually joking? You think the ardent meta was in any way not the worst meta we've ever seen in the history of League of Legends? I'd take any meta over the enchanter meta and I know that this is not an unpopular opinion.
Kalikain2 votesNo, thats an unpopular opinion. Slower laning phases without having to worry about snowballing comps + assassin 1 shots?
You can't just say its a popular opinion and believe it so.
Tobykachu1 votesNo it straight up is the general consensus people had when Ardent and Enchanters were overpowered. Assassins and Bruisers were absolutely useless and any non - ardent support was basically trolling. Games were even more snowbally than before, as whichever team got their bot lane ahead simply won the game, with almost no way for the enemy team to come back. Tanks would get shredded, assassins and fighters would have their kits shut down with the peel provided by most enchanters and mages would generally have their damage shrugged off by an onslaught of shields and heals.
Saying you personally enjoy enchanters is one thing, but claiming most players preferred the ardent/enchanter meta over anything we have now is factually un-true.
xDelightifyx3 votesBut still the ardent meta was providing counterplay. You could al1ays. kill the support or the adc because they were squishy as hell. And unlike assasines, they did never oneshot you. Maybe u get killed by 3 aas, but thats not 2k dmg in 0.1 s like rengar is doing for example. No matter what you say Ardent meta provided more counterplay and an healthier Environment, than this current assasine biasedness. I as support had the feeling of beej g able to influence the game, even if my adc wasnt the best. Now im just feed for assasines, especially cause lulus polymorhp is still buggy after 3 years. Now ot doesnt matter how good i utilize my kit, it only dealing more dmg matters....Thy for that btw riot.
Tobykachu1 votesThere was little to no couterplay available in the ardent meta. Champions like Leona and Blitzcrank should've been pretty powerful in the ardent meta, as they should be able to prey on the numerous squishy targets available to them and a lot of the time they did. However as soon as the enemy completed their ardent censor, the match up did a 180° flip. You were now weaker than the enemy, regardless of which champion you played.
Of course no adc is going to burst you down as quickly as a Rengar, I don't even understand why this comparison is here.
Games were won entirely through bot lane. If you got fed top lane, it was almost always meaningless if the enemy adc was slightly further ahead.
Trying to kill a champion who was killing squishy targets in 4 hits and bruisers in around 9, from 600 range getting a 400 hp shield ever 5 seconds was an excruciatingly difficult task even for champions whose sole purpose is to one shot them.
Now please explain to me how this meta is fair to top and mid players and supports that aren't enchanters.
We're currently not in an assassin meta. Riot realises assassins are an inherently flawed class and so when any particular one becomes strong they are usully nerfed pretty quickly.
xDelightifyx1 votesI made this comparison, because u stated adc were dealing to much dmg for providing to little/none counterplay. That is the perfect description of any assasine right now. And bro we are in a Assasine/Bruiser meta right now. Idk what u are talking about. Sure u cant kill the adc when the auppprt utilizes his kit perfectly, thats all hes there for. Sorry that u couldnt oneshot (no skill needed to do that) everybody by pressing one Button. If u focused the support (dead in less than a second) the adc was dead too. Especially as assasine. As tank support (Alistar braum) you still had a decent lane against enchanter. They deal only little dmg and are super squishi especially during the earlygame, where u could easily punish them. Pls explain me how the actual meta is fair for anyone except for assasines and brusiers? And pls. explain me why it is fair to gut Enchanter itemisation, every enchanters kit, his support item and taking one starting potion ontop. This was 2 seasons ago and until now, unlike every other class, we had no compensation buff at all. No basestats where made better, no scaling or spell duration was customized. All we got was 2% shield/heal power, whats kind if the same way to say Fuck you to the community, like riot did with the - 5ms nerf on irelia. What u need to understand is, that it isnt healthy if a champ. oneshots others without providing counterplay. Adcs do provide counterplay and they also did during ardent meta. Not saying they werent strong. but u know, if "buy zhonyas" or "use flash" is my only "counterplay" to an assasine, idk why there was a problem with "killing the support first" or "kill him a few times early, when hes weak" (still they call that counterplay to yas, or draven) as counterplay measurement.
Tobykachu1 votesWell there are multiple things that would classify as 'too much damage'. You're right, a Rengar killing a squishy target in 0.00 seconds is too much damage, but an adc killing someone in 4 autos from 600 range whilst also shreding through tanks would also fall under that description too.
Bruiser meta maybe, but a lot of the top tier fighters have been nerfed significantly from where they were a couple of months ago, but assassin? Not really. Assassins have always been a particularly popular class, but are too feast or famine to ever have a meta evolve around them.
I am a Bard otp, I'm not and never expecting to one shot anyone, so please don't make such assumptions.
An enchanter correctly utilising their kit doesn't just negate burst, their shields and heals had insanely low cooldowns to make them great against all sorts of playstyles. Bruisers either lacked the damage to kill them or lacked the tankiness to survive against them. Poke mages had their abilities absorbed by a shield and life steal. Tanks had little to know damage to pose a significant threat. All this power from abilities that only require you to point and click on an ally. That does not provide a significant window of counterplay like you somehow seem to believe exists.
It's fair because enchanters have been too powerful since their inception. All enchanters sat at around a 52-54% win rate every patch (occasionally higher) for years, which is insane. The ardent meta accentuated all of these problems and it was obvious that they needed to be brought down significantly to be fair.
Enchanters didn't get compensation buffs because they didn't need them. With the new support items they are now thoroughly a late game class and if you reach that stage of the game you are innately more powerful than a Thresh or Leona etc. There is absolutely no reason for a late game class to be powerful early game as well.
Kalikain3 votesIdk where this dude is getting his, "There was little to no counter play." Hes pretty much making up facts as he goes.
Ardent meta consisted of 4 lane types for supports.
Mages; Morgana and Zyra being the top two, but you can bring annie/brand types down bot. Tanks; (Almost unchanged) Alistar, Braum, Tahm, Leona Playmakers; Thresh, Blitz Enchanters; Nami, Lulu, Janna, Soraka, Sona
Our picks now if you want to stand any chance of winning
Mages; Brand Tanks; Braum Playmakers; Thresh, Pyke Enchanters; Nami
If you don't conform, you are in a losing match up.
Why do you say theres more counter play now?
Kalikain2 votesP.S. Dudes win rate through 50 games is 47% as a bard one trick. Thresh was banned in 48 of those games. Easy to op.gg you brother.
xDelightifyx1 votesI think that we, my. friend, are playing different games. I see thresh as to strong too, but damn do we have more important problems right now. Brand support for example, or every Assasine.
GEESWARHOURES1 votesYeah, he has a 52% win rate at a 35% pick rate. Those numbers means he needs more than a CD nerf. He needs a utility or otherwise stat nerf. Nerfs souls, hp growth, hp start rates. Make it so when he actually uses his Q, that it means hes got to all in or he'll die. A cd nerf just means he scratches his nose between guaranteed all in kills.
Do you understand that?
Hes in 1/3 of all games in league and he is a guaranteed to climb champion, regardless of skill. (Regardless of skill as in, champs with higher pick rates means low skill players play him so much and still win alot.) I cant imagine the win rate of diamond+ thresh players. Thats got to be around 60%.
So yes. He needs to be useless because enchanter meta was an overall better bot lane experience.
It's players like you who don't even play thersh and think he's "over powered" do you even read his cool downs on his abilitys without cdr or what they do plus the status? Please don't try to get good champs nurfed if you have on idea what you're talking about.
Kalikain2 votesAlthough I do play thresh, and My win rate, without even having to play 200 games on him, is crazy high. I play against thresh in literally 40% of my games on the rift. The stats speak for themselves within the pick and win rates. The dude is overpowered and your position is one of someone who feels picked on for people wanting your broken main nerfed. Pff. I didn't cry when xin was destroyed to the ground, because everyone knew he was broken in season 8. With max CDR, possible even 45% because it doesnt hurt to go inspiration on him, You're looking at a thresh hook about once every 6 seconds, at around level 11. Ontop of infinitely scaling armor vs an adc. Then ult and flay combo, ontop of the dude being ranged.
Anyone who denies thresh is broken isn't worth speaking to beyond just explaining how his kit is broken.
SKT T1 DRACOS2 votesSHUT UP THRESH IS MY MAIN DONT LISTEN RIOT
Sir Saltarin1 votesHe's being nerfed
FOR JUSTICE1 votesnext patch.
Kalikain3 votesHe has a 4s increasecd on Q and mana increase to 70 mana from 60.
However mana is obsolete and really doesnt make a difference, and the 4s cs only applies on rank 1, and pretty much is not enough to make a difference with CDR on every item in the game.
Who is Taliyah1 votesClearly you have never played the game.
xDogMeatx1 votesSENNAAA!!! goes devil may cry ult on you
Tahminatrix 1 votesThresh is literally the only support with a hook that can be completely gutted by 50% or more tenacity which isnt even that hard to get if you are in a position that should commit to building tenacity anyway. (Can get around 40% with just runes)
You can reduce the distance he drags you by half.....
It gets to the point where you could potentially spend just as much time cc`d as he spends winding up his hook, if not less...
Sergeant HbA1c1 votesHe's still busted because of everything else in the game. Not just his kit. They finally reverted that horrendous Q buff, but his playstyle still hasn't changed, nor have the numbers.
Riot needs to stop forcing the meta. Give us more variety (Hint: alternating between 
and 
isn't variety.)