@Meddler: Everything Wrong with Poppy's Rework

junglerboy16··16 votes·1,072 views

I really like how Poppy looks right now, honestly I do. However, she isn't Poppy anymore. I've tried my hardest to be positive about her rework, but the list of grievances is just too long to handle:

  • She doesn't have Hybrid scaling anymore (no, a conditional AP ratio on W doesn't count in the least)

  • Her Damage is stronger early game than late game, which is completely the opposite of who Poppy is and ever was.

  • She has too much passive gameplay (Her actual passive has limited decision making potential, and her W relies 100% on an enemy acting, leaving it to feel like you have to just be lucky for someone to hit the dash blocker.

  • Her burst combo isn't bursty

  • Her reward for landing a wall stun is bad (minimal extra damage and a chance to potentially land her slow as heck Q, before it guaranteed a 150% increased damage nuke on contact and a guaranteed AA>Q burst combo)

  • Her ult has zero synergy with her other abilities in any way. In fact, it lacks synergy with basically everything in the game. Unless you use it totally uncharged, it completely removes any chance of followup. This is totally out of character, since Poppy of all people is the one who wants to get into a fight and smash faces, not knock someone away and forget about it.

  • Her W passive is bad for the same reasons it and similar passives are always bad: Giving % armor and MR makes her overly strong against a team with only one damage type, but invariably too weak against mixed damage comps because of the handicap to her base stats that it comes with. Add in that her passive scales off of max HP and she has to build a large amount of all three types of durability to actually gain reasonable survivability, especially in comparison to bruiser/tanks like Garen or Sion. She either needs straight % damage reduction instead (to allow her to actually build as a health/AD centric bruiser) or possibly a flat steroid that doesn't require her to build extra resistance stats (again, allows her to focus on HP and AD, like she should be)

  • Her Q's scaling dis-incentivizes building AD since it only has a flat % damage amount. It should have a flat base damage and then the % health damage should scale off of AD to help it stay relevant later into the game, especially for how telegraphed and unreliable it is.

  • She was changed from an incredibly offensive champ into an incredibly defensive champ, and is virtually unrecognizable from a gameplay perspective. At least with Sion he maintained an aggressive identity even after being turned into a tank. Poppy as of now is a haphazard mismatch of her old dive happy self (Q and E) and this new hyper defensive unexciting babysitter tank (W and R)

  • Her passive feels like it is just tacked on to solve her pathetic laning, it doesn't mesh with her kit and doesn't make sense with her identity (why the hell does throwing a tiny light shield deal more damage than crushing their skull with a GIANT HAMMER?)

  • She lost her synergy with Trinity Force and co. which is a major detriment to her damage and build variety.

  • Her early game is still bad in most cases, but she is not rewarded by any form of late game scaling, at all.

  • Sion is allowed to have damage and durability because he is super telegraphed and has extremely healthy counterplay. Poppy now has equivalent levels of counterplay, but loses out on the levels of damage and durability Sion got. She falls short of what she should be because Riot is scared to give her anything that could even remotely allow Poppy players to keep building damage on her.

  • She is now a tank. I get that Riot really, really disliked her old hypercarry persona, that's literally 90% of why they reworked her in the first place. However, the least they could have done would be make her an aggro bruiser in the vein of Darius or Garen, rather than the pansy peel tank she is now.

  • She is no longer a "siege breaker". Before the rework, one of the major selling points and hallmarks of her kit was that she could break a siege better than any other champ in the game. I understand that that was because of her ult, which was broken and unhealthy, but the Least Riot could do would be to make her able to break sieges in some other more healthy manner. Alistar can keep his ult's damage reduction against towers, which makes him a decent siege breaker, but Poppy needs something like that (not necessarily another form of damage reduction, just a tool to help ignore towers to a certain extent)

  • HER FREAKING LORE YOU BASTARDS! Most of what made Poppy, well, Poppy, was that she was a tragic heroine seeking revenge on the evil people that murdered her father on an innocent trip to deliver a commission and that she wouldn't let her small stature stand between her and their demise. She is now a clueless/unsuspecting heroine looking for someone to use her big magical hammer that is (such a tired cliche, really) actually her! Wow, It's like we have no sentimental connection, no sympathy, no reason that her hammer is relevant, no reason that she actually fights anymore. She's just another random fighter now.

Not only has her kit been neutered, they even managed to destroy her identity. Please upvote in the hopes that Riot sees this and realizes how badly they've dropped the ball here. Also, if I've missed any issues you have with her kit, please comment them below.

19 Comments

Gigahappytown5 votes

poppy was not reworked she was re-launched they scrapped old poppy and built her from the ground up

Rozair4 votes

Upvote. You said it all brother. I'm super upset with the lore. Wtf is this new lore bullshit. Her ult is punished for charging up basically

The Sword Saint3 votes

I like it. Not going to post an essay about why on every single poppy thread though. Maybe I'll write one up and add it to my list.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

"Her Q's scaling dis-incentivizes building AD since it only has a flat % damage amount. It should have a flat base damage and then the % health damage should scale off of AD to help it stay relevant later into the game, especially for how telegraphed and unreliable it is."

No, it has a flat amount of damage.

"Poppy smashes the ground, dealing 30/65/100/135/170 (+.65 bonus AD) plus 6% of the enemies' maximum Health as physical damage, and leaving an unstable area.

The Area slows enemies inside it by 20/25/30/35/40% and erupts after 1 second, dealing the initial damage again.

Hammer Shock deals 80% damage to minions."

The flat damage scales with bonus AD while the max health damage only scales with the enemy. Further, it deals its damage twice. So at level one if an enemy gets hit by the attack they take 60+12% of their max health in physical damage. The percentage health damage doesn't need to scale because it's there to make her damage always stay relevant, not make her a tank nuker.

junglerboy161 votes

{quoted}

"Her Q's scaling dis-incentivizes building AD since it only has a flat % damage amount. It should have a flat base damage and then the % health damage should scale off of AD to help it stay relevant later into the game, especially for how telegraphed and unreliable it is."

No, it has a flat amount of damage.

What I meant by this is the % max health damage doesn't change. No matter what it is always 6% max health. I am suggesting that it instead be 6% (+x% AD)% max health damage. I am well aware that it has a base damage.

The flat damage scales with bonus AD while the max health damage only scales with the enemy. Further, it deals its damage twice. So at level one if an enemy gets hit by the attack they take 60+12% of their max health in physical damage. The percentage health damage doesn't need to scale because it's there to make her damage always stay relevant, not make her a tank nuker.

Fair enough, having a standard AD ratio instead of a % max health based AD ratio has its merits. That said, the scaling and base damage are both fairly low for how hard it is to land.

Shahamut1 votes

it deals damage 2x, 12% max health is plenty.

Wind Whistler1 votes

They wouldn't listen for Sion, and they probably won't listen for Poppy. I can't believe how many people want to "main" "Poppy" after the rework. I'm gonna play her every day and every game this patch so I can remember her for who she was.

junglerboy161 votes

Yeah, I don't main her currently (because that would require her to be my most played champ) That said, I am a Poppy enthusiast. I love her kit and will play her whenever I have a chance and I'm not busy concerned with getting a first win of the day or playing ranked (since I am not good enough at Poppy to win reliably with her). I also am a huge fan of her character and her identity. She is a tragic character and has a surprisingly stern demeanor for such a young individual. She is also the only Yordle to fight primarily using hand-to-hand combat (since it is debatable whether Amumu is a Yordle or a human, and Gnar doesn't fight in melee outside his rage induced mega-mode, which doesn't quite count in the same way).

I just hope that they can alleviate some of these issues she has before she goes live.

Shahamut1 votes

just a point of reference, Mummy is indeed a yordle. :)

junglerboy161 votes

Nope, based on his new lore he is a human child.

"He looked upon one last image before he left the tomb. It showed the boy prince dead, lying upon a bier. Those closest to him were wailing... but further back, people were celebrating. Had the boy prince been beloved, or had he been a tyrant? There was no way of knowing."

"The young man looked down. The linen-wrapped corpse of the tiny prince stood beside the man. Dull, ghostly light emanated from the deathly boy's eye sockets, though his entire face was bound in burial wrappings. The corpse-child held the man's hand."

Amumu was a Shuriman prince before he died, not a Yordle.

AsphodelNext1 votes

her W relies 100% on an enemy acting, leaving it to feel like you have to just be lucky for someone to hit the dash blocker.

Was looking at this and wondering how you can ever actually get that damage, since people will see you with the circle up and just wait for it to end. Then, I realized it's meant to be used while they're mid-dash, like Fiora's Riposte. Something I don't have the reaction time/ping to do, sure, but I could see professional/more skilled players using it really well.

junglerboy161 votes

Yes, using it reactively helps a bit, but it still relies on your opponent acting first before you can actually utilize it. If they never dash at or past you, then you're left with half an ability. If they do dash at you, it is still just reactionary play instead of proactive playmaking. The same issue goes with her ult, since she is overly reliant upon an enemy coming to her and needing to get punted away than her being able to make plays and set up insects or something of the like.

Shahamut1 votes

You guys are forgetting that this works like a zoning tool. If you or an ally needs to escape, this can keep people from being able to catch you. Getting chased by Yasuo, bounce him off.

Im still waiting to see (test) if you can stop people from dashing OUT of the zone. That would be awesome.

junglerboy161 votes

From what I've seen, it stops any dash going any direction as long as it passes somewhere within her W zone. So yes, it blocks people dashing away too.

just a memory1 votes

Bump of Justice

YuGiHo1 votes

Why must everyone be a tank, shes not even a fighter similar to hecarim or shyv who both tank a little and deal damage

Hinagiku331 votes

Karma Cassiopeia Mordekaiser : "Welcome to the club."

Shahamut1 votes

you forgot Skarner

Shahamut1 votes

I will try to match you point for point:

  • Hybrid scaling is hardly an identity thing. It's certainly not what makes Poppy "Poppy". Although I understand your frustration with change, I can't give you any grievance on this point.

  • I've played with her a bit on PBE, her damage is actually very consistent throughout the game and depends on how you build her. If you get ahead and decide to go, say: Ghostblade, Maw, Trinity- you can put out some crazy damage late game.

  • Her burst combo is bursty, maybe not as huge as old Poppy, but it still does good damage, E into wall, AA, Q, AA (Q again). mid to late game, I could delete the large jungle monsters before Q's second damage effect.

  • Poppy (by RIOT's statements anyway) was never intended to be a melee assassin. The specific numbers you are crunching is merely a statement from power level and damage output, which isn't actually an argument. Just a cry of nerf. She is being toned down in raw damage because she isn't supposed to be a melee assassin. She is getting other good stuff to make up for her damage loss.

  • Poppy in your mind is still a raw damage dealer. The designers wanted her to be a protector, her ult can act as a ranged finisher, but its utility and purpose meshes VERY well with her E. She can single out a target better than most if she times her ult well. Knock primary target to wall, knock everyone else away. W synergizes with this concept as well as it keeps people from dashing in to help. I'd be willing to bet it would stop a thresh lantern, but I havent gotten to test that yet.

  • Her Q has flat damage, a bonus AD ratio, and a flat 6% max health. Maybe you misread it? Building AD helps, she is just no longer an ASSASSIN. Which again, she was never meant to be.

  • This again... Yes, she is no longer a huge damage dealer... She was never supposed to be. Im sorry this seems to be your major focus of contention but you are just going to have to deal with it... Her play pattern is nearly identical. Playstyle-wise, she is still a dive happy champ, who excels at locking down and singling out a target. Her damage is still relevant in my experience, and if you build for it, can still be very high.

  • How did she lose synergy with Trinity force? Gives AD, has sheen, makes her run faster, now gives CDR... She still benefits GREATLY from Sheen procs. Not sure what you mean here.

  • Her early game is actually better than before, if only by a little. She scales just fine into lategame, just not as an assassin. She brings more utility now, but her scaling is not as bad as you make it sound.

  • Poppy is not nearly as telegraphed as Sion... gets free armor and magic resist that doubles the bonus when she falls below 40% health. Her damage is fine. She just isn't an ASSASSIN anymore. How many of these points are going to complain about her damage?

  • She is a tank/bruiser. You apparently don't get that as you still continue to refer to her damage output as stupid low. You want to talk about a tank with no damage output then talk about Shen. Poppy's damage is fine. She can still build damage if she wants. She just isn't a melee assassin with no counterplay anymore. RIOT's biggest problem with Poppy was 2 fold: 1- She wasn't holding the identity they envisioned for her, and 2- her ult was as unfun of a mechanic as there ever was. No matter how much cc you brought to the table, she would just walk past your whole team to the adc and blow them up. What could you do about it? nothing. The adc pretty much had only one option, try to run far enough away so that her ult runs out before she reaches you. That is what needed to change and is the reason people played her the way they did. How would old Poppy do if they just changed her ult to not make her immune to cc? She would be worthless. New Poppy has a defined roll that she can achieve whether she is ahead or behind.

  • Ok, had to read that one 2x. Siege breaker, I thought at first you were talking about stopping the enemy from sieging YOUR towers. Easy, new Ult does that really well. Making it to where you can break through your enemy defenses in order to succeed on a siege? New ultimate also does that well. Cant defend a tower when you are back at base :P.

  • Lore is your opinion, so I won't argue about lore. I felt the same way when they changed Skarners lore to: Hes protecting a cave in the Shurima desert. No one knows whats in there. END

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