Boards›Gameplay

@Meddler, I and Ezreal Wright found a unique way to make Ezreal W useful for AD. Read!

lostbob117··10 votes·1,490 views

So we were talking on and off about this, and we threw ideas back and forth about the topic. It got to a point where we were talking about something like Jayce's gate or like his Q doing something if it goes through his W, and here's what we came up with that.

We were doing this due to his playstyle is to be a quick ability spammer, so we wanted a change to be with that.

We present the idea that is most unique. I don't think anyone suggested it before.

What we came up with, when you shoot the Q through his W the abilities would fuse together to make one skill shot that did the following: W+Q Combo

  • Has 1150 Range (Mystic Shot's range)
  • After hitting his W it slows down the father it goes out. From 2000 to like 1800 speed. (Instantly slowing it down is annoying)
  • It gives 2 stacks to his passive (2 Abilities make it)
  • Ignores Minions and Monsters (Essence Flux trait)
  • Applies both damages from both abilities (Physical and Magic)
  • Single Target (Mystic)
  • Applies on-hit effects (Mystic)
  • Reduces abilities CDs (Mystic)
  • Has Mystic's Hit box
  • (NEW) When it hits, it applies a Arcane Mark. This mark will make Arcane Shift's damage go to that Champion if it can, no matter what. If you auto the Champion with the Arcane Mark on them, it'll remove the Mark and reduce Arcane Shift's CD by 1.

(NEW) W+E Combo

  • Consumes his W and adds bonus damage onto Arcane Shift's damage, not 100% of the W damage, probably like 50%.
  • Adds Attack Speed (Like it already does)
  • Gives you an Arcane Stack, when you autoattack an enemy champion Arcane Shift's CD will reduce by 1.
  • Next Auto also will give True Sight the target for 3seconds or so. Fits his theme kind of

Context: We didn't put atk spd in it so there are more choices with this addition to Ezreal. This also helps Ez hit through minions with his Q at the expense of extra mana and no aoe damage so AP Ez won't use it as much during teamfights, but this also gives him more choices

(NEW) Context: This new stuff is to go all out with what Morello said. We made it reduce Arcane Shift's CD to fit more of a jump in and out kind of guy. He'll usually use this when going all in. When kiting he'll be able to jump around the enemy some more. If he uses W+E however he won't move far from the enemy.

EDIT: Morello responses to the Tweets I sent him of this: https://twitter.com/RiotMorello/status/541488296509976576

40 Comments

Cale0172 votes

... *Ezreal Wright and I

Sorry. That was bugging me.

In all reality, while this sounds like a cool idea and it certainly is creative, something like this would never happen. Riot made it clear pretty early on that there was never going to be a champion who combined skills like that, and even outside of that design option look at how much you're giving this.

Two stacks on his passive in essentially one spell.

A much wider skillshot than Mystic is.

Passes through minions and monsters.

Applies on hit effects.

No. Just no. Part of the point of his Mystic shot applying on hit effects from a range is that you have to get a clear shot. That's where the "skill" in that skillshot comes from. Otherwise he'd be the absolute pokiest champion in the game after he got a Lich Bane or a Triforce. Just really stop and think about it for a minute.

An Ezreal who, for the price of two spells abilities at the same time, can fire clear through your minion wave, the only saving grace you might have after he blinks next to you and starts unloading, and pop you with a massive on hit proc that sails through the creatures in the game MADE to save you from last hits. That's why last hit abilities only apply to skillshots or auto attacks: so that you have to get in a position to make it work.

And even if the rest were okay, it's also an on hit skill shot that's ignoring minions with a hitbox nearly twice as wide as the half of the shot that's giving it the on hit effect. So it's a shot that can already pass through minions so there's no way to block it, can apply on hit effects so you have little chance of surviving if you're already on the run, and is nearly twice as wide so is even harder to dodge.

Having to shoot one skill through the other and all of a sudden it's able to pass through anything save champions and apply on hit effects when it gets there for a skillshot? You've essentially taken all of the precision out of Ezreal, and that's half of playing him.

It wouldn't happen. It's a neat idea, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't do as well when you really stop to think about what all it would entail.

lostbob1171 votes

The hitbox doesn't change form Mystic shot's.

You cannot be right next to a minion when doing this. It takes a little bit till Mystic hits Essence if you fire W->Q.

They are 2 spells. Just on each other basically.

He'll do the same damage if he unloaded all out on you as he E'd.

It slows down as it goes farther, more of a chance to dodge it. I probably should have added in "It'll change color"

I don't think I'm taking the precision for Ezreal. Even tho his Q happened to pass through his ult still needs to be able to have a spot where he can do max damage with it.

This gives him more choices. Also just cause Riot said "We're never going to do this" doesn't mean they won't. They said they would never do something like Gnar, they did it. Like Azir, they still did it. Like Kalista, they did it again! They went from saying "We're never gonna" to "How can we do this in a healthy way?" I think this way is pretty healthy, numbers can even be change to balance it. Like less damage from his W maybe.

Cale0171 votes

Ah, misread that bit. My bad.

A little bit that either A) ruins Ezreal's shot as he's locked into a very limited range of angles he can move to and still combine the two or B) anyone who has smartcast can fire off almost immediately on anyone within range and line of sight.

They're combining. Rito has stated they're not going to go down the Invoker route with champion design.

Slows down, but is still passing through minions. You can't just add all of that and remove a miniscule amount of missile speed and try to say that it's still balanced. Considering that you're combining his ult with is Q, and his ult passes through champions as well, you're giving and ult the potential to apply a teamwide on hit effect. That's practically an oxymoron. Those two ideas should never be combined within the same sentence applying to the same thing. If you proc Lichbane, you'd be adding upwards of 400 damage to anyone he hits in the late game. On a global, pass through skillshot.

You're right, they have been doubling back on some of their design rules from the past. But they've still tried to do it in a way that was healthy, that can still be played against, that can still be handled. In ways that are giving as many weaknesses as they are strengths.

You, by comparison, are giving a teamwide on hit proc for the "price" of 200 missile speed that also goes directly against something they've stated they won't do. You aren't asking for a rethinking of his kit, you're just asking for a buff because you're an Ez main, or perhaps used to be, especially judging from your name.

I'm all for new ideas in this game, but when suggesting design changes you should try and check your fanboy/girl at the door and think about this from a developer standpoint, and from the standpoint of everyone who then has to deal with it on the fields as well as just what you would enjoy.

lostbob1172 votes

Riot has claimed they will never do many things, they still do them.

NO, I am not combining his Q and ultimate, it's his W and Q.

HOW IS THIS TEAMWIDE? I'm saying his W and Q combine to be single target.

200 speed is a lot. Think of a Ezreal's movespeed, it's about 320 at the start.

Yes, I main Ezreal. I've stated many times. I don't want Ezreal to have a damage buff. I was actually kind of mad that they buffed his Q. Not what he needed.

Also, thoroughly read the post before trying to make an argument.

Ezreal Wright1 votes

Riot has claimed they will never do many things, they still do them.

NO, I am not combining his Q and ultimate, it's his W and Q.

HOW IS THIS TEAMWIDE? I'm saying his W and Q combine to be single target.

200 speed is a lot. Think of a Ezreal's movespeed, it's about 320 at the start.

Yes, I main Ezreal. I've stated many times. I don't want Ezreal to have a damage buff. I was actually kind of mad that they buffed his Q. Not what he needed.

Also, thoroughly read the post before trying to make an argument.

Pretty much this. We're talking about Essence Flux and Mystic Shot. Plus, he won't get any damage buff, he'll just be able to hit Q through minions or give W a better range and speed. I don't know where you got that Trueshot Barrage and worldwide thing, tho.

And his base MS is 325, the lowest of the game.

Cale0171 votes

"Even tho his Q happened to pass through his ult still needs to be able to have a spot where he can do max damage with it."

If you don't want your readers to be confused, don't confuse them. I did thoroughly read your post, I can't help if you contradict yourself or don't bother to make sure you're being clear, concise, or consistent.

He also has quite a large blink, still making him one of the more mobile champions. His base movement speed being so low is part of the balance for him having that blink.

Even if it's just his Q and W, there's still the part where you're allowing an on hit ability to pass through minions for the sake of free poke on an enemy champion. Should Irelia's Transcendent Blades apply on hit effects now as well? Twitch can apply effects to several targets at once, but he also has to use his ult to do so, and if you stand in place long enough for him to do so it's your own fault, not because he has something that can't be stopped by minions.

If you want his Q to be able to hit people through minions, do the opposite. Remove it's ability to apply on hit effects when combined with his Essence Flux to balance that it can now pass through minions. You want to make it a pass through skillshot? Cool. Make it work like a pass through skillshot. Don't remove any of it's inherent damage, just let it hit only champions.

That is balance. You give, and you take away. You don't just add it all together and then take out something random to "compensate."

Ezreal Wright1 votes

Arcane Ezreal Wright duo c:

Percseuss1 votes

Are you guys like ezreal mains that are friends?

lostbob1171 votes

Yeah.

ModIts Yuu and Mi1 votes

Only big big issue I see is AP Ez has to be careful in the order he uses but I mean if he uses Q/W in the opposite order then he'd be fine (in terms of an all-in).

Seems interesting to say the least.

Percseuss1 votes

Sounds interesting to say the least could use some balancing but any QoL changes would do ezreal good. You are right he didn't need a damage buff its just gonna get him nerfed more.

ModThe Djinn1 votes

I see one major problem with this: if you can hit a given target reliably, W+Q merging is ALWAYS the best course of action, provided it adds damage. It simply increases your chances of hitting more targets.

All this really does is make you feel bad when this DOESN'T happen, whether due to Q hitting a minion too early or simply due to lag of some sort.

I'll agree that W should maybe do something more interesting, but I don't think this is the way to accomplish that.

Ezreal Wright1 votes

I see one major problem with this: if you can hit a given target reliably, W+Q merging is ALWAYS the best course of action, provided it adds damage. It simply increases your chances of hitting more targets.

All this really does is make you feel bad when this DOESN'T happen, whether due to Q hitting a minion too early or simply due to lag of some sort.

I'll agree that W should maybe do something more interesting, but I don't think this is the way to accomplish that.

It doesn't add any damage, it just increases your chance of hitting a target. Plus, Essence Flux's projectile speed is kinda low by itself. Rapidly using Mystic Shot will mostly always touch it. Plus, the correct combo is W + Q, if you Q first it'll be almost impossible to hit W into it. But yeah, if it's too hard to hard, we could add a little instant at Essence Flux's max range where Mystic Shot can collide with Essence Flux more easily.

Hope I answered your question.

lostbob1171 votes

I feel like you are wrong in this stance. W+Q Is not going to be the best thing to do always. As I said, you lose out on aoe when AP Ez, even AD Ez. If you fighting in an open area it's better to hit 2 targets with your W over using it with the Q. It's more damage overall for you. Also you need to give your teammates atk spd lots of the time while fighting or getting an objective. There are many times I had an atk spd reliant champion that I toss W to and started fighting with them with Q and watched their damage boost due to that.

It'll be the best feeling way, but the not the most optimal way of fighting always. Q will always be better just about when you can hit it, since it's easier to hit.

Saianna1 votes

That would be too hurtful.. Have in mind that Jayce's enhanced Q has long CD. Your suggestion would be available every 4 seconds~~

Ezreal Wright1 votes

That would be too hurtful.. Have in mind that Jayce's enhanced Q has long CD. Your suggestion would be available every 4 seconds~~

Unlike Jayce, it isn't transforming a basic skillshot ability into a AOE AD FAST MOVING NIDALEE SPEAR. It just helps him hitting his Q through minions and extending his W'S range.

Saianna1 votes

he already has safe poke. Skill that passs trough minions would destroy his opponents. So no.

I Summons I1 votes

Wouldn't this make AP ez a bit broken? A q + w would have a longer range than w and apply lich, seems a bit 2 stronk

lostbob1171 votes

This may be true, BUT you have to think about it. If AP Ezreal would to Q then W, he'll be dealing more damage overall in a teamfight.

If the single burst one target is too much, we could remove the AP ratio damage. from his W that would add and just add base damage. I think that would be the fairest way to go about making sure AP Ezreal doesn't become a 1shoter with it.

Ezreal Wright1 votes

This may be true, BUT you have to think about it. If AP Ezreal would to Q then W, he'll be dealing more damage overall in a teamfight.

If the single burst one target is too much, we could remove the AP ratio damage. from his W that would add and just add base damage. I think that would be the fairest way to go about making sure AP Ezreal doesn't become a 1shoter with it.

Well, I don't know about this. If AP Ezreal is able to 100-0 you with Q and W for some reasons, I don't why he wouldn't be able to with his W + Q combo. I don't think he needs some damage nerf.

To answer I Summons I's question, it wouldn't make AP Ezreal broken. Why you may ask? Well, because he's still the same as before. His main damage source is his W which already passes through minions. Plus, like I said above, if AP Ezreal is able to one-shot you with W and Q, I don't why he wouldn't do it with W+Q combo (and how would he be able to burst you like that? He has to get freakin fed to do so and late game, you would have at least one magic resist item to counter him).

lostbob1171 votes

Here's the thing though, there's Instaburst you with one shot

OR

Instaburst you with 2shots, but a chance to miss one of them.

Ezreal Wright1 votes

Here's the thing though, there's Instaburst you with one shot

OR

Instaburst you with 2shots, but a chance to miss one of them.

True, you got a point here.

Sightless661 votes

So, for AD Ezreal the basic ideas are to give him a way to shoot Q through minions by spending a bit more mana, and giving him a way to guarantee arcane shift damage goes onto a certain target? The second idea seems interesting, but I'm really not sure the first one is something he needs. A huge part of Ezreal is that his Q gets blocked by minions. Giving him a way to minimize that weakness doesn't really seem valuable. I get that you want to give him choices, but a choice shouldn't just be a way to completely get around a major weakness whenever you want to.

I guess for AP Ez it also gives a way to increase the W range by joining it to the Q. Again, I'm not sure this is valuable. He already has a power spammy poke ability in his Q. The W gives a lot of damage at a medium range, forcing him to actually get in a little bit of risk to get the maximum damage (a risk he can handle because he's Ezreal and can escape). Letting him get the full damage at full range just minimizes that weakness. Again, it just kind of feels like this choice is just giving him a way to eliminate the weaknesses of the first way of fighting whenever he needs to.

It really just kind of seems like your idea is aimed at just taking significant weaknesses Ezreal has, and giving him a way to easily ignore those weaknesses.

Also, the autoattack giving true sight is not necessary in any way. That's just extraneous power without really any point to it. You already have the mark doing two other things. It doesn't need to do more.

Ezreal Wright1 votes

So, for AD Ezreal the basic ideas are to give him a way to shoot Q through minions by spending a bit more mana, and giving him a way to guarantee arcane shift damage goes onto a certain target? The second idea seems interesting, but I'm really not sure the first one is something he needs. A huge part of Ezreal is that his Q gets blocked by minions. Giving him a way to minimize that weakness doesn't really seem valuable. I get that you want to give him choices, but a choice shouldn't just be a way to completely get around a major weakness whenever you want to.

I guess for AP Ez it also gives a way to increase the W range by joining it to the Q. Again, I'm not sure this is valuable. He already has a power spammy poke ability in his Q. The W gives a lot of damage at a medium range, forcing him to actually get in a little bit of risk to get the maximum damage (a risk he can handle because he's Ezreal and can escape). Letting him get the full damage at full range just minimizes that weakness. Again, it just kind of feels like this choice is just giving him a way to eliminate the weaknesses of the first way of fighting whenever he needs to.

It really just kind of seems like your idea is aimed at just taking significant weaknesses Ezreal has, and giving him a way to easily ignore those weaknesses.

Also, the autoattack giving true sight is not necessary in any way. That's just extraneous power without really any point to it. You already have the mark doing two other things. It doesn't need to do more.

For the W + Q combo, we just wanted to give Ezreal something he could do to counter minion blocking and exploit this short moment to poke through minions. For example, let's take Lucian: "We gave a clear weakness by giving him small range, but to compensate, we increased his kiting ability to emphasis his strength". What we wanted to do is to give him the possibility to remove one of his weakness for a moment (here minion blocking) and emphasis his strength more (which is poking for Ezreal).

For the true sight thingy, we just wanted to give him something that would fit his explorer theme well. We could give him only normal sight.

Sightless661 votes

The difference between Lucian's changes and the ones you propose is that Lucian still has his weakness. He has to fight at short range. There isn't a way around that. The kiting is a different strength that doesn't eliminate his weakness. For your changes, you would effectively remove one of the major counters to Ezreal's poke. It's not a good direction. Strengthening his poke is fine (although doing it by eliminating the medium-range weakness of a different ability is questionable). Eliminating the main form of countering his poke is not fine.

To make this more clear: If Lucian is "We gave a clear weakness by giving him small range, but to compensate, we increased his kiting ability to emphasis his strength", then your Ezreal change is "We gave him a clear weakness by allowing his poke to be blocked, but to compensate, we allowed him to choose to make his poke not be blocked." The Lucian strength balances a weakness by giving a strength. Your change balances a weakness by allowing you to choose for it to not actually be a weakness.

As for the true sight, I maintain that it isn't necessary. Normal sight isn't either. I suppose. Thematically, I think it's a fairly weak justification. Gameplay-wise, I think it's superfluous power, similar to how grievous wounds is just slapped on MF W.

Ezreal Wright1 votes

The difference between Lucian's changes and the ones you propose is that Lucian still has his weakness. He has to fight at short range. There isn't a way around that. The kiting is a different strength that doesn't eliminate his weakness. For your changes, you would effectively remove one of the major counters to Ezreal's poke. It's not a good direction. Strengthening his poke is fine (although doing it by eliminating the medium-range weakness of a different ability is questionable). Eliminating the main form of countering his poke is not fine.

To make this more clear: If Lucian is "We gave a clear weakness by giving him small range, but to compensate, we increased his kiting ability to emphasis his strength", then your Ezreal change is "We gave him a clear weakness by allowing his poke to be blocked, but to compensate, we allowed him to choose to make his poke not be blocked." The Lucian strength balances a weakness by giving a strength. Your change balances a weakness by allowing you to choose for it to not actually be a weakness.

As for the true sight, I maintain that it isn't necessary. Normal sight isn't either. I suppose. Thematically, I think it's a fairly weak justification. Gameplay-wise, I think it's superfluous power, similar to how grievous wounds is just slapped on MF W.

Even with the combo, his poke still has a major weakness: The mana cost. Early game, spamming W+Q combos will drain your mana so quickly. I know item 3070 and item 3508 can counter high mana costs, but still, rushing tear doesn't give any power early and essence reaver costs 3200 gold, so you can't have it until ~15:00. We just wanted to find a way for AD Ezreal to have a useful W. And for the sight thingy, Ezreal doesn't really represent his explorer backgroumd very well in his kit. We just wanted to add something which makes him look like an explorer (like Garen's W making a tanky soldier, Draven's passive showing his ego, etc.)

Hope I answered your question.

Sightless661 votes

I'm not really making a question, I'm trying to point out that I don't consider this a good idea, and that is even with taking the cost into consideration. It has a cost, but I don't think it's anywhere near large enough, particularly since items that improve his mana usage tend to be good buys on him anyway. It's a small cost compared to the benefit of completely eliminating a key weakness at will, particularly since you only have to take the cost whenever you want to eliminate the key weakness and it is completely non-existent at all other times.

Regarding the sight, I still don't think that it really screams "explorer". Getting vision of something you're already attacking isn't exploring. It kind of reminds me of how Zilean's Q is "time bomb" just because that's a phrase that has time in it, not because a delayed bomb seems like a thing a time mage would have. It's more akin to a bad pun than something that an explorer actually has. If you actually want sight as an explorer element, look at his ult. It gradually reveals terrain as it passes. That's what an explorer does. What you want is already on his kit, and in a more thematic fashion. You can see how much people don't connotate sight with explorers by how much they don't immediately recognize the vision on that as fulfilling his theme.

I get your goal with the sight, and it's not a bad goal. I just don't think that this method really improves the theme, and I really think it's unnecessary to tack on throwaway mechanics.

Ezreal Wright1 votes

I'm not really making a question, I'm trying to point out that I don't consider this a good idea, and that is even with taking the cost into consideration. It has a cost, but I don't think it's anywhere near large enough, particularly since items that improve his mana usage tend to be good buys on him anyway. It's a small cost compared to the benefit of completely eliminating a key weakness at will, particularly since you only have to take the cost whenever you want to eliminate the key weakness and it is completely non-existent at all other times.

Regarding the sight, I still don't think that it really screams "explorer". Getting vision of something you're already attacking isn't exploring. It kind of reminds me of how Zilean's Q is "time bomb" just because that's a phrase that has time in it, not because a delayed bomb seems like a thing a time mage would have. It's more akin to a bad pun than something that an explorer actually has. If you actually want sight as an explorer element, look at his ult. It gradually reveals terrain as it passes. That's what an explorer does. What you want is already on his kit, and in a more thematic fashion. You can see how much people don't connotate sight with explorers by how much they don't immediately recognize the vision on that as fulfilling his theme.

I get your goal with the sight, and it's not a bad goal. I just don't think that this method really improves the theme, and I really think it's unnecessary to tack on throwaway mechanics.

We kinda rushed the idea of it giving sight yeah, but we wanted to give him something that would show his explorer side.

And for the WQ combo, the mana cost is insane early game. Even with muramana, it'll cost tons of mana to get that poke. First, the huge mana cost on Ezreal's W and second, Muramana's toggle really drains you. If you don't buy Muramana, then it'll be even more painful sue to having no mana regen items.

Hayaishi1 votes

Thank god this won't happen.

lostbob1171 votes

bump

Ezreal Wright1 votes

Here is a schema of what our idea is.

lostbob1171 votes

Oh I was thinking something else.

Ezreal Wright1 votes

Bump

lostbob1171 votes

b

Ezreal Wright1 votes

bump

Ezreal Wright1 votes

Bump

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by lostbob117

So where is Championship Ardent Censer?
General Discussion32 comments
227
votes
When a item like Manamune is transformed it should make a sound/effect
Gameplay24 comments
128
votes
Every Mastery should cost 1 point
Gameplay11 comments
28
votes
FEK Tournament: Nemesis Draft Style - Sign Ups
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous215 comments
25
votes
FEK Tournament: Nemesis Draft - Info, Teams, and Stream
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous160 comments
20
votes
FEK 1v1 Tournament - Info Thread
[ARCHIVED] Miscellaneous145 comments
20
votes