Shiv vs PD on standard ADC build?

Lurkkin·10/4/2015, 7:12:25 PM·1 votes·673 views

I always was under the impression that ADC's such as Jinx, Trist, Graves, Sivir, Cait, Vayne, etc (pretty much anything that isn't Corki or Kalista) build PD second due to the fact that it simply offers better stats then Shiv, the only time I usually by Shiv is if I am dangerously behind and simply just need an item, can outright buy it after a back and would have to wait too long to get PD, or if my team has a severe lack of wave clear.

However at worlds I have noticed tons of ADC's buying Avarice instead of PD and building into shiv. Is this because they tend to power farm more making the passive better? I have also noticed the 5v5 meta favoring early game pressure so is the fact it is cheaper what makes it better? Any explanation or advice would be greatly appreciated.

10 Comments

Chuck Charles10/4/2015, 7:15:31 PM2 votes

pretty short summary to make it easier on you.

Shiv when you get an early avarice and want to rush an earlier power spike (or when you just want to spike earlier anyway)

the reason? it is cheaper and the avarice speeds up getting the shiv as well as your zerker boots.

phantom dancer when you were not able to rush the avarice as a crit cloak is more gold efficient than avarice if you don't get time to use avarice passive. not to mentoin the phantom dancer is just a stronger item overall.

shiv spikes sooner, phantom dancer is stronger overall. always sell shiv for PD come late game. if feeling ballsy and confident sell boots for another PD.

Lastly, on ad casters like lucian and bursty people like graves depending on the game you may not need a PD or shiv at all. If you are against a mostly squishy comp that you can melt quickly in short team fights, ghostblade is the way to go. 20 armor pen is not to be understated and the active is pretty good.

Mimy10/4/2015, 7:20:35 PM2 votes

I build item 3087 when I ADC as Kennen because...

IT'S Kennen item 3087

ScriptBrand10/4/2015, 7:22:49 PM1 votes

PD is always stronger. situations in which you build shiv first is when you are behind in farm or, personally for me, when i play jinx because it synergizes well with her aoe. shiv is also better at waveclear and burst dmg.

ModWulf Helhammer10/4/2015, 7:43:45 PM1 votes

Shiv gives more burst, making it ideal for champions like Quinn and Yasuo. The other main things about it are the wave clear help and the cheaper cost.

Sire Hippington10/4/2015, 10:24:21 PM1 votes

PD in generall is far better for soloQ. Shiv adds some waveclear, and mostly an earlyer Powerspike, so pros favor it since they can play around that spike and value that little bit of waveclear. They also usually have an support with zeke's, kinda lowering the difference in crit between PD and SS But once you get PD, it'S just far steronger than SS, and since people in solo-Q rarly play around powerspikes, getting that second item 1 or 2 mins faster isn't as important. If pros get shiv and the opponent still needs to complete his PD, they can use that advantage to force an objective on way or another, in soloQ it might mean your PD carry trys to 1v1 the completed shiv and fails, but rarly more.

Aditionally, shiv adds some more burst, and in worlds you oftern see teams aearly-mid haveing 3-4 man catches/dives, so bursting a target down rather than a drawn out fight in which the superior dps of PD wouls shine.

you also often saw people get it then falling behind, as they can pick avaric early, since they don't try to trade anyway but rather focus on farming savely, and usually because they had to back without enough gold for a BF. In that case, the gp/10 from an early averic and the overall cheaper built helps to catch up midgame

Fiveofswords10/4/2015, 7:14:07 PM1 votes

phandom dancer is always superior to shiv but shiv lets you farm for a bit with avarice blade and is cheaper overall...so its basically a common stopgap. in very late game however msot adc would prefer to sell the shiv for pd

you wouldnt want to go avarice blade when you are behind however...because theres zero power spike. it will make you more behind and probably jsut shut out of farming altogether. Its more of a thing to do when you are actually ahead and doing well. If behind, get another dorans blade.

NemeBro10/4/2015, 10:29:18 PM1 votes

Champions that get a lot of mileage out of the extra burst of Shiv tend to prefer it.

It's why Yasuo and Tryndamere tend to get Shiv instead of PD (that and the wave clear). That, and the proc can crit (which is part of its burst I suppose).

iWicinna10/4/2015, 7:17:41 PM1 votes

Pretty much echoing what the post before me says, but Shiv is innately 300g cheaper than PD without considering gold gained from Avarice passive.

Also, when Shiv passive procs, each of the bolts also have the chance to crit. So early game shiv provides better waveclear, possible multiple crits on a single auto and is cheaper.

Late game the single target dmg of PD is far better or if significantly ahead early in soloq. However, competitive games almost never make it to this point.