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Riot I want a legitamate talk on Teemo

Chespin2013··4 votes·833 views

Warning this is a post about serious discussion in terms of balance of a champion if your just here to use a Teemo hate joke than please leave it provides nothing to discussion and the joke died years ago. Now onto the discussion on hand I'm sure we are all aware of the so called "buff" to Teemo and how it more or less was a nerf. 2 things have happened with this change that made Teemo winrate and strength of a champion much weaker. 1. His duration of his shrooms was reduced by half from 10 mins to 5 mins. Many would argue that this was justified since 10 mins is considered a long time but in terms of Teemo's identity the ability to scout around the map and use his shrooms as a means of contesting objectives even tho there is counterplay to this by sweepers and pinks which are fairly cheap buy and use. 2. The armtime is what truly hurt Teemo the most. Yes Teemo can throw his shrooms now but its so easy to see it coming a mile away and anyone with a brain can easily sidestep it and by throwing his shrooms he is more or less a sitting duck for the enemy to jump on if they so wished.

What I want is a answer to my question here why were these changes treated as buffs when they were not? If any of you been to reddit you would know that IvanPavlov known to be the top Teemo player in the world made a post about these changes and how Riot Phreak came and tried to convince everyone it was a buff but in reality it was not. This is not a Riot hate post by any means, this is a post of asking why these changes were treated this way and what could we do in the future to fix them? I felt like these recent changes to champions where adding gimmicks and minigames are starting to get out of hand. It's not that I don't like how Riot is trying to make champions more fun to play its that these changes will be added no matter what all for the sake new gameplay and how champions with these will get nerfed or their identity being destroyed in the process. I just want a civil discussion here and hopefully a reds opinion on this whole matter would be greatly appreciated.

9 Comments

TehNACHO3 votes

Would really help to spell legitimate correctly.

I'm 90% sure I remember the Teemo changes to be sold as a minor rework, not straight buffs.

vDg6VF2ghd4 votes

{quoted}

Would really help to spell legitimate correctly.

I'm 90% sure I remember the Teemo changes to be sold as a minor rework, not straight buffs.

In practice they are almost certainly nerfs.

Eedat1 votes

I think the Teemo changes made sense. Having a 5 minute timer on his shrooms makes a ton of sense. This makes his zone control limited to where he is on the map. It never made sense for him to have zone control over the entire map. To compensate they made it safer to lay his shrooms by not having to facecheck every bush you want to shroom

vDg6VF2ghd1 votes

{quoted}

I think the Teemo changes made sense. Having a 5 minute timer on his shrooms makes a ton of sense. This makes his zone control limited to where he is on the map. It never made sense for him to have zone control over the entire map. To compensate they made it safer to lay his shrooms by not having to facecheck every bush you want to shroom

What about the delay timer on shrooms? It makes the effectivness of teemo 1v1 incredibly nerfed.

Eedat1 votes

His shrooms are supposed to be traps. It never made sense that he could just drop one on you at point blank range and it would detonate it

vDg6VF2ghd3 votes

{quoted}

His shrooms are supposed to be traps. It never made sense that he could just drop one on you at point blank range and it would detonate it

If this is how Riot feels then fine. But they are short-sighted if they believe that the Teemo tweaks are shifting power laterally into more interesting abilities. Teemos don't care about the shrooms, they care about the fact that the changes destroyed his 1v1 game too and that is why Teemo is just so incredibly weak right now. Riot should have buffed something about his 1v1 close quarters combat to make up for the fact that Teemo has had an ability which was essential to his close quarters combat(shrooms) nerfed into the ground. Its damage was halved some patches ago and now there is a delay on activating as well as half the the uptime. Riot did all this to balance Teemo's shrooms but gave him nothing in return. He is extremely weak and for the first time since I started playing league with Teemo many years ago I am genuinely not having fun with him. He has been destroyed.

Legendary Albert1 votes

people on low Divisions find Teemo very toxic and anti fun, no one uses trinkets or wards so.. it's not like Riot hates Teemo, and it's not the first time they lie to the community, they done stuff like this in the past. many think these nerfs are part of future rework with a new item or miner buffs that will tune him in a good way, which is why they nerfed him right now (to see if the new R works well)

Mia Hanoka1 votes

Lets start off this with I dont hate teemo I hate how ever one needs to have teemo be and incredible duelist. that said teemo is not a duelist teemo and should not be able to drop shroom and win engagements when he is jumped on.

Teemo and his identity is that of a scout that been said he has one of the most strongest ultis in the game a ward that grants vision, area denial, and heavy damage if built a certain way. do I like what happened to teemo arming time? yes. do I hate teemo? no. why? cause it forces you only teemo players to think about your next action. 6 out of 10 times your jumped on is not an instant death due to your kit and if the enemy is a burst caster or AA type. if you think about how they set up your shrooms now it actually works to the benefit of teemo players.

your shrooms have an arm time and can be thrown 1 sec away from you I know this cause I have timed it. when an AA champion jumps on you can have an on click blind that stops them from killing you cause yeah if they are blind they are not hurting you. next you throw your shroom not at your feet but behind you in the direction you want to escape to. by doing that your setting up your escape route and they are likly not paying attention to what is happening 1 second away from you and them. run that way. either they noticed the shroom being thrown that way and avoid it giving you time to get further away OR they did not see it happen and they chase you through the shroom.

Mia Hanoka1 votes

Teemo is not a dualist he is a scout. honestly this should have been the mentality for him all along HOWEVER when teemo was made there was only so many champions to pick from and not having damage in two skills would have been a drag back then in S1. Now however utilty ulti's are becoming more and more a thing and I think it would be a good change to reallocate the damage of the shroom to teemos Q and E while making the shroom more utility based and scout like.

I have recommended these two changes in another teemo post and some agree it makes sense cause it is a bit over the top how loaded teemo ulti is.

before I share here is some math you can look at 5 minute timers on shrooms give you 19 shrooms that provide vision, zoning by association, and pending build heavy damage. that is not counting teemos ability to by 3 stealth wards 21 ward like objects and a pink ward 22 ward like objects. if we increase the duration to 10 like before or even 8 minutes lets look at the number of ward like objects he can place for 10 minutes its 37 shrooms 3 S wards and 1 P ward for 41 points of vision on the map if teemo plants a shroom every chance he gets in vital choke points and key locations. keep in mind your shroom does not have to go off to be effective cause just knowing where a champion is or not is power. no single champion or team there of could hope to counter out teemos visual coverage even if they all took upgraded red trinket that gives a 6 second stationary ward/trap reveal and a 10 second true sight.

now for 8 minutes 29 shroom 3 wards and 1 pink total ward like objects 33 that is a lot to sneeze at as well and gives your team a massive edge even if the enemy team bought red sightstones and a pink ward each time they backed the total coverage they could get is 15 wards 5 pink ward and an item that is pointless on ADC and APC. also keep in mind these wards dont provide natural interdiction or zoning by association power.

Now for my recommendations for changes:

its going to be a loss of one thing or another in my mind and frankly I dont care which.

  1. take the damage that teemo gets in the shrooms and put it into the rest of his kit then expand the sight range increase the slows power and MAYBE give it an MR reduction as well as reveal stealth if the shroom pops on them. keep the 1 second trigger time on placed shrooms then make the bouncing shroom thing trigger on enemy if the bounce hits an enemy.

I like this one cause it makes teemo a scout and can give him dueling power with the rest of his kit. also makes the bouncing shroom thing not as worthless for you guys.

  1. take away the vision it grants and remove the dots on the mini map of where the shrooms are and increase the slowing power. keep the 1 second activation timer give the bounce a trigger on enemies it contacts. When a shroom pops in the fog of war it still disappears letting you know if you look that its missing.

I like this one as well why? your 19 current max shrooms are not telling you anything any more you can watch for the missing shrooms in the fog to be sure if the enemy is coming.

long winded I know but my honest thoughts on what teemo should be either drop the "he is a scout" bs and make him a tactical duelist or reenforce the scout persona and redistribute the damage to the rest of his kit from the shrooms.

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