Previously her strategic role was providing intense early game pressure due to the enemy team being unaware of where Eve was at all times due to her perma-stealth.
With that gone until she hits level 6, what exactly is she supposed to be bringing to her team that other AP Junglers (like, say Elise) don't bring to the table?
Shuyin1786 votesStealth when she does finally hit 6. Extreme arousal for the person using her because of her voice over. Bronze Spectate clips of people trying Eve for the 1st time and ulting early causing the prey to live.
You know, the important stuff.
MoldyCheese12 votesassassination, diving, ect.
Rebonack1 votesassassination, diving, ect.
Elise pretty explicitly does both of those things.
MoldyCheese11 votesElise pretty explicitly does both of those things.
elise is made for the early to mid game and falls off dumbfoundingly hard. so evelynn will need to keep consistency in the mid to late game.
Rebonack2 voteselise is made for the early to mid game and falls off dumbfoundingly hard. so evelynn will need to keep consistency in the mid to late game.
The only successful hyper-scaling AP champ Riot ever fashioned was AP Kog, and they wrecked his shit for being a hyper-scaling AP champ. Nearly every other AP champ starts off strong and then drops as the clock ticks. A few plateaued mid game and droped off late. That's simply the nature of AP scaling.
If they wanted her to cover mid to late game, they probably should have made her a Skirmisher instead of an Assassin.
Better yet, they shouldn't have totally destroyed her niche in the first place.
MoldyCheese11 votesThe only successful hyper-scaling AP champ Riot ever fashioned was AP Kog, and they wrecked his shit for being a hyper-scaling AP champ. Nearly every other AP champ starts off strong and then drops as the clock ticks. A few plateaued mid game and droped off late. That's simply the nature of AP scaling.
If they wanted her to cover mid to late game, they probably should have made her a Skirmisher instead of an Assassin.
Better yet, they shouldn't have totally destroyed her niche in the first place.
cant remove a niche if there is nothing majorly wrong with it, yorick got his gutted for the most part because he was legit spawn monster, swain his kit gutted because it has no sort of tactical feel, its legit 3 aoe and a click.
eve just needs an ability update because shes just bland and toxic to the game.
Lord of Math2 votes
Get game knowledge and get good scrub.
Rebonack1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord of Math,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2017-09-27T04:39:35.875+0000)
Ryze peaks mid-late and drops off late game, but not by much comparatively speaking. And like all the other AP champs who do this, he's equipped with absolutely crazy sustained magic damage. Eve doesn't have those tools, not unless her Q is sitting pretty at a 2 second cooldown. She's not a Skirmisher or a Battlemage. She's an AP Assassin.
And for what it's worth, there are VERY few true hyper-scalers that only get stronger the longer the game runs.
Lord of Math1 votesI was joking and did not mean to insult you btw. Also champions that get stronger he longer the game runs 
Rebonack1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord of Math,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T05:17:21.677+0000)
I was joking and did not mean to insult you btw. Also champions that get stronger he longer the game runs
I didn't take it as an insult, so no worries.
Cho does in fact hyper-scale. Bard and Sion do gain power with time, but their success in the late game doesn't really spike the way that Cho or Twitch or Yi does. All the champs that hyper-scale have kit components that stack exponentially with each other in some capacity. Whether that be through raw damage (Yi) or damage combined with durability (Cho).
For example, shortly after Kogger's remake, when his W bonus damage scaled with his total AD, he actually hyper-scaled. The longer the game got, the more insane his damage grew. After his W went back to flat damage, his success curve peaked around mid-game and leveled off late. He doesn't keep growing because his major damage source doesn't get any stronger after Rageblade.
People still consider him a 'hyper-carry' though. Honestly, he isn't. He's at his BEST around mid-game when he maxed W, got his second item, and has a whole team protecting him. And that's really how it should be. If he didn't kick in until late, then why would you want to build a team around him since the game would already be over? If Riot every remade him into a true hyper-carry, he would probably need to be a bit more self-reliant.
But if he were more self-reliant, he wouldn't be Kog, would he?
Lord of Math1 votes
does not get stronger as the game goes on though. He hits full build and then he is at max damage, while actually gains dmg the longer the game goes.
chipndip11 votesEve is better with ap champs though.
She's also a safer pick, as she has an out option.
chipndip12 votesAfter level 6, she's great at landing picks. Kind of like Elise.
Unlike Elise, she has strong synergy with mages and ap-damage champions. Her new W reduces MR.
She's an ap assassin jungler. Do we have any of those that are viable...or at all? I don't think Nid's classified as an assassin anymore more than she's a unique play style.
She's an ACTUAL assassin now, complete with an escape tool. Heel-toe'ing out of a fight is what divers do. Assassins jump out. She now jumps out.
Rebonack1 votes
After level 6, she's great at landing picks. Kind of like Elise.
Unlike Elise, she has strong synergy with mages and ap-damage champions. Her new W reduces MR.
She's an ap assassin jungler. Do we have any of those that are viable...or at all? I don't think Nid's classified as an assassin anymore more than she's a unique play style.
She's an ACTUAL assassin now, complete with an escape tool. Heel-toe'ing out of a fight is what divers do. Assassins jump out. She now jumps out.
This is, in fact, part of what I'm worried about.
Eve (sort of), Shaco, Elise, and Nid have all filled the role of Jungle AP Assassin at various times. But every time we have a successful Jungle AP Assassin, they typically eat massive nerfs until they end up being early game pressure only, an AD Bruiser thing, or shoved right out of viability. That kind of burst damage doesn't seem to sit well with the player-base when it comes flying at you out of the Jungle.
Blade of Justic1 votes
- She's an ACTUAL assassin now, complete with an escape tool. Heel-toe'ing out of a fight is what divers do. Assassins jump out. She now jumps out.
ummm....
Having stealth pre-6 let to a lot of non intuitive gameplay for the enemy players (Warding camps is the optimal thing to do agaisnt her.) Since this was non intuitive many players don't do it against Eve, yet we have to balance her for the optimal case where players do know how to play against Eve early. It is part of why we had to make her more of a diver than a Assassin.
Colton1472 votes
Dope Solo1 votesWait, what? They fuck-ruined her passive?
MoldyCheese11 votesWait, what? They fuck-ruined her passive?
??? After avoiding combat for a few seconds, Evelynn is enveloped by Demon Shade. If Evelynn's health is low, she'll recover it quickly while this ability is active. Starting at level 6, Demon Shade also grants camouflage—this makes Evelynn hidden from view to all except nearby enemy champions, control wards, and turrets.
they changed it it wasnt ruined, she gets a fuck ton of hp when shes out of combat fixing her dying issue in the jungle.
Dope Solo1 votesNot being seen before 6 was her only defense.
MoldyCheese11 votesNot being seen before 6 was her only defense.
defense?
it was here cheese, she was made to be unseen and apply mental pressure and secure an early-ish lead with cheap shots, it complemented her kit because it has no cc as the new one does.
Dope Solo1 votesYeah I'm calling FAIL. You had 1 job Riot, 1. Did you see how her ultimate essentially does ZERO damage to champs at full health? Champions at low health is different, but...ok? Who the fuck cares about chipping down a champ thats already at low health?
MoldyCheese11 votesYeah I'm calling FAIL. Also, did you see how her ultimate essentially does ZERO damage to champs at full health? Champions at low health is different, but...ok? Who the fuck cares about a champ at low health?
well, to be fair, in the show abilities video, they usually dont buy items.
Rebonack1 votesYeah I'm calling FAIL. Also, did you see how her ultimate essentially does ZERO damage to champs at full health? Champions at low health is different, but...ok? Who the fuck cares about a champ at low health?
Assassins, typically.
Charm, E, Hatespike a few times, then Ult out.
I just hate it so much. Hasn't Riot learned anything from Knifecat? There's no way to make kits like this work without nerfing the shit out of them or making everyone in the game hate existence.
Blade of Justic3 votesYeah I'm calling FAIL. You had 1 job Riot, 1. Did you see how her ultimate essentially does ZERO damage to champs at full health? Champions at low health is different, but...ok? Who the fuck cares about chipping down a champ thats already at low health?
Her E does % max health damage.
Her ult does % missing health damage.
Her Q does burst damage.
Pick your flavor.
MoldyCheese11 votesYeah I'm calling FAIL. You had 1 job Riot, 1. Did you see how her ultimate essentially does ZERO damage to champs at full health? Champions at low health is different, but...ok? Who the fuck cares about chipping down a champ thats already at low health?
Who walks up to someone and just ults when the ult does more damage when someone is low?
Dope Solo1 votesLooking at this , I actually prefer Eve's old Ult. It was a reliable engage that she could then opt to stay in or get out of. Now she Ult's and ...then what? She's still in range to get blasted by MF. The first video where she flashes in and blinks back over the wall is a christmas scenario. What do you do the other 90% of the time?
Blade of Justic1 votesLooking at this , I actually prefer Eve's old Ult. It was a reliable engage that she could then opt to stay in or get out of. Now she Ult's and ...then what? She's still in range to get blasted by MF.
Upon ult activation, Evelynn primes a spot behind her and jumps to it after attacking. During her ult, she's untargetable. There's no point in her ult that she's a sitting duck outside of if she teleports right into the enemy team after attacking.
Dope Solo1 votesYeah, at the end of it. Which, puts her in range of a lot.
Blade of Justic1 votesYeah, at the end of it. Which, puts her in range of a lot.
Or out of range of a lot.
It really depends on how good the player is.
Bears Dont Care1 votesLooking at this , I actually prefer Eve's old Ult. It was a reliable engage that she could then opt to stay in or get out of. Now she Ult's and ...then what? She's still in range to get blasted by MF. The first video where she flashes in and blinks back over the wall is a christmas scenario. What do you do the other 90% of the time?
I don't agree with you...Eve's current ultimate means she goes in and she STAYS in. She has no means of escape outside her W and that only works on cleansing slows. Its why most Eve's tend to go bruiser AP or bruiser AD. Assassin Eve is popular but not the best for a game where everything keeps more CC and mobility heavy.
[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-27T05:36:49.799+0000)
Her kit is a lot better, but yeah her passive was butchered.
Agreed, I prefer the mana regen to be honest...but her camo is a bit more effective since its not like it is currently where you're seen before you can attack. Now she can gapclose shortly after and stay onh er target.
Lord of Math1 votesIt gives riot the option to give her some power to the rest of her kit. I expect that her Q is more powerful than previously.
Dope Solo1 votesYeah I don't really know how that rationale applies when her damage was already low. You had to hit your target with about everything before you could expect a kill if you were even or even slight to moderately ahead. Why does no one ever ask how the power to Zed's broken AF kit is distributed?
Lord of Math1 votesBecause if she was even and could delete people from stealth she would be pure cancer and would shit on everything that has not built a tank item. Now she gets some mobility and some CC.
Dope Solo2 votesYet despite this 'would be' Eve wasn't strong enough to make much of an impact, and having to use everything was fine. Meanwhile...
Riot can't find the time to fix this pos? You know, something that's actually game breaking.
Blade of Justic1 votesthey changed it it wasnt ruined, she gets a fuck ton of hp when shes out of combat fixing her dying issue in the jungle.
To be fair, she only gains that health back while OUT of combat and I've seen the regen rate, it's not that great. I'd say it's actually worse than 
's regen while underground. At best, it will help her heal a bit on the way to a gank or after just surviving a fight. But that regen's gonna need to be a whole lot more effective if it's gonna activate after a few seconds of me moving from blue to wolves.
MoldyCheese11 votes[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-09-27T04:36:12.808+0000)
To be fair, she only gains that health back while OUT of combat and I've seen the regen rate, it's not that great. I'd say it's actually worse than
i mean, reksai gets short bursts of healing. shes going to heal from all camps AND heal more in between raptors to wolves.
Blade of Justic1 votesi mean, reksai gets short bursts of healing. shes going to heal from all camps AND heal more in between raptors to wolves.
I mean, that's why new Evelynn's is worse.
MoldyCheese11 votes[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T04:40:40.678+0000)
I mean, that's why new Evelynn's is worse.
reksai also cant heal if a gank fails and she has to walk off.
its a time investment, not a lower the damage i take slightly.
Blade of Justic1 votesreksai also cant heal if a gank fails and she has to walk off.
its a time investment, not a lower the damage i take slightly.
The problem still remains that after fighting blue buff, she needs to wait 2 seconds to activate her heal, then wait for however amount of time for the heal to heal her to a respectable amount.
When you're clearing your jungle, you're not going to wait 5 seconds before starting the next camp unless you're looking to put yourself behind.
I sincerely hope Riot doesn't expect her passive to keep her alive while doing camps and that she actually has respectable damage on her Q.
Bears Dont Care1 votes[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T04:47:05.775+0000)
The problem still remains that after fighting blue buff, she needs to wait 2 seconds to activate her heal, then wait for however amount of time for the heal to heal her to a respectable amount.
When you're clearing your jungle, you're not going to wait 5 seconds before starting the next camp unless you're looking to put yourself behind.
I sincerely hope Riot doesn't expect her passive to keep her alive while doing camps and that she actually has respectable damage on her Q.
She doesn't need to wait if you know how to play her to begin with... Raptors...kite em and then go do red...then golems...back since you're par way to 4... kill blue for level 4, go gank. Very quick and easy to do. Health regen means she doesnt need to back after golems.
Heck ou can do blue, toad, go straight to red from there
Blade of Justic1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=00020000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T05:35:02.980+0000)
She doesn't need to wait if you know how to play her to begin with... Raptors...kite em and then go do red...then golems...back since you're par way to 4... kill blue for level 4, go gank. Very quick and easy to do. Health regen means she doesnt need to back after golems.
Heck ou can do blue, toad, go straight to red from there
Kiting has nothing to do with it.
If you are in combat, you don't regen health. If you leave combat, you need to wait about 2 seconds in order to start regening. That's what I'm talking about. How her regen works has nothing to do with how well you do camps.
Now, if you're talking about just not getting hit, that's another thing that has nothing to do with her out of combat regen, that's just her kit being good enough that you don't need to worry about the regen in the first place.
Bears Dont Care1 votes[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=000200000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T11:33:35.915+0000)
Kiting has nothing to do with it.
Kiting has everything to do with it.
If you are in combat, you don't regen health. If you leave combat, you need to wait about 2 seconds in order to start regening. That's what I'm talking about. How her regen works has nothing to do with how well you do camps.
Now, if you're talking about just not getting hit, that's another thing that has nothing to do with her out of combat regen, that's just her kit being good enough that you don't need to worry about the regen in the first place.
You're too focused on the idea you'll be relying on your regen in between camps which is the wrong view. You need to consider how the passive is a factor OUTSIDE of the jungle. When you add it with the amulet you have both health regen and mana regen to help pick you up before you go for the gank pre-6.
Eve's current passive doesn't even provide health regen right now, just mana regen and no one is complaining about it because the regen is a non-factor in the jungle. You're complaining about something that has never been a factor when it comes to jungling. Eve's passive is purely designed with ganking in mind, and if you believe you're going to move from one camp to a gank in less than the time for your passive to come up, then I think you are overestimating how quickly you can get to the lanes.
Blade of Justic1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T16:22:55.077+0000)
Kiting has everything to do with it.
You're too focused on the idea you'll be relying on your regen in between camps which is the wrong view. You need to consider how the passive is a factor OUTSIDE of the jungle. When you add it with the amulet you have both health regen and mana regen to help pick you up before you go for the gank pre-6.
Eve's current passive doesn't even provide health regen right now, just mana regen and no one is complaining about it because the regen is a non-factor in the jungle. You're complaining about something that has never been a factor when it comes to jungling. Eve's passive is purely designed with ganking in mind, and if you believe you're going to move from one camp to a gank in less than the time for your passive to come up, then I think you are overestimating how quickly you can get to the lanes.
So... you essentially agreed with me that the passive regen isn't going to help with her jungle clearing and is mostly for moving to and from ganks.
Because that was my main point.
Bears Dont Care1 votes[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=00020000000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T20:13:12.503+0000)
So... you essentially agreed with me that the passive regen isn't going to help with her jungle clearing and is mostly for moving to and from ganks.
Because that was my main point.
That wasn't your main point, don't shift the goal post. Your main point is that you're stating "Eve's passive is good for her jungle clearing right now and this is a nerf." I am stating that her passive was NEVER good for jungling in terms of its regen ability and to behave as if it was is completely incorrect.
Blade of Justic1 votes[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=000200000001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-29T19:03:02.518+0000)
That wasn't your main point, don't shift the goal post. Your main point is that you're stating "Eve's passive is good for her jungle clearing right now and this is a nerf." I am stating that her passive was NEVER good for jungling in terms of its regen ability and to behave as if it was is completely incorrect.
Please quote where I said that.
This is the original post that I was responding to:
{quoted} they changed it it wasnt ruined, she gets a fuck ton of hp when shes out of combat fixing her dying issue in the jungle.
And my reply was:
[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-09-27T04:36:12.808+0000)
To be fair, she only gains that health back while OUT of combat and I've seen the regen rate, it's not that great. I'd say it's actually worse than
I was making the claim that her new passive was not going to be enough to keep her alive while going from camp to camp and that she would need more than that to stay alive in the jungle.
As it turns out, her new kit bursts for a lot, so she's fine.
Bears Dont Care1 votes[{quoted}](name=Blade of Justic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuuAUrmi,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-29T20:47:57.000+0000)
I was making the claim that her new passive was not going to be enough to keep her alive while going from camp to camp and that she would need more than that to stay alive in the jungle.
And again, she does not NEED it. The current evelynn do raptors, red, golems with ease if it is done properly WITHOUT the healing passive from her new one. It isn't an issue to even consider.
As it turns out, her new kit bursts for a lot, so she's fine.
Completely unrelated towards her jungling aspect.
Dope Solo1 votesTo say nothing about the lost mana regen. FAIL.
MoldyCheese12 votesTo say nothing about the lost mana regen. FAIL.
Hate Spike (Q) 8 sec Cooldown Cost: 55/60/65/70/75 Mana Range Evelynn's Lasher strikes in the target direction, dealing 25/30/35/40/45 (+30% AP) magic damage to the first unit hit and causing Evelynn's next 3 spells or attacks on that unit deal 10/20/30/40/50 (+25% AP) bonus magic damage. Then, Evelynn can recast this ability up to 3 times. Recast: Fires spikes through the nearest enemy, dealing 25/30/35/40/45 (+30% AP) magic damage to all units hit. Refunds 60% of Hate Spike's cooldown if the Lasher hits a monster. Hate Spike prioritizes the target Evelynn is attacking.
Allure (W) 14/13/12/11/10 sec Cooldown Cost: 60/70/80/90/100 Mana Range Curses target champion or monster for 5 seconds. If Evelynn hits the target with a basic attack or ability, she will expunge the Curse, refund its mana cost, and briefly slow the target by 65% If the Curse lasts at least 2.5 seconds, expunging it Charms the target for 1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2. second(s) and: Against champions: shreds Magic Resist by 25/27.5/30/32.5/35% for 4 seconds. Against monsters: deals 250/300/350/400/450 (+60% AP) magic damage. Charm duration increased by 2 seconds. Casting Allure does not remove Evelynn from Demon Shade.
Whiplash (E) 8 sec Cooldown Cost: 40/45/50/55/60 Mana Range Whip target with Lashers, applying on hit effects and dealing magic damage equal to 30/45/60/75/90 plus 4% (+3% AP) of their max health. Then, gain 30% movement speed for 2 seconds. Entering Demon Shade resets Whiplash's cooldown and empowers it. When empowered, Whiplash pulls Evelynn to her target, dealing magic damage to them and enemies in the way equal to 60/80/100/120/140 plus 6% (+4% AP) of their max health.
Last Caress (R) 140/110/80 sec Cooldown Cost: 100 Mana Range Evelynn unleashes her demonic energy, becoming untargetable and decimating enemies in front of her. She then warps backwards. Deals 150/275/400 (+75% AP) magic damage, increased to 300/550/800 (+150% AP) to enemies below 30% health.
all shes got now SHHHHHHHHHHHH
Rebonack1 votesall shes got now SHHHHHHHHHHHH
I'm seeing here about a 4ish total AP ratio, nasty.
But the underlying issue still exists. AP champs that don't drop off mid-late game have been a balance nightmare for Riot. If that's really the niche Riot is aiming for (better than nothing, I guess) then it'll be interesting if nothing else to see how it works out.