Zed, His Lack of Weaknesses, and Seeker's Armguard

Emo Twink··93 votes·20,067 views

I know there's always a ton of threads complaining about Zed but he has a lot of frustrating features in his kit, and could use some tuning so laning against him isn't as much of a chore as Yasuo.

He lacks much weaknesses early on and feels so irritating to go against.

  1. Not suffering mana issues
  2. Good waveclear (especially for an assassin)
  3. Can get hexdrinker into a rough matchup and be almost unkillable while mages can't do the same (suffer mana issues, seekers is useless)
  4. Post-lv 3 can all in any squishy from full health (electrocute + ignite, his passive damage etc). Maybe a problem with electrocute but one small combo and hell just kill them or send them back easily.
  5. To not die so easily to prior point, stand back and he hard zones any squishy.
  6. A great roamer, esp with youmuus and his mobility.
  7. People act like killing someone is high skill when its just button mashing with his ult, easier to hit than it's made out to be. Does a ton more of damage.

I don't know, I'm just another whiny person like everyone else on gameplay boards. He can snowball hard, and even though as soon as he gets to late game he struggles more, he is just so frustrating to deal with and go against. Maybe it's electrocute's damage pre-6 that makes it rougher, but even at 6 he can easily all in cuz his ult is on click and increases damage from all his abilities which are easily hit onto it, so dying to it feels unfair. It's an ult, it should do decent damage but either have more damage relying on his ult and decrease from his other abilities, or use the ult as more of a mobility and rely on damage from his q or something.

He needs some proper weaknesses, falling off late game isn't much of one. Even a decent weakness would just be buffing seeker's armguard. It needs its armor to stack through farming, and doesn't offer or block much damage either. It needs a better passive to protect mages against AD champs. If mages are going to suffer major mana issues from not going lost chapter, seekers needs worth the purchase.

"Then go stopwatch" is another point, but it's single use, and once you use it youll need to buy seekers straight after for some protection at least, until zhonyas. But that delays mana building so much, and means you've died, or been poked out, so much.

Just I hope these made sense. Zed has a major lack of weaknesses early, and is so infuriating to go against. Seekers, the anti-ad item for mages doesn't protect as much as it should, and either one should be looked at to increase counterplay. Magic resist is much stronger than armor, so it's easier to counter ap assassins by just a null cloak, but armor is both weaker than it, and lethality cancels it out. There's barely any protective options around for mages, and I'm honestly surprised it wasnt touched during mage rework.

161 Comments

Aerial Queen Liz29 votes

I just ban him if I'm on an ADC or a Mage, there's no real solution to come on top when he ults in a 1vs1, you always need a tank or a support to peel for you and cc him...

chipndip18 votes

...so like any assassin?

Votable Jester10 votes

Harder to prevent Zed from getting on you than other assassins (besides Khazix, and fuck that champ).

FilDaFunk1 votes

Which is it more difficult to keep away?

Votable Jester2 votes

Kha, since he can go up to you completely invisible whereas Zed can at least be seen and reacted to.

Heckin Support23 votes

{quoted}

...so like any assassin?

While I agree that late game an assassin should be able to pick off people in a 1v1, his early game is too safe. His poke/wave clear/safety is too high.

saltran18 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wswn4ezA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-01T15:01:16.251+0000)

https://pics.me.me/boiledthesenoodlesin-your-midlaners-tears-13827307.png

Zed always has a place in the Boards circlejerk, doesn't matter if it's adc meta, mage meta, tank or bruisers meta there will always be threads crying about him.

Zed genius12 votes

{quoted}

Zed always has a place in the Boards circlejerk, doesn't matter if it's adc meta, mage meta, tank or bruisers meta there will always be threads crying about him.

yep

Emo Twink21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wswn4ezA,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T15:23:55.798+0000)

yep

Honestly I know it's just repeating what has always been said. Maybe change him a bit and shift power but the main thing I want is just seekers armguard or even hexdrinker modified.

Zed genius5 votes

really not much point trying to discuss with you lol

Emo Twink25 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wswn4ezA,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T15:34:27.939+0000)

really not much point trying to discuss with you lol

ok i was just trying to be nice but whatever

Zed genius7 votes

passively aggressively downvotes all my replies "Hey dude i was trying to be nice"

Emo Twink23 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wswn4ezA,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T15:45:36.622+0000)

passively aggressively downvotes all my replies "Hey dude i was trying to be nice"

wasnt me who did it originally i just added to it cuz u were a jerk

Zed genius10 votes

Yes dude! Your logic is flawless and everything you say makes absolute sense and should be taken and treated seriously!

Alex h872128 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wswn4ezA,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T15:48:45.909+0000)

Yes dude! Your logic is flawless and everything you say makes absolute sense and should be taken and treated seriously!

to be fair you aren't making any points either, just memeing

Zed genius9 votes

Eeexactly, I know people hate zed, so they aren't going to read my points anyway, so why would I bother? I have tried to reason with QQ posts for a very long time and it just has the same result lul, I might as well just meme around

LightIsMyPath16 votes

Hello! I am a noob Lux main. I would love to hear your point instead and suggestion on what to do in lane to avoid getting flash ulted ignited and die. And how to manage the wave given I can't shove it until I have a completed luden?

Zed genius14 votes

In that specific matchup you need to poke him in the first 3 levels, your goal is to get him out of lane there and you will be able to be ahead of him if you manage that. When he hits level 6 if you are 50% hp or less you can't stay in lane if he has summs and ult up unless your jungler or support is nearby. You can shove the waves without having to one shot backline with luden's, it just takes a few auto attacks extra. If you are feeling like the zed is bad, go for a lost chapter first, but if you think he can kill you go for a cloth armor, which is pretty effective against serrated dirk, since it gives 15 armor and dirk ignores 8 armor.You don't need to complete zhonya's unless their jungler is something like rengar , top like irelia and support like ali or rakan(heavy divers). You also need to see how he moves early. If he tends to take his shadow more often than not, it can be easy to predict where to bind him. If he does ult you, Bind behind you and shield yourself, and you are most likely going to live.Also, don't randomly use q if he has ult up and he is moving towards you, because if you miss it, you're getting the grey screen. I would suggest running barrier or teleport in that matchup. Edit: Also a real good solution for his WEQ combo is as soon as he throws out his W dont run in a straight line or dodge towards one direction, you need to be running back and forth so he can't predict your movement. I find myself missing the combo when they do that and also dodging it when I am against a zed most of the time

Edit2: See? That's what I was saying. I am giving in depth tips on how to beat zed on that match up and people just ignore it and downvote, that's why I'm never serious in those kind of posts

DW Diana11 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wswn4ezA,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T17:33:51.348+0000)

In that specific matchup you need to poke him in the first 3 levels, your goal is to get him out of lane there and you will be able to be ahead of him if you manage that. When he hits level 6 if you are 50% hp or less you can't stay in lane if he has summs and ult up unless your jungler or support is nearby. You can shove the waves without having to one shot backline with luden's, it just takes a few auto attacks extra. If you are feeling like the zed is bad, go for a lost chapter first, but if you think he can kill you go for a cloth armor, which is pretty effective against serrated dirk, since it gives 15 armor and dirk ignores 8 armor.You don't need to complete zhonya's unless their jungler is something like rengar , top like irelia and support like ali or rakan(heavy divers). You also need to see how he moves early. If he tends to take his shadow more often than not, it can be easy to predict where to bind him. If he does ult you, Bind behind you and shield yourself, and you are most likely going to live.Also, don't randomly use q if he has ult up and he is moving towards you, because if you miss it, you're getting the grey screen. I would suggest running barrier or teleport in that matchup. Edit: Also a real good solution for his WEQ combo is as soon as he throws out his W dont run in a straight line or dodge towards one direction, you need to be running back and forth so he can't predict your movement. I find myself missing the combo when they do that and also dodging it when I am against a zed most of the time

Edit2: See? That's what I was saying. I am giving in depth tips on how to beat zed on that match up and people just ignore it and downvote, that's why I'm never serious in those kind of posts

In response to edit 2: I saw this and laugh as well.

Regard the rest of the game plan you outlined, it's the fact that while you poke him, he can poke you. At level 6 you say hide under tower. He can 1 shot you and escape with only 1 tower shot. His problem is he has kill pressure at level 3. So he can't 100-0 you unless you position badly, but he can chunk you, wait 20 seconds and do it again. Or if hes already been poking you (as he should be) then he can finish you off at this point. There isn't really a counterplay to him unless he's bad.

Who Fed Ru1 votes

gonna save that

PopcornBunni15 votes

His biggest annoying feature you didn't even mention: Safest poke in the game, outranging basically every character in the game.

Zed genius2 votes

{quoted}

His biggest annoying feature you didn't even mention: Safest poke in the game, outranging basically every character in the game.

his w is 650 range btw

AMYS GRAVE7 votes

Zed q has 900 range btw, which can combo with his w for range (1550) exceeding artillery mages basic abilities like xerath (1400), lux (1350), or ziggs (1400).

Sassmast3r1 votes

You can't only look at range to see how effective an ability is; what about how fast it travels?

Karma's mantra'd Q has really high range and travels relatively fast, but perhaps not as high as Zed's range. Does that mean Karma's mantra'd Q is obsolete or not as good?

Which is easier to dodge? Remember, one goes through minions, one gets intercepted by them.

I'm not saying that you are wrong, the range might be really high, but the connection between high-range and being safe is falsely represented; there are numerous other factors to take into account.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

All that is true, my post was mostly a reaction to citing zed's w as 650 range which is nothing but misleading information about his real threat range.

Thilmer13 votes

The core of the problem is that Riot is convinced that this item 3191 is the AP equivalent of this item 3155 .

Yeah, they really think these two ítems are similar in terms of power. Sounds like a joke.

Laceration3 votes

seekers is actually more effective than hexdrinker once you stack it up. the item is extremely gold efficient. Seeker's Armguard is 94.09% gold efficient with no stacks. Its gold efficiency increases by 1.32% per stack, becoming gold efficient after 5 stacks and reaching 151.02% gold efficiency at 30 stacks. Hexdrinker base stats are 102.31% gold efficient. When taking magic damage below 30% Maximum Health Hexdrinker gold efficiency gets increased up to 159.74%. They're roughly the same but seekers is actually the better item for laning while hexdrinker is only 8% better during an all in. however the condition to get the shield means you have to fall dangerous low, this means if you are even or ahead as a mage its clearly favoured for you.

However, hexdrinker is a trap item. If you are behind you are delaying core and won't have any kill pressure, essentially wasting your gold. If you are ahead you have no reason to purchase and delay armor pen. This was actually the reason riot made maw give flat armor pen back in the day because of these exact problems. When they changed it to give cdr the item became training wheels for weak zed players.

Weiss Guertena8 votes

Being better during an all-in is where it matters the most early; if you jump on someone as Zed at level 6 you aren't looking to poke them but rather to kill them and snowball off them. And even then Hexdinker at its base is better than fully stacked Seeker's - something is definitely not right there.

And the "trap item" argument can easily be made for Seeker's too - and to a greater extent. You are delaying not only your damage and kill pressure, but also your resource generation and with it the ability to poke and waveclear.

MorganFreemanBot13 votes

There's a reason Zed is regarded as a troll pick in higher elo and hasn't been seen competitive for quite some time. Zed's "Lack of weaknesses" is entirely based on his opposition being retarded.

In the real world, Zed has several pronounced weaknesses.

1: His W has a fucking gigantic cooldown. This one's important, and ties into several things. 2: Using his W to effectively poke requires landing two skill shots from two angles, and the damage is heavily mitigated if either of them hit anything (like.. say.. a minion..) prior to making contact with a champion. If you're constantly eating double Q's without any intervening target, you're supposed to suffer heavily. 3: Zed's W is a one way ticket; if he uses it to go in there's no coming back out. If you all-in a mage too early, especially with creeps, they will kill you. 4: Zed's W removes his ability to escape. If Zed W's to poke, he has a 20 second window where he cannot escape ganks or engage (without ulti), leaving him open to being zoned, ganked, or poked. 5: Zed sacrifices his W (his primary escape and poke tool) in order to effectively clear waves.. Leaving him, you guessed it, vulnerable. 6: Zed's burst is delayed. Regardless of how you feel about Zed's R, the way it functions gives it more counter play than most damage sources in the game.

Zed is not without his strengths. His ulti lets him juke CC, he has an extraordinarily long threat range (though he becomes less threatening the more ground he has to cover) with his W and R, R re-activation gives him escape options, he's manaless, he has decent wave clear.

After the recent rebalancing even Phreak, a literal ADC main, was saying that Zed wasn't given the compensation he deserved... and he wasn't in a great place PRIOR to those changes! A slight buff later and Zed is in an acceptable, though not strong, spot.

Skeletons Grave3 votes

Dude i see scarra play zed every single day in masters+ and crush games and solo carry teams. He plays alot of champs but its very clear that its incredibly easy for him to win lane and game play zed over any other mid laner.

Never does anyone complain that he picks zed in his champ select. Plenty of people dodge or complain about his lee sin jungle, ap nunu, or other odd picks but never his zed ( that i have seen). So saying that he is a troll pick in higher elo is a flat out lie.

As for why he isnt played in LCS is obvious. LCS has the coordination and voice comms to counter zeds strengths and pick on his weaknesses. In the lcs, mid lane gets picked on alot. A zed will get warded out and ganked. The team comp will morph in champ select to make zed useless. Not to mention the top tier mages have ways of dealing with divers.

Now with the changes coming to mages, ad itemization, and solo kill gold, im pretty sure zed is only going to get stronger over the next month of patches.

BenTheDegenerate8 votes

{quoted}

I know there's always a ton of threads complaining about Zed but he has a lot of frustrating features in his kit, and could use some tuning so laning against him isn't as much of a chore as Yasuo.

He lacks much weaknesses early on and feels so irritating to go against.

  1. Not suffering mana issues
  2. Good waveclear (especially for an assassin)
  3. Can get hexdrinker into a rough matchup and be almost unkillable while mages can't do the same (suffer mana issues, seekers is useless)
  4. Post-lv 3 can all in any squishy from full health (electrocute + ignite, his passive damage etc). Maybe a problem with electrocute but one small combo and hell just kill them or send them back easily.
  5. To not die so easily to prior point, stand back and he hard zones any squishy.
  6. A great roamer, esp with youmuus and his mobility.
  7. People act like killing someone is high skill when its just button mashing with his ult, easier to hit than it's made out to be. Does a ton more of damage.

I don't know, I'm just another whiny person like everyone else on gameplay boards. He can snowball hard, and even though as soon as he gets to late game he struggles more, he is just so frustrating to deal with and go against. Maybe it's electrocute's damage pre-6 that makes it rougher, but even at 6 he can easily all in cuz his ult is on click and increases damage from all his abilities which are easily hit onto it, so dying to it feels unfair. It's an ult, it should do decent damage but either have more damage relying on his ult and decrease from his other abilities, or use the ult as more of a mobility and rely on damage from his q or something.

He needs some proper weaknesses, falling off late game isn't much of one. Even a decent weakness would just be buffing seeker's armguard. It needs its armor to stack through farming, and doesn't offer or block much damage either. It needs a better passive to protect mages against AD champs. If mages are going to suffer major mana issues from not going lost chapter, seekers needs worth the purchase.

"Then go stopwatch" is another point, but it's single use, and once you use it youll need to buy seekers straight after for some protection at least, until zhonyas. But that delays mana building so much, and means you've died, or been poked out, so much.

Just I hope these made sense. Zed has a major lack of weaknesses early, and is so infuriating to go against. Seekers, the anti-ad item for mages doesn't protect as much as it should, and either one should be looked at to increase counterplay. Magic resist is much stronger than armor, so it's easier to counter ap assassins by just a null cloak, but armor is both weaker than it, and lethality cancels it out. There's barely any protective options around for mages, and I'm honestly surprised it wasnt touched during mage rework.

Hi, I'm a Zed main. You want to know what infuriates me to fight against? Swain, Zilean, and Illaoi, Zilean messes up my ult with his stun, and can ult to survive Death mark and come back full if I do hit him, Swain and illaoi can hit me from a range and build tank, Zed can't do jack to tanks. If you badly want to counter Zed, use them and build a Frozen Mallet, I'll hate you later.

Reading what you said though, I don't think you understand Zed that much to be ranting lol.

Evil Bisex Plant11 votes

{quoted}

Gimp yourself for the whole game and potentially lose it to your team while I easily still can go after your AD carry.

Or should the ADC also pick Zilean, Swain or Illaoi and build tank...?

BenTheDegenerate2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Evil Bisex Plant,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wswn4ezA,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-05-01T17:22:50.304+0000)

Or should the ADC also pick Zilean, Swain or Illaoi and build tank...?

A tanky support like Alistar? You're asking to lose if you have a squishy ADC and support when an Enemy Zed is in play, unless they are super low my ult can't kill them alone, you have to use your abilities to deal considerable damage, then tap R again to disengage.

Alistars W and Q can literally stop this before it happens by knocking me back when I warp to the ADC, forcing me to disengage, meaning the ADC will take like 200 True damage or so from the ult, but unless they are literally out there with 200 hp I can't do anything fatal if the right champion is in play, my attacks are physical damage, (excluding the ults delay damage) I can't do a thing if a tank disables me when I try to use my skill combination.

BUT if you actually went into the game with two squishy bottom laners against a Zed, then you will feed a Zed, full stop.

This is literally like saying Jinx is broken because she can shred tanks even though Assassins can decimate her, you are refusing to believe he has weaknesses too and making this into a pointless circlejerk.

Evil Bisex Plant3 votes

[deleted]

BenTheDegenerate3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Evil Bisex Plant,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wswn4ezA,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-01T19:18:03.656+0000)

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Is it enough? No I don't think so

DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Nice spam, and taking my post out of context. Really no point in talking sensibly on circlejerk threads.

KoKoboto5 votes

Zed is a lane bully so play safe. It's like playing against a fighter top lane, playing against Lee Sin in the jungle, playing against Caitlyn bot lane, playing against a Thresh bot lane... etc

Why am I being downvoted...

Eleshakai8 votes

pfft I bully Caitlyn right back.

Weiss Guertena4 votes

Difference between Zed and Lee Sin is that Lee Sin falls off like a rock and turns into a CC combo bot as the game goes on while Zed still deletes people in a single combo come late game. "Lane bully" usually implies falling off, which Zed does anything but.

KoKoboto1 votes

Lee Sin falls off because when people group it's much more difficult for him to pull off his knock back combo. Zed falls off because when people group it is much more difficult for him to assassinate... If you're looking for a lane bully that is also strong late game that's Caitlyn tho she has a trough mid game.

Weiss Guertena1 votes

If by "assassinate" you mean "instantly 100-0 a target with good positioning, surrounded by their teammates" then yes, Zed falls of. Along with every other assassin. If you actually pick your moment - wait for enemy to mess up positioning, for your tank to engage or for them to eat some poke damage - then it's a whole different story. Lee falls off because it's not only harder for him to access priority targets due to the fact that you can body-block his gapcloser, but his scaling also leaves something to be desired and his offensive tools double as defensive ones - meaning he has to be more careful about when and where he uses them.

As for Caitlyn, it's certainly no secret that ADCs are busted and they have extensive changes coming up soon.

KoKoboto1 votes

If Lee Sin builds an assassination build he can 1 shot just like Zed. They both fall off because when people group it is harder for them to kill.

Weiss Guertena1 votes

Not really. Lee Sin has 1160+480% AD in his kit, and his 8% missing HP is attached to his gapcloser, meaning it will likely be used when he engages and not as effective. Zed (assuming double Shuriken hit and counting R amplification) has 945 + 503% AD and 15.5% missing HP which is guaranteed to go off when target is low, ensuring maximum effectiveness. Zed's missing HP damage is almost double of what Lee has and is always applied at low HP, and high scaling means that, Zed only needs around 40 AD more to break even with Lee Sin's flat damage - which he will always have by the virtue of his R passive.

Also worth mentioning is the ease of target access and escape. Lee Sin has to hit a bodyblockable skillshot on his main target where Zed doesn't have to worry about that. Zed also has a much easier time escaping after a succesful (or failed) assassination. Lee can 1-combo shot if he goes glass cannon (as can every other champion), but he sure as hell isn't as good as real assassins.

KoKoboto1 votes

Well if that's the case Zed also has to get within 625 range of his target if he doesn't want to use his W to gap close. Will have to ult to an easily predictable location and deal with all that. Lee Sin doesn't need to worry about losing damage because he can use his W as a point-click gap closer and can ult for the stun lock into an auto attack and a Q. If we're talking about effectively going to the target. Zed only gets the AD if he kills targets that have AD. Also, getting that much AD is actually rare. On average a Zed usually gets around 30 (they designed it to be similar to old W 25% AD increase) and this is only late game. Zed needs to get off an auto attack which isn't always possible because he has no crowd control, the only time he is really guaranteed the auto attack is if he uses it right after his ult or his W. If that is the case he is not getting the execute damage off and I've already said using W to gap close is much more likely than straight up using R unless the enemy doesn't respect you.

Lee Sin USES the target as an escape after kicking them. Lee Sin has a point-click dash that goes anywhere. Lee Sin does not need to use his Q to start his assault. Because Lee Sin's ult is a knock up it means you cannot zhonyas it. Lee Sin is classified as a Diver but can play the assassin role effectively. Just like WuKong, Master Yi, Rengar, Kayn, Diana, and Jarvan.

Trixsta5 votes
  1. Has energy issues unless u allow him to hit you with two qs.

2.his wave clear is bad.???!?

  1. Him buying hex drinker puts zed behind his power spikes. Delaying his snowball

  2. This is false.

  3. Only true when w is up. So dodge that 2nd q combo and u hard zone the zed for 20seconds..

  4. Zed can't effectively roam unless he has a lead. Due to poor wave clear. Also roams will make him lose exp and Cs so high risk high reward

  5. Please play zed vs a competent player.

Vekkna24 votes

1.Has energy issues unless u allow him to hit you with two qs.

Literally regens the cost of a Q in the cooldown of a Q.

2.his wave clear is bad.???!?

No, it's not. Thanks for asking.

1.Him buying hex drinker puts zed behind his power spikes. Delaying his snowball

Level 6 damage is free. Use it to get a free kill for more free damage. Begin snowball.

2.This is false.

Only technically because Vlad and Annie exist.

3.Only true when w is up. So dodge that 2nd q combo and u hard zone the zed for 20seconds..

See #1 (the first 1). Zone him with what? Your amazing mage autos? His EHP is 125% of the typical mage at level 1 and the gap only increases from there. Lux can literally spam E at rank 1 or 2 until she is at 0 mana, and it's not enough damage to kill Zed with level 1 base stats and a D Blade.

Fun fact: Lux can land QEaa (with 30 AP) and it deals 25% of Zed's EHP; he uses WQ during her autos and he deals 30% of Lux's EHP. If she's still in range of the shadow when her root breaks, Zed uses W recast Eaa, dealing a total of 59% of her EHP. He gets an Electrocute proc, putting him at 71% of her EHP. Ignite puts him at 86% of her EHP. If he gets one more auto on her, and she took at least 2 minion hits in the trade, Zed gets the kill at level 3. Even if he doesn't get the kill, he just won lane.

That's what OP means by Zed passively zoning. He can literally eat a Lux combo, and she's the one that could potentially die because she got in aa range of him. Meanwhile, she literally doesn't have enough mana to kill him if she spammed spells and hit 100% of them.

4.Zed can't effectively roam unless he has a lead.

Correct. And since he has a lead baked into his kit for free, effective roaming is his baseline.

Spicy Rice5 votes

Thing is, as a mage, you win lane, as long as you don't die against zed and just farm. Literally, all you need to do is sit back and relax. If he tries to poke you, he pushes in the wave, meaning you can sit under tower and ask for ganks. If he doesn't try to poke you, then you pretty much have a free lane.

If he ults you, throw your cc behind you, and then run away to the side. Assuming you don't hit your cc, you should have barrier or exhaust.

Honestly, the only reason you'd feel zed is op, is if you are constantly trying to fight him, instead of respecting his damage, and realizing that as a mage, you are much more valuable as a champion than zed is, assuming you are both even

Handy Sandy 3 votes
  1. Post-lv 3 can all in any squishy from full health (electrocute + ignite, his passive damage etc). Maybe a problem with electrocute but one small combo and hell just kill them or send them back easily.

well yea literally any champion can kill you at level 4+ if you sit there and take it

DuskDaUmbreon5 votes

If you don't move at all and take 20+ autos, sure, but that's not the same thing at all.

SB Arneeman3 votes

I agree that Zed is annoying to face, but he does have weaknesses. First off, his shadow cooldown is extremely long early and when it's down you can harass him all you want without any risk. Stopwatch/Zhonia removes his R damage completely. He also falls off later on, so you basically win lane by just surviving and farming up.

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