Why Are People Upset With RIOT?

JustaNewb·Apr 17, 2018·2 votes·709 views

I finally found it, I had a flicker of a memory of something, and so I set off and found it:

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=8298

The first time someone complained about the idea that one bad player will ruin a match, whereas 4 good players may not be able to win... in 2009. In Beta. That the game was -FAR TOO DEPENDANT- on the idea that one person should bring victory or defeat. Thought I had seen it somewhere before.

So, why are a lot of us so very upset?

They had basically fixed this problem for years.

It's back. We're upset. Discuss?

7 Comments

CynikulApr 17, 20183 votes

But... but this almost always has been a complaint. There's always someone who bitch about the current meta, or that so and so meta was better.

-Remember when top lane RULED the games? --> Tons of bitching -Remember when mid ALWAYS took TP too? --> Tons of bitching -Remember when jungle hit 6 before anyone else? --> Tons of bitching -Remember when assassins "truly" one shot everyone with 0 counter play? --> Tons of bitching -Remember tank meta (debatably still here) --> Tons of bitching --Remember when people could truly solo carry ---> tons of bitching that you could 4v1 and not win Remember when ADC's were weaker? ---> Tons of bitching Now ADC's are pretty impactful ---> Tons of bitching

There is absolutely no winning scenario for Riot. They can't do anything without people bitching.

JustaNewbApr 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But... but this almost always has been a complaint. There's always someone who bitch about the current meta, or that so and so meta was better.

-Remember when top lane RULED the games? --> Tons of bitching -Remember when mid ALWAYS took TP too? --> Tons of bitching -Remember when jungle hit 6 before anyone else? --> Tons of bitching -Remember when assassins "truly" one shot everyone with 0 counter play? --> Tons of bitching -Remember tank meta (debatably still here) --> Tons of bitching --Remember when people could truly solo carry ---> tons of bitching that you could 4v1 and not win Remember when ADC's were weaker? ---> Tons of bitching Now ADC's are pretty impactful ---> Tons of bitching

There is absolutely no winning scenario for Riot. They can't do anything without people bitching.

I actually specifically meant the aspect where there was no ability to carry a team with one bad apple. The rest of that stuff is just fluff to me. I am an advocate of the idea that uniform complaints are a sign of game health. (Endless one sided complaints about one issue, like ADCs at current, tend to just show what needs balancing next.)

JustaNewbApr 17, 20181 votes

Also, in retrospect, most everything you listed has been the past couple of seasons. The same couple of seasons that is generally agreed as the beginning of the current decline.

CynikulApr 17, 20182 votes

I've played the game since beta.

Top lane rules 2-3 seasons ago Mid always took top 1-2 seasons ago Jungler hitting 6 before anyone else- I honestly forget this one Assassins one shotting? Talon, Fizz, LB - these go WAY fucking back. 3-5 seasons ago, especially when were talking about when LB and Talon had silence, yikes Tank meta arguably still huge, so agreeable ADC's were weaker 2-3 seasons ago People could "truly" solo carry anywhere from 2 all the way back to 5 seasons ago

Here, since that clearly wasn't enough: -Remember when the champions started getting mobility --> Tons of bitching (Mobility creep dates back 2011 I believe) -Remember when Devourer was released? --> Tons of bitching (albeit rightfull so, 4 seasons ago) -Remember when people constantly bitched X Y Z mastery --> Tons of bitching (there were so many of these ,just look through archives)

Older stuff is harder to remember, but if you want me to point out "cancerous" things that weren't recent that people bitched about, I'm sure I can dig it up. My point here, which I think you entirely missed again, is that there will always be a minority, and sometimes majority- that aren't going to be pleased because it doesn't fit their agenda or what they want. Often times these people hold tons of bias for their own champion, items, or success.

And look, I'm not saying this game is fucking perfect, it's far from it. But I'll be damned- I've had more fun in the past 2-3 years playing LoL than I can remember having in the prior years. Sure part of the fun back then was there wasn't a meta. It made the game exciting, experimental, and innovative. But with any good game there begins to be meta, strategies, and tactics that evolve the game into a simpler form. I think that's OK too in its own right. You begin thinking what your current situation is and you have to devise a strategy based on that. In a lot of ways it strikes a lot of resemblance to chess or a RTS.

P.S. Generally agreed is such a fox argument, proof? I'm 99% sure I can find old quit threads dating years back that consist of people thinking the game was declining then too. My point here is you're just looking for some observation bias that fits.

JustaNewbApr 17, 20181 votes

I actually agree about the complaints, which is why I was honing in on the specific instance of being able to solo carry. It wasn't utterly healthy, mechanically, and it needed to be balanced... however, that said, MY problem at current is that instead of balancing it went to an extreme to get away with it.

I still love LoL, as evident by many comments and threads I actually make. On games I don't, I don't ever bother even logging back in, let alone post on their forums... BDO is a good example. Money spent, time wasted, oh well. Not worth the thought to provide opinion or insight on fixing it. I am also fully aware that many of my arguements come off as overly critical, or as attacks, and with Asperger's - it's something I am accustomed to dealing with the reactions to. Incidentally, it is also why I prefer articulated responses such as yours here.

CynikulApr 17, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I actually agree about the complaints, which is why I was honing in on the specific instance of being able to solo carry. It wasn't utterly healthy, mechanically, and it needed to be balanced... however, that said, MY problem at current is that instead of balancing it went to an extreme to get away with it.

I still love LoL, as evident by many comments and threads I actually make. On games I don't, I don't ever bother even logging back in, let alone post on their forums... BDO is a good example. Money spent, time wasted, oh well. Not worth the thought to provide opinion or insight on fixing it. I am also fully aware that many of my arguements come off as overly critical, or as attacks, and with Asperger's - it's something I am accustomed to dealing with the reactions to. Incidentally, it is also why I prefer articulated responses such as yours here.

So I guess this is what my point actually boils down to; lf we allow a single person to pull up their weakest link too much, if they were super far behind OR just carried the game, the whole enemy team views that as bullshit.

They put the caitlyn so far behind, there is absolutely no way they should have been able to win. But 2 ganks from the fed (or even relatively strong) Katarina turned the game around and now, not only is Kat more fed than before- but Caitlyn is prevalent again. In the enemies eyes, this is utter bullshit. Top lane get mad because they just 3-0'd the Fiora top, and was winning lane. Now not only did mid lose , but now bot as well. This upsets both the top and bottom after the game and they find it crap that the game was able to be decided by one person.

The question becomes how do you balance a game where someone doesn't become utterly useless after 2-3 deaths. Because someones going to be mad if those 2-3 deaths influenced that "entire match" because someone is fed now. Or the player thats died 2-3 times now, and actually- quite literally- can't do anything to get back into the game? I think you'll find quite a bit of people with issues of "feeling useless" after 2-3 deaths and not being able to come back. And like I said, 2 parties are going to be upset either way depending on how the games balanced.

If that Caitlyn on team red is able to come back after being so far behind-(based on current balance) the blue team finds that BS. If that caitlyn on team red isn't able to come back (based on the current balance)- the red team will be pissed that 1 person drug the game down. It's literally lose-lose. I see that you're trying to point out that maybe its at an extreme right now- sure, maybe it is. But I promise you for every 1 person thats upset about it the current way it is- there will be almost equally as many upset about it the opposite direction.

I hope that makes sense, this is a pretty hard point to get across and im super sleep deprived at the moment.

JustaNewbApr 17, 20181 votes

That rather does make sense. It is an incredibly difficult issue to deal with, and admittedly I have no perfect solutions lol.

Ranging ideas that, while they have merit, have their flaws:

Scaling PVE farm (gold from minions over time) can recoup the losses of early game failures, if the team can stave off defeat. It can also, unfortunately, boost a team that was already put ahead early game, without the 'behind' team keepibg continued pressure on their lanes while the behind player catches up. This would, slightly, lengthen games. If the player has gotten TOO far behind there is no helping it.
Scaling damage back, one of the board presented fixes, is one I actually agree with. The merits are that it will not so brutally penalize being put behind early, and it will return more skill and precision to team fighting (incidentally letting those big awesome plays back into streams and tournaments.) The downside is that games grow longer, tanks will need to be retroactively nerfed, and a myriad of itemization changes would have to be performed... it would be a slower process than many think.

Thus, I see no truly clear path for a fix... but then again I don't get paid to ultimately find one lol. Thus why I like discussions like ours in threads, as opposed to the inane 'elitist' replies. Sadly when I make thought out and lengthy posts, no one ever responds lol.