Atma's Impaler - The Case For Re-release

JustaNewb··28 votes·12,059 views

Atma's Impaler. Most of you have heard vague reference to this item, as it was the second item that caused a few problems insofar as the Meta went. Funnily enough, this item can fix three major problems that exist in the game today... odd how that works. The problems of:

  • Over Oppressive ADC Champions
  • Gutted and Crippled Juggernauts and Bruisers
  • Supports managing to keep the ADC inviolate.

How, you ask? Well, let's head down the rabbit hole.


What even IS Atma's Impaler? Well it was an item that became the base item for almost every AD champion for, say, a month. It gave survivability and some crit chance, so why not take it? Incidentally items of today have vastly surpassed it, and for it's price an ADC has vastly better options at their disposal to cover survivability and crit chance. Don't forget, Crit Chance used to be more rare, item wise, before Shiv and Firecannon.

So, what does it fundamentally do?

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Atma%27s_Impaler

Atma's Impaler +45 Armor +15% Critical Strike Unique: Gain AD equal to 1.5% of your maximum health. (Thats 30 AD per 2,000 hp) Cost: 2300gp

That is it. That is all that this terrifying item is. It had a singular purpose, to amplify the pumishment that heavy fighters (Juggarnauts and Bruisers) could dish out, while giving them enough toughness so that they could survive punching through the front lines and shift the carry's focus on them, lest they murder the carry or support... as they should. So many champions are deemed unviable because, at current, yes they can reach the back line if they build tanky... and then do not do enough to draw attention as they are basically ignored while the carry continues beating on your team.

Well. That is the what, let us move on to the WHY...


Many items are now absolute staples of various classes. While the Black Cleaver is seen as a staple for most Bruisers and Juggarnauts, all of their power is skill loaded - not attack loaded - so they do not really reap all of the benefits of the item. Atma's increases the actual functional viability of items such as Cleaver, Sterak's, and Frozen Mallet on these slow moving badasses.

A carry, or support, should NEVER lack instant fear of a Juggernaut that has plowed through their front line, and is making a path towards them. Nor should they manage to live if their team doesn't get the Juggarnaut off of them. If you get flanked by Garen, and he comes in from behind and grabs up your ADC... the ADC and their support should not be able to handle this on their own, unless they play extremely well. These champions were designed to be monsters.

The Atma's Impaler was designed specifically for this concept and role. It will add new life back to the following champions:

  • Garen. It amplifies everything he does, and shifts him back to being the ADCs nightmare. You could even ditch the failed Villain gimmick.
  • Jarvan would have a reason to ditch the lethality gimmick, as he can build for his role again.
  • Urgot is a jerk, but it would help him too.
  • Talon would gain lacking survivability, a bit more damage, and perhaps just enough extra toughness that he won't get twoshot as soon as he appears.
  • Nasus would make sense as an AD Champion again, being as no amount of tweaking gives his E a higher potential than his Q... and all but his E is designed as an in-excapable fighter.
  • I am certain you can flesh out the list for those you feel it would fit.

But, wait, what about Atmogs?!


Thanks to certain items, such as all of the new MS items, Dominick's, and so forth... neat? It's a 15% crit rate, and around 60-70 late game AD. The 45 armor is nice early on, but loses meaning late game.

Combined with items such as Sterak's, Frozen Mallet, Warmog's Armor, and Black Cleaver it does indeed have a beautiful synergy... if you can afford to build all of it. This is a rather expensive build, and then you have only gained your 15% crit, and did not purchase more to capitalize on it. Therefore it is simply a very useful item to have, and nothing more.

Insofar as it's potential abuses, one would need a truly long game, great farm, and at that point they have Torment and Dominick's... or should, and if they do not they should be punished for it. Also focusing a build entirely around Atma's lacks magical defenses, meaning you still have to deviate for such items as Spirit Visage.


All in all, it would now not be so much game breaking, as it would be a truly nice addition to the arsenal of champions who truly lack a dedicated arsenal.


Edit: The problem I have with the idea that item 3748 -replacing- Atma's is the fact that, while, yes Bruisers have a tendency towards auto-attacks.. Juggarnauts do not, meaning they get perhaps one splash from it, maybe two.

Edit 2: I win

79 Comments

GigglesO10 votes

{quoted}

Atma's Impaler. Most of you have heard vague reference to this item, as it was the second item that caused a few problems insofar as the Meta went. Funnily enough, this item can fix three major problems that exist in the game today... odd how that works. The problems of:

  • Over Oppressive ADC Champions
  • Gutted and Crippled Juggernauts and Bruisers
  • Supports managing to keep the ADC inviolate.

How, you ask? Well, let's head down the rabbit hole.


Heres the deal, I would much rather have 1500 hp warmogs back.

Old randuins omen, yes please.

Force of nature, also yes.

Old Tmail returning %damage (which would shut the adcs the fuck up), please please please.

But I don't see a reason to have atmas when it was already replaced with titanic hydra.

RainXBlade3 votes

I rarely see any bruiser run Titanic Hydra when Black Cleaver already provides that HP + AD niche that most bruisers want.

Also yes, I want Old Thornmail and FoN back in the game so that I can at least survive an ADC's right-clicking madness.

LordGeovanni3 votes

Titanic Hydra is stupid for a bruiser as a replacement for Atama's Ad that scales with your skills is much better than hp scaling on hit for most bruisers. Also Titanic hydra and Atama's dont use the same slot. Titanic uses the Raveneous hydra slot and locks you out of that sustain. While Atama's uses an armor item slot.

greekvandaL5 votes

Yasuo Can't sadly.

Nah i'm not hating n Yas just stating facts. Also i LOVED ATMAS and i bought it almost every game back in the day for most toplaners.

JustaNewb2 votes

Exactly! And yet everyone is afraid of an Atmogs 2.0 that literally can't happen due to many new items.

Also it really doesn't help Zed either.

Oleandervine1 votes

New items won't stop the combination from being busted as hell. If anything, the new items gives it new opportunities to be broken, especially since it will work MORE effectively with Black Cleaver and Frozen Mallet now that they both grant more HP than they did when Atma's was around.

Sulrana2 votes

So with Atma's and warmog..... You get 12 AD from 5150 gold and 2 item slots.... including base health that will still be less than 60 AD at level 18. The highest base HP at level 18 is Alistar at 2415 with warmog's thats 3215. That gives a total of 48 AD....

Bloodthirster costs 3700 gold and gives 80 AD

The only time that was busted was when warmog's stacked. Remember that was also before BotRK and Lord Dominik's Regards

Just remove the crit chance and yasuo would never buy it.

LordGeovanni1 votes

It wont stop it from happening its just that those items will make it super bad. Atmogs wasnt busted in the first place in my opinion It was just Safe ranged carries who built no defenses crying that they got jumped on when they should die if they ever get jumped on

iPooUnicorns7 votes

There would definitely be a trade off for Yas building atmas. He would either have to sacrifice a Zeal item and have less Q uptime, sacrifice IE and do a lot less damage, or build all 3 but have wasted stats.

JustaNewb3 votes

That is what some are not seeing at the moment. With the widely expanded item base, to focus on Atma's means losing out somewhere else. Previously, it didn't, as functionally core items for anything but mages was 1-2 items.

Oleandervine4 votes

It's not a matter of losing items out somewhere. Atma by default gives Yasuo 30% Crit. With Phantom Dancer, that goes up to 90%. Add in Infinity Edge, and he's now at 100% crit, 45 armor, and whatever AD he gets from his base HP, plus he's got his shield and the damage mitigation from PD. Then he's free to build Frozen Mallet and/or Warmog's, his boots, and his 6th item.

item 3031 item 3046 item 3022 item 3047 item 3053 and Atma's would be the new Tank Yasuo meta. It doesn't matter if he's not going to 1 shot you like a full AD/Crit Yasuo can. He WILL kill you because you can't kill him fast enough, you can't escape because of Mallet, and he'll probably take out at least 1 or two other non-tanks on your team. I played during a Tankuo meta, and it was disgusting. This doesn't need to be rearing back up again.

iPooUnicorns4 votes

Atmas would be a item on him until at least his 4th item. If he builds it before he has item 3031 item 3046 his damage would be laughable. Additionally Atmas doesn't really shine until you have a fair amount of HP, which puts it at a 4th-5th item, and if Yasuo has 4-5 items finished, he's going to be very strong regardless of whether or not Atmas exists.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Or he could not sacrifice anything still build atama's and only lose out of 15% crit like people will when they use their brain. I still want atama's but no doubt its gonna be stupid on yas.

Bazooka Blade4 votes

honestly i hate it when riot takes away items they should be adding more options giving us a more in depth game. it will also increase the replay value and thats smart [galio-happy]

Lucky Moniker4 votes

Titanic hydra is hitting that same niche in a more manageable way and these two items together would be dangerous. It would be difficult to balance

JustaNewb1 votes

I have used Titanic Hydra on Vi to splash over 1500 damage per E. Not sure how that is more manageable...

Yaśuo Main1 votes

If a lie wasn't any more obvious

Death by Glamour3 votes

The memories of old AD sion

[sg-jinx]

Jbels2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0i9AyEyz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-13T17:11:45.796+0000)

The memories of old AD sion

[sg-jinx]

The prospect of new AD Sion [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

GigglesO4 votes

Not as good without that lifesteal ulti.

LordGeovanni1 votes

While true getting hit by that Q ever would be easy chunks of hp and this would make it bad for adcs or mages to ever farm when grouped which im all for because they have had that spot light for so long that could be his neche in that he only has one scaling skill to fight with his w doesnt scale neither does his e and his ult is a one off spell you cant exactly fight with its just initiation.

ModWulf Helhammer3 votes

People seriously have the rose tint turned up to the extreme if they believe bringing back Atma’s is a good idea. Or should even be considered.

JustaNewb3 votes

It isn't so much that, as it is that - comparing it to other items, in the current core sets for various classes - it really is not nearly as bad as it once was. It is very inferior to other items that other classes can take and build around, meaning the wide spread concept of Atmogs or Fromogs doesn't really exist except as trollish builds.

It would, like Sterak's, be a good booster item for a currently floundering class as a whole.

Oleandervine4 votes

Yasuo with Atma's Impaler and Frozen Mallet wasn't a troll build. It was an entire meta until they removed Atma's. No one wants a perma-slowing Yasuo (or ANY AD carry like Irelia, Kayn, or Kled) who can also have insanely high AD for building tanky and can't be easily killed. Those metas were horrible, and need to remain in the past.

JustaNewb2 votes

These are actually good points, and I will try to think up a rebuttal. Until then, point to you.... however I stand by the fact that they currently gain MORE AD from Sterak's.

Oleandervine2 votes

The Yasuo would build this: item 3031 item 3046 item 3053 item 3022 item 3047 (ATMA'S IMPALER) That way, he gets not only the 100% crit, but also the AD, HP and the bonus AD from his HP from Atma's AND Sterak's.

The other divers would build variations: item 3022 item 3071 item 3078 item 3053 item 3047 (ATMA'S IMPALER) Since Atma's removal, BOTH Frozen Mallet and Black Cleaver shifted from being predominantly AD items to having a heap more HP. This would combo extremely well with Atma's, in both making them tankier and still not letting them fall off as hard for building more on the HP side.

Mimr2 votes

{quoted}

The Yasuo would build this: item 3031 item 3046 item 3053 item 3022 item 3047 (ATMA'S IMPALER) That way, he gets not only the 100% crit, but also the AD, HP and the bonus AD from his HP from Atma's AND Sterak's.

The other divers would build variations: item 3022 item 3071 item 3078 item 3053 item 3047 (ATMA'S IMPALER) Since Atma's removal, BOTH Frozen Mallet and Black Cleaver shifted from being predominantly AD items to having a heap more HP. This would combo extremely well with Atma's, in both making them tankier and still not letting them fall off as hard for building more on the HP side.

Mallet used to be +20 AD and 700 HP back in the day. Then it became 30 AD, then 40 for a short while, and now it's 30 again. HP has always hovered between 600 and 700.

Big Lincoln2 votes

no it wasn't.

Oleandervine2 votes

I recall a Tank Yasuo build that erupted many years ago, and persisted until Atma's removal, the nerfing of Frozen Mallet, and the nerfing of Yasuo himself.

Big Lincoln2 votes

never happened. tank yasuo built trinity force->mallet and beat you with his sheen spam base damage

Yaśuo Main1 votes

wrong tank yasuo

ViciousSummoner2 votes

Made bruisers too stronk.

JustaNewb2 votes

Compared to the items for ADC, Mages, and Tanks right now... too strong compared to WHAT?

ViciousSummoner3 votes

Let's use Darius as our example because I like him. He's fun to play and commonly used.

Let's say our runes are: Phase Rush Ultimate Hat Transcendence Gathering Storm Future's Market + Cosmic Insight

item 3071 item 3065 item 3812 item 3083 (Atma's) item 3158

2282 HP at Lv 18

450 + 400 + 800 = 1650 BHP

2282 + 1650 = 3932 HP x 1.5% = 58.98 or 59

149 AD at Lv 18

Noxian Might +230 Bonus AD at Lv 18 w/5 stacks

CDR = 10 + 5 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 20 + 10 = 75 - 40 = 35 bonus AD from Transcendence

40 + 80 + 12 = 132 + 149 = 281 AD + 35 = 316 AD + 59 = 375 AD + 230 = 605 AD

We can add in the 4.8 AD per 10 minutes, but that would only further my point so we won't.

107 Armor + 45 = 152

54 MR + 55 = 109

While you're not superbly tanky you also have to factor in that you're taking 30% reduced damage because of DD, so there's that.

You're trying to tell me that this 605 AD monstrosity that takes 30% reduced damage, heals when he touches you, and has 75% slow resist with 40% increased movement speed is somehow super balanced?

Alright sounds good to me! Let's green light this idea immediately!

JustaNewb6 votes

He gains more AD from Sterak's, so are we concerned about the 15% crit, or the armor?

ViciousSummoner2 votes

Oh wait, I forgot about crit. Your AA's are now 1210 DMG without applying stuff such as armor. So yeah that's totally fun right? Even if your crit chance is only 15% that's still basically a 1 in 5 chance.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

Oh wait, I forgot about crit. Your AA's are now 1210 DMG without applying stuff such as armor. So yeah that's totally fun right? Even if your crit chance is only 15% that's still basically a 1 in 5 chance.

5 x 15 is 75%. I believe the right number is somewhere in the ballpark of 6.something. Either way, crit wouldn't be the reason it was built, and the amount of times champions who actually build this item would care about the crit would be minimal. If it happens, fine. but there's no way in hell a champion buying this item would be weighting their options based on whether or not they will crit

Painted Celt2 votes

1 in 6.66_ (I can't add an overline on the boards so imagine the underscore is a viniculum)

By the way, I think juggernauts and fighters should scale as well as marksmen lategame when it comes to damage output. Also crit is actually total AD scaling, and base/total AD scaling is supposed to be the balance lever for Juggernauts, so I support crit item options for juggernauts.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Not tanks please. Everyone on tanks like they do anything with their items when Stacking defenses has diminishing returns and everyone's even the most squishy champions's base stats cover the most effective points of armor and magic resist While their items are the least slot efficient items in the game besides support items (which are all tank items too) . the only time tank items are better than anyone else's items are in the first 7 mins of the game when item 1029 has 15 armor and item 1036 only has 10 ad and is more expensive and item 1033 has 25 magic resist while item 1052 only has 20 ap for similar gold cost. Bruisers are in the state they are in now because of tank item nerfs. Nerfs to have tanks survive all of 5 seconds in a team fight that hit bruisers that shared tank items so they survive a fraction of the time. item 3102 has 60 magic resist and good amount of ap while building out of item 1033 while item 3001 builds out of item 1057 for the same 60 magic resist. Health is supposed to be complimentary to defenses but you get item 3211 with item 3065 has less magic resist than item 3102 and less hp than item 3027. You build out of item 3211 and item 1033 to get item 3194 less magic resist than item 3102 that just builds out of item 1033 . tanks are not strong they compliment ranged carries while bruisers are supposed to directly combat ranged carries and ranged carries are broken and poorly balanced.

DOUBLE TAPPED E2 votes

I agree with bringing it back but perhaps, to better fit this idea of giving juggernauts a way to punish the backline for positional errors and their team for failing to peel, replace the 15% crit with 10% CDR. Very few juggernauts and bruisers even use crit chance, with Tryndamere and sometimes Udyr being the only notable exceptions.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir Beefcake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0i9AyEyz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-13T18:05:39.293+0000)

I agree with bringing it back but perhaps, to better fit this idea of giving juggernauts a way to punish the backline for positional errors and their team for failing to peel, replace the 15% crit with 10% CDR. Very few juggernauts and bruisers even use crit chance, with Tryndamere and sometimes Udyr being the only notable exceptions.

Garen please give me my bruiser crit items back.

Painted Celt2 votes

Pre-rework Sion with item 3153 (or item 3078) item 3022 Aatma's item 3075 item 3065... I miss you, babe.

I'd test out any Juggernaut/fighter with item 1401 item 3748 item 3071 (or item 3078) Aatma's item 3031 if Aatma's were brought back. It might finally let melees feel like they scale lategame. One problem is that I'd also want to build similarly on AD assassins (probably minus cinderhulk), thereby creating mobile bruisers like happened back with the "tank assassin" meta about a year ago. The solution might be to make Aatma's grant % base AD instead of flat bonus AD this time around. As long as Riot makes sure that assassins and marksmen are tuned around low base AD, low/no total/base AD scalings, and high bonus AD scaling then it could work out. Having Aatma's grant base AD might make item 3078 item 3053 + Aatma's too synergistic though, so then they'd need to be balanced a trio of items, which could mean they would be nerfed until no longer strong without each-other.

PB4UAME2 votes

Also, I think its worth mentioning its original state, which was 2600g for 50 armor, 18% crit chance and AD equal to 2% of your HP iirc.

JustaNewb1 votes

Nobody remembers that, shhhhh lol

PB4UAME1 votes

I actually double checked it, and the best case was 2200g, 2% hp -> AD, 70 Armor and 22% crit chance, with a non-unique passive, so you could stack them.

It then got changed to 60 armor and 25% crit, then to 50 armor and 18% crit chance before they realized it was the stacking passive thing that was the problem, so the passive was made into a unique passive and they raised the cost (all these changes taking place on the same patch, ending FrAtMog's META.) but still at 2% HP -> AD for another year before it dropped to 1.5%.

It spent roughly half its existence, or a little over 2 years as a 2% HP -> AD ratio.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Isn't Atma's kinda just replaced with item 3748 and item 3053 ? They basically serve the same purpose.

JustaNewb1 votes

Edited to explain my issue with the arguement that Titanic is a good replacement for Atma's.

ZerglingOne1 votes

{quoted}

Edited to explain my issue with the arguement that Titanic is a good replacement for Atma's.

I think you'd have to do something like what was done with item 3083 with a health threshold. Or make it melee only. Although I'd also like Urgot to be able to buy it.

Otherwise what happened before would happen again where ADCs could abuse it.

JustaNewb1 votes

Agreed. That functionality did not exist when Atma's was out... though I did see a thread where Maple said they are looking at Urgot counting as Melee for items.

ZerglingOne1 votes

{quoted}

Agreed. That functionality did not exist when Atma's was out... though I did see a thread where Maple said they are looking at Urgot counting as Melee for items.

Well...ranged/melee rules have been around since season 1. Tiamat was originally a standalone dead-end build path item that worked on both melee and ranged, but it was 35% splash on ranged 50% on melee. So it's not entirely true that melee only didn't exist, but they didn't implement it as a hard item restriction until quite recently actually. I wanna say Season 6 was when they finally made Tiamat/Hydra fully melee only and Hurricane ranged only.

Oh and one final thing I'd like to add about Titanic Hydra being a better overall replacement in the vein of the OP.

There is practically no situation where Titanic isn't better in literally every way with one minor exception in Garen because his E can crit.

Let's look at the math shall we? Titanic Hydra gives 40 AD. Atma's HP requirement for that is 2666. We definitely know that's an easily achievable amount of HP. Let's go with an absolutely ridiculous example here. Even if we take Talon, with his ridiculous 665% bonus AD ratio kit (I think it's the highest?) and match up the 2 items.

At 2666 HP, Titanic's active (which let's just assume you can't always chain the autos exactly perfectly to get the extra 100% AD out of it) deals 267 extra damage. Titanic wins by 267 damage.

At 4500 HP, Atma's would add around 28 more AD than Titanic, yielding an extra 186 damage due to AD on a 665% AD ratio kit, but titanic active has added another 134 damage as well, so Atma's AD in arguably the most powerful burst combo in the game vs Titanic's additional burst from its active has only diverged by 52 damage.

But that's not even the end of it! As a general auto attack enhancer, Atma's loses out an even more gigantic amount! Not even accounting for the fact that Titanic does AoE damage, just strictly as a single target effect, it gets that 40 AD up front, which means that Atma's comes in with the expectation that 40 + 1% of your max HP is equal to the amount of damage that it provides on-hit.

Ignoring the crit for the sake of ease right now. 40 + 1% HP = 1.5% HP We can subtract out 1% HP from both sides to get 40 = 0.5% HP...and this is where Atma's gets sad, because math is awesome and we get to keep our variable named HP...we can divide both sides by 0.5% to get 40/0.005 HP = 8000 That's a pretty far on the edge case for Atma's being better/even.

But even with the crit chance it's still not great. damage on average on-hit becomes (with just Atma's) 1.5% HP x 1.15 = 1.725% HP

40/0.00725 = 5517 HP...still an edge case. Especially when the item itself doesn't give HP, and it means really only 4 of your items even CAN give HP...And if you go for more crit, you're SOL because no crit item gives HP either. I'm sure there's a Goldilocks zone with an IE, where it's around the break-even point of the 2 items, but I'll still take the extra 100% AD ratio Titanic's active gives to any combo if you have any mechanical skill whatsoever.

That isn't exactly convincing me as an item...

The only benefit it has over Hydra in my eyes is the fact that it would be over 1000 gold cheaper. It's outclassed in every other way.

Again, that isn't to say they can't exist together in the same space...it's just hard (and frankly, wrong) to argue that Atma's is in any way better than Titanic.

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