What if Zed's ult had an energy cost?

Aheadatime··3 votes·613 views

I don't play Zed, nor do I struggle with him. He's either banned in my elo (g1), or I counter pick him with Malz. Either way, I realize he's an issue. Wouldn't this help balance him? I don't know what the energy cost should be, but perhaps it should limit the amount of abilities he could spam before ulting, as such a change might create counterplay via observational reactionary positioning.

Ie, if the Zed has been systematically clearing waves using a combo/single ability, one would be able to take note that he hasn't done so this wave, indicative that he may be consciously conserving his energy for an all-in. Thus, one may consider checking map for jungler positioning, popping potions, conserving mana/cooldowns, and/or backing as a pre-emptive reaction to the aforementioned scenario.

Or perhaps it could be made expensive enough to allow the use of two of his other three abilities within a 2 second window of opportunity immediately after ulting, with the third ability being available shortly thereafter (would require concise calculations regarding his energy pool/costs/regen and the scaling per level therein). This may (excluding reactionary energy-based rune pages[lolthat'scute]) encourage or even coerce Zed to do battle over a longer period of time.

6 Comments

Sightless663 votes

Having energy costs on ultimates has generally not proven to be a great idea. Kennen used to have an energy cost on his ultimate, and Akali went through testing to see if having an energy cost on her ult would be a good idea. It was a huge limitation on what Kennen could do, and was extremely frustrating to play around. Energy costs work best when they are balanced to make sustained fighting difficult, not when they are balanced to prevent a champion from initially using their abilities.

It would be a pretty big problem for Zed too. Giving him an energy cost would severely limit the usefulness of his ult in a ton of situations, particularly early in the game when his energy costs are quite high. Dodging one skill could completely shut his ultimate down. That's probably way too easy. And that's just for the situations where Zed engages a fight with his ultimate. If he ever wants to use it reactively after using another ability, he'd be unable to fight with it at all because of the lack of energy. I don't see a good way for this to work.

Aheadatime1 votes

But isn't this the same general issue that mana champs have to deal with? Whenever I malz, I can't just use my ult whenever I want in reaction to suddenly wanting to capitalize on an enemy mistake. I need to sure that I have at least 200-300 mana (since you don't just use the ult by itself), which means it needs to be at least somewhat pre-meditated.

Sightless661 votes

No, it's not the same issue mana champions have. Mana champions have issues worrying about their mana usage over the course of minutes, not seconds. I can throw out my ult on Malzahar and know for a fact that I will have enough mana to cast everything else. I can throw out an entire combo, and still have enough mana for another entire combo. Your proposal would have Zed throwing out one ability and then having to worry about if he would have enough energy to use an ult-combo, with no way to ensure he would other than "never cast an ability if there is even the smallest chance of having to ult". Not to mention that it completely breaks combos like using the shadow to gapclose in range for an ultimate and then following up with two spells. God forbid that happens.

On mana champions, I have to worry about doing it too often, but I absolutely can ensure that I'll have enough mana to use spells at-will for a certain period of time. That's a very different situation than the limit you are proposing for Zed's energy. To even make this proposal feasible, you'd have to majorly increase his early-game energy restoration, and even then I'm not certain it's a workable idea.

MrPerson102 votes

It would destroy zed as an initiate and escape assassin unless it had a very low cost. The entire point of his ult is to get in and provide a way back out after melting an adc or apc. I like the idea in theory, but the cost would have to be low enough that he could get in, pop W/Q/Bork active to slow but then your opponent may be out of range of your double E which could make the difference between the kill or having to use ignite before getting out with R again.

Aheadatime1 votes

I'm not suggesting that we add two energy costs for his ult. I'm suggesting a single up-front energy cost. Thus, using R a second time to escape is still free. How much energy he has left after using ult is what I'm concerned with. Should it be enough to rotate all spells without paying attention to his energy management at all? Should it be low enough that he needs to land a mimic in order to refund enough for a second mimic, which requires more skill?

I personally believe he should only have enough energy after an ult cast to cast shadow + mimic an ability, and if he is successful and lands a refund, he can cast his other ability. Regardless, I want to emphasize that the energy cost would be up-front in my proposal, which would guarantee his free escape.

MrPerson101 votes

{quoted}

I'm not suggesting that we add two energy costs for his ult. I'm suggesting a single up-front energy cost. Thus, using R a second time to escape is still free. How much energy he has left after using ult is what I'm concerned with. Should it be enough to rotate all spells without paying attention to his energy management at all? Should it be low enough that he needs to land a mimic in order to refund enough for a second mimic, which requires more skill?

I personally believe he should only have enough energy after an ult cast to cast shadow + mimic an ability, and if he is successful and lands a refund, he can cast his other ability. Regardless, I want to emphasize that the energy cost would be up-front in my proposal, which would guarantee his free escape.

I understand that but look at the early game where energy costs are insanely high, just for a W/Q combo at lvl 2 you've used over half your energy. If you were to add in a cost to the energy pool for his ult, where zed really is able to secure lane and start roaming, you sacrifice his ability to do so by having such high energy costs along with high cooldowns that you're essentially just going to ult, W, auto attack, Q and hope both hit and you still won't have killed them. If you can dodge even one part of zeds combo as it is now and CC lock him it can leave him totally useless and potentially stuck behind enemy lines without CDs and he's dead. Adding in an energy cost would mean more time that zed has to spend vulnerable to the enemy while he's stuck with AAs, leaving him less mobile, vulnerable to CC and potentially leaving him unable to escape without doing much damage at all either. If he's locked down.

The basis of zed is the definition of an assassin - in and out before you even noticed he was there. Adding an energy cost makes that impossible to do until the early stages of late game team fights when most games already have their fate decided, rendering him a useless pick. Also I believe they tried adding a cost into kennens ult and it failed miserably.

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