How about getting rid of the "Support" role?

dakota saturn··5 votes·702 views

If anyone played back before season 1, there was no established meta. Junglers were optional, and 2 person top lanes were actually optimal - you had to pick only certain characters if your team had a jungler on it, because it was likely you would be stuck 1v2.

AD carries could go to any lane and didn't have to be babysat by a dedicated role. Ashe and Sivir mid were common - Ashe especially because of her global ult. Twitch was also a common mid because of his roam potential with stealth and was very scary once he hit six.

Bot lane was a wildcard because people would tend to go for things like Taric/Sion to chain stun, or Blitz/Ali for pinballing champs. But any two champs could go together as long as they complemented each other.

The whole 'sit in bush for 10 minutes, don't take any farm, don't take any kills, and don't earn any gold' came about from Dreamhack in season 1, and is probably the one established thing that's remained constant since, and it's consistently been a problem to get people to actually want to play this role ever since.

For example, I love playing Janna and have since this game was in beta. I hate being passive and feeling like I have zero impact on the game as a whole until teamfights break out, so I've been taking her Mid and Top lane since season 1, so I can build her with AP and actually do things on my own as a 'support-only' champion.

With things like morde/ziggs bot, it does change things a bit, but a lot more can be done to change it from specifically a 'support' role, into just a dual bot lane role. Old Karma, for example, was a great duo with Melee bot laners, and in Lux's original champ spotlight, she was meant to go together with melee bot laners as well.

I normally do like the support role in other games because clutch saves are fun - but you become 100% reliant on your ally to be competent. If you're Janna and you're laning with a first time Draven who can't CS, you might as well go AFK since you literally won't be able to do a thing to save your lane and stop the enemy team from snowballing.

After the Support Singed w/ Smite fiasco, it became clear that deviating from this hard set meta not only gets your team pissed at you, but can even get you banned from the game completely.

If one thing could be done to really make this season stand out, it would be to change the role from Support and not force ADCs to only go bot lane, and allow so-called support champions to go to other lanes to potentially solo and earn money to charge their abilities. After the support rework in season 4, AP is actually very impactful on champs like Sona/Janna/Soraka and playing Janna with 500 AP is extremely fun and satisfying.

Being able to do this without automatically being deemed a troll would be nice, and we would likely have a lot more players who would play these characters if they weren't 100% reliant on someone else doing well.

20 Comments

Çhåryzård3 votes

I don't really think you can get rid of a role that many people now main and have mained for years

dakota saturn1 votes

{quoted}

I don't really think you can get rid of a role that many people now main and have mained for years

Why not? nothing stops people from still playing those champions. But, people would have the option to go Top Lane Leona with Triforce, or AP Braum mid, or split push Janna top lane with Nashor's tooth/Guinsoo's.

They'll still do the same thing in teamfights, but they won't be 100% dependant on someone else's performance for their own gold income.

Or they can lane with a Darius to increase his movespeed/shield him/increase his damage to counter typical bot laners.

the Anarchit3cht2 votes

ADCs went mid lane because minions get their quicker and they could snag jungle farm and get more gold faster thus snowballing their builds.

Limmie1 votes

I'd love for the meta to be more flexible, but I'm not so sure there's anything Riot can do to actively break the pattern even if they wanted to.

That said, I'd really dislike a meta in which income flows aren't fixed. And since there's only 4 income flows each lane and the jungle one of them must be shared if you're not gonna have a support (ie somebody that is assigned no flow). And competing for income is definitely no fun at all.

dakota saturn1 votes

{quoted}

I'd love for the meta to be more flexible, but I'm not so sure there's anything Riot can do to actively break the pattern even if they wanted to.

That said, I'd really dislike a meta in which income flows aren't fixed. And since there's only 4 income flows each lane and the jungle one of them must be shared if you're not gonna have a support (ie somebody that is assigned no flow). And competing for income is definitely no fun at all.

How about a summoner spell/item that shares income, like Relic shield, but full time?

Or a champion that forms a link with another champion so any CS one gets, both get some gold from it?

But either way - this wasn't a problem before the established meta - if you look at the Lux spotlight the enemy bot lane was Kog'Maw/Akali and they shared gold income, as did the Lux/Garen in bot lane.

It's very different from how things are now, but that doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

SeaGodUrronuos1 votes

Well since they ban someone like idk singed sup for no reason whatsoever

Sarutobi1 votes

{quoted}

Well since they ban someone like idk singed sup for no reason whatsoever

You should really do your research if you honestly think that Singed was ban for "no reason"

SeaGodUrronuos1 votes

Actually I did do all my research and the reasons that riot gave were false all of them give me one thin that riot said to him that was not false.

Irelia Bot1 votes

There are many things they could do but they would get major backlash from some players for it especially marksmen who would have their divine place in bot lane every game challenged.

But in turn it would make the game more open to different things.

I actually tend to play support the most in dota 2 and even without a ton of gold I still feel highly impactful. Give me a force staff and I can make huge plays (or blunders).

It use to be that champs like Janna could work exceptionally well mid but then her Q damage was nerfed and she could no longer clear waves with it and some AP.

Crystal maiden on the other hand can win a 1v5 with her ult sometimes if the enemy team plays it really poorly and she is by all means a support.

Riot has been pushing a meta on the players even when they have said they were not. They could make marksmen more dependent on levels but they have not. They could provide different means for supports to get EXP and act more as a roaming class but they have not.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

I'd love for the meta to be more flexible, but I'm not so sure there's anything Riot can do to actively break the pattern even if they wanted to.

That said, I'd really dislike a meta in which income flows aren't fixed. And since there's only 4 income flows each lane and the jungle one of them must be shared if you're not gonna have a support (ie somebody that is assigned no flow). And competing for income is definitely no fun at all.

Breaking the pattern would be trivial.

Remove the bonus XP the duo lane gets and drastically increase the respawn rate of Jungle monsters so running a Jungler in each quadrant is viable. BOOM. There are now five income sources on the map and a 1v2 lane is actually something you can survive. Riot would probably have to go back to balancing Enchanters around being able to solo lane again.

MrSuperCat1 votes

You'd DUMPSTER braum

dakota saturn1 votes

{quoted}

You'd DUMPSTER braum

Not really - Braum could be (and is!) a very competent solo laner with his passive, ability to cancel projectiles, and his leap to assist in ganks or avoid them. I've seen nearly every support champion lane solo with success - the biggest obstacle is flaming allies who immediately give up and assume the person is trolling.

Support champs have crazy amounts of utility and people seem to forget that this makes them very good vs a lot of typical damage-only champions like Yasuo/Camille/Darius.

rtbf2216514121 votes

Get item 3070 and harass the enemy adc and support. There. No more bush. I don't know why you think some supports can't peel, harass, and zone. That is what I see when you said some of the things in absolute.

The entire (don't take kills) can be ignored if the adc is bad. Also taking a kill means more support items. Oh no. Whatever should the adc do? Needs another support! Oh wait, but now their support came back even better... But the adc wants another support!....

Those adc people are bad. People who takes minion kills are tank supports only when the relic shield is active. However, there have been multiple games where a lane has been undefended and my team forces the support into defending lane (and getting cs).

However, you are right that they are very reliant and that is very dumb if you need to climb. Some people would say they climbed being only support but there is an issue if you think everyone will only play only support. The time is divided if you play multiple champions. I've seen diamonds dodge. I never dodge intentionally. Ever. Only did it once when finding the same high individual in my last game who built AD and Tank Malzahar AFTER his rework.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

Get item 3070 and harass the enemy adc and support. There. No more bush. I don't know why you think some supports can't peel, harass, and zone. That is what I see when you said some of the things in absolute.

Legitimately stupid to do.

The entire (don't take kills) can be ignored if the adc is bad. Also taking a kill means more support items. Oh no. Whatever should the adc do? Needs another support! Oh wait, but now their support came back even better... But the adc wants another support!....

Uh...adcs getting carry items is way more valuable than a support getting support items until like...way late game assuming you're missing Locket or Redemption.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Legitimately stupid to do.

Uh...adcs getting carry items is way more valuable than a support getting support items until like...way late game assuming you're missing Locket or Redemption.

  1. item 3003 helps with mana and skill spam. Mad? Is it my first pick? Meh. I rather other things. However, it still counters his point which you clearly missed his and my point.
  2. If you don't think Soraka doesn't spike in healing with some expensive items then I think we have other issues.
chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

  1. item 3003 helps with mana and skill spam. Mad? Is it my first pick? Meh. I rather other things. However, it still counters his point which you clearly missed his and my point.

Supports have been steadily geared away from making big investments, and tear is one of the biggest investments in the game.

  1. If you don't think Soraka doesn't spike in healing with some expensive items then I think we have other issues.

Better for your adc to hit major spikes in consistent damage output than for a Soraka to hit a spike in a two minute aoe heal, even if Redemption is a stupid item.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

Supports have been steadily geared away from making big investments, and tear is one of the biggest investments in the game.

Better for your adc to hit major spikes in consistent damage output than for a Soraka to hit a spike in a two minute aoe heal, even if Redemption is a stupid item.

Uh who said anything about AoE heal? Do you realize how much item 3083 costs and does for Soraka?

chipndip11 votes

It's better for your adc to hit major spikes in consistent damage output than for a Soraka to hit a major spike in HP regen.

rtbf2216514121 votes

{quoted}

It's better for your adc to hit major spikes in consistent damage output than for a Soraka to hit a major spike in HP regen.

It's about healing 45k or more in a game rather than the HP regen itself.

I mean I see the point but the ADC isn't going to be as grouped up as a Soraka.

Ralanr1 votes

To be honest, I would like to see supports in top with fighters and tanks.

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