Moderation of "Golden Rule", specifically regarding Rioters

ModWuks··96 votes·4,884 views

Effective immediately, we will be moderating the Boards to more closely reflect our original intentions of the "Golden Rule". As per the Boards Universal Rules:

Always be respectful to players, community members, moderators, and Rioters. Harassment and insults will not be tolerated (“just playing” is NOT a catch-all excuse).

We understand that there are certain topics you're passionate about, and we've been able to see time and time again that game balancing is one of those topics. Historically, we've been relatively lenient on these types of comments, as we didn't want to stifle criticism. Today, we are putting our foot down and ensuring that everyone on the Boards, Rioters and players alike, are treated with respect. Folks who engage in harassment against another will be given a warning, and repeated attempts to harass players will result in suspensions.

If you have something to say, you can do so respectfully.

166 Comments

Melledoneus24 votes

If you have something to say, you can do so respectfully.

The fact that we even have to say this is saddening. It doesn't take a scholar to realize that saying mean-spirited things and lobbing insults isn't nice or useful.

I just hope we can act like adults like we should. Myself included.

Wukong Airlines7 votes

"Acting" like adults and "Being" adults are completely 2 different things.

I can come to boards and keep giving you the pinky butterfly "nice" positive attitude type of posts OR I can give you a constructive feedback WHICH has been done many MANY times and most certainly from me regarding many aspects about balance issues and how to fix/why my main MonkeyKing is fkin trashtier.

Do you know what I get? 0 communication from Meddler/Rioter/balance team member.

On the otherhand. I keep seeing those same rioters who are responsible for balance issues only posting on "Memes and Games" joining the "funneeh" discussion and wasting their time there.

Why?

Hello I am Bird2 votes

I think it's mainly because they're only going to share something if they have something to share on the topic. If they're not doing shit with Wukong, saying "Oh, this is interesting" and then never following up makes the community angry

DuskDaUmbreon6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monkey D Wuffy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WfEEZ3Br,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-10-27T09:44:51.528+0000)

"Acting" like adults and "Being" adults are completely 2 different things.

I can come to boards and keep giving you the pinky butterfly "nice" positive attitude type of posts OR I can give you a constructive feedback WHICH has been done many MANY times and most certainly from me regarding many aspects about balance issues and how to fix/why my main MonkeyKing is fkin trashtier.

You can do both. You can be courteous and give constructive feedback at the same time. Try "Hey, Wukong is pretty bad right now. Here's some ideas I had to fix him." Or, "Wukong's kinda crappy right now, can I get some information as to what's planned for him?"

Do you know what I get? 0 communication from Meddler/Rioter/balance team member.

Maybe because you're being an ass about it?

On the otherhand. I keep seeing those same rioters who are responsible for balance issues only posting on "Memes and Games" joining the "funneeh" discussion and wasting their time there.

Well, most Rioters have nothing to do with balance beyond what they have through proximity to actual balance team members. Tantram, for example, has only slightly more to do with balance than any of us do. And some Rioters' jobs are actually to post on the boards and communicate with players.

There's also the thing that not everyone is working all of the time. They could be posting from home, they could be on-break, they could just not have anything they need to get done at the moment, as they could be waiting on some other team member's work, or just be between projects.

There's also a line for attention. Wukong would need a small-scale rework at the least to fix his problems - simple numbers shifts won't be enough. You could check The Champion Roadmap for details into this, to see when Wukong might have time to be fit in.

Morendabanus2 votes

You clearly haven't ever tried communicating with Rioters that make changes to champions. These people will legit go into the subreddit of champions they're reworking, ask for feedback and ignore it.

Ask oldschool zac mains, rengar mains etc

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

That's for an entirely different reason.

Half the time they ignore it is because it's unhealthy, unrealistic, or just stupid.

Mordepool17 votes

In all honesty insults just detract from any meaningful discussion. Which is what we are all supposed to be here for

ModKnightsKemplar10 votes

We agree, and that's why we're posting about it!

The hope is that this will help elevate future discussions and lead to a much more constructive environment on Gameplay.

Bańg1 votes

[deleted]

ModKnightsKemplar12 votes

We're really happy for people to disagree in a civil manner with anyone else on the Boards. No one is asking everyone to love each other; we're just asking for the common decency and respect that makes polite society work.

It's a bit of a novel concept for internet forums, perhaps, but I don't think that should deter us from trying to have a place where civil discourse can occur.

Let me assure you that I have absolutely no interest in making everyone agree on every issue. If that's what this was about, I would step down as a Warden immediately.

Falcon Of Death12 votes

Oh so is this post referring to the recent posts of players putting their foot down and saying the balance team at Riot is actually missing chromosomes and should be fired after the RETARDED and GAMEBREAKING Galio changes? They've been destroying the game in large chunks for the past 2 years

Ignoring and then censoring negative community feedback is why the game is going downhill.

Frontline Fury43 votes

[{quoted}](name=Falcon Of Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WfEEZ3Br,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-10-27T05:12:34.783+0000)

Oh so is this post referring to the recent posts of players putting their foot down and saying the balance team at Riot is actually missing chromosomes and should be fired after the RETARDED and GAMEBREAKING Galio changes?

Come on, it’s not that hard. Here you could have said something like this instead:

«Is this post referring to the recent tidal wave of complaints about the (in my opinion) game breaking changes to Galio’s Q? I think it might have been a mistake to turn the scaling up that high, and the people in the balance teams should have tried making a bit more gradual changes over time rather than dumping every stat increase imagineable onto him immediately.»

Please. The post was making an example of ways you can better convey your message through civil mannerisms.

The moderators want us to be better. Wether they think we truly can doesnt matter - they want us to try. I, for one, want to strive to meet their optimistic expectations.

Falcon Of Death1 votes

[deleted]

Frontline Fury28 votes

[{quoted}](name=Falcon Of Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WfEEZ3Br,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2017-10-27T05:28:37.996+0000)

It's beyond being able to reason using "nice" language. The language I use is intentional and reflects the severity of utter fucking stupidity and incompetency of this company. Just not being a bunch of fucking apes would suffice, but no, they can't even do that. They devolved into pre-ape intelligence. It's not like they overbuffed Galio just a tiny bit. WHOEVER thought ANY of that would be okay on paper needs to be shot. Every single person in the balance team let THAT through PBE and ignored all feedback saying it was broken in PBE, and put it live. It's beyond fucking stupidity. If I worked as a web developer and got a shitton of negative feedback and just ignored it, I'd be fired instantly. But apparently, there is a different standard for game developers.

Once again, your extreme hostility is unnecessary. These are people, and they are a lot more likely to listen to you if you treat them with respect. The moderators want you to resist the primitive impulses in our brains that tell us to throw our poop at whatever we dislike. My initial impulse to reading your comment is to use the same description you repeat over and over against you - but where would that get me? You would get mad, stop reading whatever else i write and we'd be stuck here throwing our own poop at each other, like our primate instincts scream at us to do.

Yes, Galio is overtuned. Yes, it was a mistake. If you say that, calmly, they can accept your criticism and get to work righting their mistake. Now instead, they have to deal with the frustration of being called names by you first, before they calmly compose a reply that follows their company guidelines. Unlike you and i, these people have their livelihood relying on their behaviour. They have to be better.

And that is what they ask of us, now. Be better.

If i were to guess at the thinking behind the changes to Galio going live, i would think they thought there was a learning curve involved in figuring out how to deal with AP Galio. Perhaps players would learn how to play against it, and that once they did, it wouldn't be utterly busted.

Now, as we have found out - Galio is a little too strong. But he is not WAY too strong - he still struggles a little against team comps that deal a lot of physical damage.

He doesn't struggle quite as much as he should, but it proves the buff was not entirely wrong either. A couple number changes on his scaling and he'll be right where we want him to be - an anti mage that can actually deal with mages and still be a mage himself.

Warlord Dienekes21 votes

In fairness here, deleting the comments of or condescending being superior to angry people doesn't actually get rid of angry people. It just makes them angrier.

That's like, public relations 101. Has no one ever had a retail job?

Sp33d Zer011 votes

You can ban them. That usually shuts them up.

Warlord Dienekes7 votes

Nah, they usually just get sneakier with their insults, or go to a different board.

Or go play a different game. Which I don't think Riot wants.

Sp33d Zer07 votes

I don't think they want a bunch of people dropping insults at each other either.

"the balance team at Riot is actually missing chromosomes "

"GTFO %%%% fuck"

Are these really the types of people you would want to be seen on the face of your self-created community website that new players would be pulled into?

Warlord Dienekes4 votes

Personally, I've heard worse.

But that may be just me. Since I was a kid I've never really let insults bother me. Words are wind, nothing more.

They're also interesting indicators of player trends.

Sp33d Zer02 votes

I've never understood this "I've seen worse" response. I've seen stage 4 lung cancer, that doesn't mean I ignore people with stage 1 prostate cancer.

Warlord Dienekes3 votes

There is a bit of a false equivalence there. One is a physical malady that will kill you. The other is people being mean on the internet.

I can honestly say, I’ve been called worse things in my life, and they just don’t bother me.

Trying to shock me or make me feel anything about the quoted responses doesn’t really work. I don’t feel anything about them. They’re wind. They’re pointless. And they only have power over you if you let them.

OyddAWqJ5r13 votes

Good, get sneakier then. Typically that means tip-toeing around harassment which in turn means less harassment.

And the moment the line is crossed ban em again.

Melledoneus10 votes

Huh. That's very interesting.

Speaks into Radio ######We have someone here who knows too much. Including 'The Algorithm.' Permission to initiate protocol 94.

Wergugy2 votes

Dresses up as the cool aid man and starts running through walls

Starcraft243ver8 votes

That's totaly what riot wants. A ban is a way of saying to someone "we dont want you there anymore".

There are more players leaving because they are the target of toxicity than players leaving because they are banned for their toxicity.

Rinký Dinky2 votes

"in my opinion"

as if it wasn't an objective fact that Galio's buffs were gamebreaking

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

Here I'll show you how to not be toxic and say the same thing

[{quoted}](name=Falcon Of Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WfEEZ3Br,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-10-27T05:12:34.783+0000)

Oh so is this post referring to the recent posts of players putting their foot down and saying the balance team needs to fix those Galio changes?

Falcon Of Death2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WfEEZ3Br,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2017-10-27T08:36:15.132+0000)

Here I'll show you how to not be toxic and say the same thing

it's not just the galio changes lmao

The Trent11 votes

Once one of my comments was taken down and the rioter told me that he totally agreed with me, but I still should just keep it to myself. Was a good meme.

Wukong Airlines10 votes

Gotta love those "Fake nice-attitude" tryhards who think holding hands and being "nice" will fix the game that's been getting worse patch by patch season by season starting from S5

Why are you even posting this on behalf Rioters/Meddler/any other balance team member? Did they leave all their tasks to be done by interns? Why aren't they communicating with the community and are always late when they do so? why do they always give apologies instead of "MonkeyKing :every mistake is a lesson" learning from their dumb mistakes?

Why couldn't they do the "Math" and figure out the ratios will be absurd and broken on Galio's buffs? they never received proper education to do simple comparison "before" and "after" and "calculation" ?

I really, really am getting sick and tired of favoritism, why do you think they adjusted Galio ? oh because he fkin deserves it? No, because of their fkin Pro-play fame, they want to collect their bonus by the end of the year $$$.

Why do they keepMonkeyKing Udyr Volibear Garbage tier and why cant they adjust them like they adjusted motherfk*** Ekko overnight? again. Favoritism.

Salron17 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monkey D Wuffy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WfEEZ3Br,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2017-10-27T09:14:31.517+0000)

"Fake nice-attitude"

You mean manners? You just described basic manners

Ralanr10 votes

The Galio adjustment was actually to reduce his impact on proplay as a tank since he was being picked too often for offering too much.

From what I noticed, this more or less turned him into a SoloQ monster.

As for thinking being “nice” will fix the game, it’s not entirely that. We don’t believe that asking Riot, “pretty please with sugar on top” will suddenly make them listen to someone asking to buff Mundo so he does true damage or something. What we want to do is better bridge the communication between Riot and the players, and actually being nice/pretending to be nice/not being over antagonistic is usually the better way to attract people from Riot to the boards. Not overnight obviously.

I don’t believe it’s the job of anyone at Riot to go on the boards and talk to players (maybe Meddler, idk). In fact, I believe all Rioter comments are done on their own free time, meaning that they choose whether or not to interact with us. If I was in their shoes and I kept seeing daily posts of players calling me an ape for my decisions, I’d feel a lot less motivated to actually talk to those people.

So in short: pitchforks and torches make it much less likely to get a conversation.

Will it work? I’m hoping it will.

AirKingNeo5 votes

So in short: pitchforks and torches make it much less likely to get a conversation.

Riot doesn't want a conversation. It's just like the last french king; he shut out all input to the problems that were occurring. Not surprisingly, people lose patience after an amount of time and waste.

It is very much understandable and necessary for the level of disdain being displayed. It shows there is an issue and that it must be addressed. The problem won't get solved if no one complains, and if peaceful complaints won't work, then people are forced to get more aggressive.

Solidair39 votes

Good, I'm tired of the toxic atmosphere that you can see here. I was unhappy about Galio too, but I was able to do it without being an ass.

Murl0ugh9 votes

While your at it don't allow duplicate posts. Have one giant thread about how busted Galio (for example) is instead of 7 different discussions a day.

Some of us actually want to discuss and learn the game. It makes it hard when everyone needs their own little spotlight to bitch when anything happens with the game.

Falcon Of Death8 votes

more censorship ++

Sp33d Zer027 votes

Boards are a privilege, not a right.

SnakDatSmilesBak3 votes

Censorship on account of respect and lowering harassment is fine, imo. It's when you censor particular words deemed offensive that you get problems.

xelaker8 votes

good intentions, potential for terrible implementation. there's a thin line between what counts as harassment and "this offends me, so I'll remove it" sorts of stuff. tread lightly and use logic

gottrjr7 votes

{quoted}

Effective immediately, we will be moderating the Boards to more closely reflect our original intentions of the "Golden Rule". As per the Boards Universal Rules:

We understand that there are certain topics you're passionate about, and we've been able to see time and time again that game balancing is one of those topics. Historically, we've been relatively lenient on these types of comments, as we didn't want to stifle criticism. Today, we are putting our foot down and ensuring that everyone on the Boards, Rioters and players alike, are treated with respect. Folks who engage in harassment against another will be given a warning, and repeated attempts to harass players will result in suspensions.

If you have something to say, you can do so respectfully.

Isn't life about balance? Shouldn't good comments and bad comments go hand in hand? If somebody is allowed to be praised should they not be allowed to be flamed as well? Why the kid gloves? Why sugar coat everything? People need to get thicker skin. This over protection mentality is sad. They are just words.

Dr Poro8 votes

There is a difference between a bad comment and harrassment. You can say that the rioter that a rework/change sucks and is stupid. But when you say that the responsible rioter should get fired or commit suicide, that's obviously too far. Then there's a grey zone, though, when you attack the person but not severely "Rioter X is stupid because..."

CrazFight 3 votes

What exactly does this include? For example would this censor "Riot balance team should lose there jobs" posts? Personally I don't agree with removing comments of this kind, but i understand what its meant to do; just wondering what type of things will be removed. Like does saying "This new riot skins suck, riot really needs to get better at this shit" count as removal?

ModWuks10 votes

"This new riot skins suck, riot really needs to get better at this shit"

Replies like these aren't personal attacks, and provided context, might be a legitimate criticism. I wouldn't action on a comment like this.

"Riot balance team should lose there jobs"

This is a tricky one. If this is the extent of it, we'd probably just remove it since it doesn't actually contribute to the discussion and only furthers the negativity and perception of the Boards as a negative place. If you add meaningful context and use it as a hyperbole, I'd imagine it'd be fine.

Warlord Dienekes3 votes

What if someone literally thinks the balance team should lose their jobs and provides support with examples of balancing issues?

ModWuks4 votes

If you can respectfully portray it, then so be it. Use your best judgment to ensure that it doesn’t overstep into disrespect, and I’d say try to be constructive.

Warlord Dienekes12 votes

To whomever it may concern,

In the course of online gaming, there comes a time when it is necessary for the customers of the game to ask for the termination of those responsible for various grievances done upon them.

We hold that these balancing issues are obvious, and have grown wary and then angered by your apparent lack at understanding your own mechanics. We believe that the state of a games balance, should be based upon those more knowledgeable. After a season of harsh inequalities, and a steady mauling in the basic foundations of the game; ranging from the overbearing power of adcs, the ardent censer fiasco, the gutting of assassins, and now Galio.

We, the playerbase, ask for the resignation of the leaders of the balancing team. In a hope that fresh eyes and new insight will create an environment not plagued by these gross errors.

Just, for the record, I don't actually believe any of this. I was mostly just trying to think of a respectful way to ask for people to get fired.

So, would the above, if it was posted, get deleted?

ModWuks6 votes

It doesn't cross the line of harassment and doesn't break our rules of "don't be a jerk". It's fine.

PS: The Declaration of Independence is not an offensive topic in my opinion.

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Claps

Declaration of Independence.

Love it.

AirKingNeo2 votes

This is a tricky one. If this is the extent of it, we'd probably just remove it since it doesn't actually contribute to the discussion and only furthers the negativity and perception of the Boards as a negative place. If you add meaningful context and use it as a hyperbole, I'd imagine it'd be fine.

That's censorship and you know it. If someone holds the opinion that someone is unfit for their position, they have the right to express it. Anything otherwise is tyrannical.

And no, it is not a hyperbole.

ModUlanopo14 votes

{quoted}

That's censorship and you know it. If someone holds the opinion that someone is unfit for their position, they have the right to express it. Anything otherwise is tyrannical.

And no, it is not a hyperbole.

You're right. It absolutely is censorship, but that doesn't make it automatically wrong or bad. There are times where censorship and/or sanction are the correct course of action.

No free speech is absolute. You can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater (unless, of course, there actually is a fire). You can't plot to assassinate the president.

The type of "free speech" you're advocating here is corrosive to any sort of actual discourse. It's much the same as the long-haired nutter getting up on his soapbox and ranting about THE END OF DAYS. Perhaps you should look into the Paradox of Tolerance.

When someone has abandoned reason and respect for others, it is morally proper to take action against them. No tyranny involved.

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