can fiora have mana costs? she spammed all day 1-6 never went near oom

Kaokentake·Jan 29, 2016·111 votes·5,310 views

the real problem with fiora is you may as well remove her mana pool

stop fooling around riot. fiora is basically trynd and riven level in terms of a resource

fiora HAS NO RESOURCe

fiora spammed her crap all day in lane against me level 1-6 and didnt go near OOM

riot. throw some real mana costs on fioras spells and that might actually balance her and bring her winrate and power in line

oh yeah and after 9 minutes of course fiora will basically play as if she has no mana bar. most melee champions are like this. but christ AT LEAST before lvl6 can you make it feel like she has a resource riot

113 Comments

SaiannaJan 29, 201655 votes

It's not about just Fiora..

Like it's some kind of new fashion where new champions should not be bound by mana gating even though they use it as resource.

Old champions had it damn hard.. Just look at Sona, 2 spell roations pre 6 and you are dry. Ekko? He had free ultimate. Just for lolz. And rest of his kit allowed him to spam spells like mad.

TheThundersRoarJan 29, 201617 votes

Old champions were when LoL was a new game and inspired by other MOBAs, and you can see it in their kits. Targeted spells, high mana costs, etc.

This game has since deviated from that, but if you go play Dota 2 you can still see it. One spell and you're OOM. 2 if you're lucky.

Not that either practice is necessarily bad. But 5 games of another MOBA and once you're back here, you'll make every champion look like Garen with your epic mana conservation skills.

SaiannaJan 29, 20169 votes

Thing is, some champions have seriously visible different mana problems.

Some, like Ekko or Fiora, are almost Katarina resource dependant.

Others, like Sona, few meager, crappy spells and suddenly you are forced to just tickle your enemies.

Mana probles disparity between "new" champions and "old" ones is so freaking unfair...

PsyturkeyJan 29, 20163 votes

Now, I agree with you but Sona is a bad example because she has heals. She must be mana gated or her team sustain would be out of control.

Laughing FishJan 29, 20166 votes

Azir has mana problems.

WalkingInACircleJan 29, 201624 votes

Hah, next you'll want your defensive stats to matter.

MelledoneusJan 29, 20163 votes

Tanks become useless in the presence of Fiora.

NegusInParisJan 29, 20162 votes

Kills tanks twice

MelledoneusJan 29, 20166 votes

Ok, what killed me? 300 physical damage, uh-huh... Eyes widen in fear, veins pop up Th-th-THREE THOUSAND TRUE DAMAGE?!?

WalkingInACircleJan 29, 20168 votes

Don't worry, tanks still have hard cc.

NegusInParisJan 29, 201615 votes

You should riposte that comment

MelledoneusJan 29, 20161 votes

I'd like to see a one for all where Fioras ricochet Ripostes off each other. It'd be like ping pong.

Deadly MittensJan 30, 20161 votes

But who throws the initial cc?

Dragon knockback?

MelledoneusJan 30, 20163 votes

Scuttle Crab.

clickheadJan 30, 20161 votes

Interestingly enough, Fiora does more physical damage than true damage in most cases (like vayne). But yeah, still a lot of true damage.

Great OzymandiusJan 30, 20163 votes

Not if you build armor. Playing as a tank with a weak early game and no ranged csing abilities is absolute torture versus Fiora.

I know it's a hard counter, but sometimes you get counterpicked -- playing Nasus into Fiora is balls. It is stupid. At no point in the game and with no strategy can you beat Fiora 1v1 and you will never get enough farm to contribute elsewhere on the map (if she is any good). Even if the jungler ganks for you and gets you ahead it doesn't matter.

She is a severe lane bully early. She can use her mobility to zone you away from all creeps. You will get few stacks. Normally in these situations as Nasus you want to stack armor and play for the later game (It's easy to win versus a pantheon and with good decision making you can beat a riven). But her % max health true damage means that doesn't work. She can kill you almost as quickly regardless the armor (or health) you build. The only way to win a fight with her is to kill her faster than she kills you. But because you can't get stacks and because Nasus does his damage over a more extended time, she can out-heal your damage.

It's so stupid. I remember build a good amount of armor versus Fiora and a large majority of her damage would be %maxhealthtruedamage.

Sure counterpicks happen but Fiora has no weakness in lane. Gating her mana, as OP suggests, would give me counterplay. I could bait out her mobility or parry spells, giving me windows to farm q. I can't do that as things currently stand. There is no way to win lane versus a competent Fiora as Nasus barring the jungler camping top so that I can get a hefty lead on her, and let's be honest that shouldn't be necessary for a matchup not to end in utter disaster.

Stray KatJan 29, 201616 votes

I'm not sure what you're going on about. I play Fiora on a regular basis. It's quite easy to go Oom as Fiora. Yes, her Q is very spammable. All day long. But if you use a full combo it takes out a large chunk of your mana pool.

I mean, yes, it's also quite easy to NOT go Oom. Such as using Q>E Or Q>W, and only using them sparingly, but it does take a bit of attention paid to manage it. The easiest way is to just use your Q>E combo any time a vital is facing you, and disengage(For harass, this isn't talking about an all-in). Even doing that, you'll still be hurting for Mana by the time you hit level 6 if you consistently harass your opponent when the vitals are favorable.

I will say it's easier to manage my mana with her than it is with some spammy mages, or a couple of toplane fighters, but it's still comparable to other champs. She'll run out in a comparable fashion to nasus, if they both were spamming.

A Sad ButtjobJan 29, 20165 votes

{quoted}

I'm not sure what you're going on about. I play Fiora on a regular basis. It's quite easy to go Oom as Fiora. Yes, her Q is very spammable. All day long. But if you use a full combo it takes out a large chunk of your mana pool.

I mean, yes, it's also quite easy to NOT go Oom. Such as using Q>E Or Q>W, and only using them sparingly, but it does take a bit of attention paid to manage it. The easiest way is to just use your Q>E combo any time a vital is facing you, and disengage(For harass, this isn't talking about an all-in). Even doing that, you'll still be hurting for Mana by the time you hit level 6 if you consistently harass your opponent when the vitals are favorable.

I will say it's easier to manage my mana with her than it is with some spammy mages, or a couple of toplane fighters, but it's still comparable to other champs. She'll run out in a comparable fashion to nasus, if they both were spamming.

this ^

SaltyKrackaJan 29, 20168 votes

Haha, what? Sure, it might take Nasus a while to run out of mana if he's only using Q, but have you ever taken a look at the rest of his kit? Wither costs 80 regardless of level, and his E starts at 70 and stops at 130.

Nasus can't spam for shit.

kile147Jan 29, 20161 votes

I don't think Nasus actually runs out of mana using Q if he doesn't take CDR runes

Auz the RipperJan 29, 20163 votes

his Q has a cost of 20, at level 1 he regenerates around 1.5 mana per second and his Q a CD of 8 seconds so he has a net loss of 8 mana if he spams Q at level 9 he regenerates around 2.3 mana per second and his Q has a CD of 4 seconds so he has a net loss of 11 mana if he spams Q

it's really hard but not impossible

CalabokJan 29, 201614 votes

A Fiora managed her mana properly against you and you belly ache about it. Uh huh...

TonyTonyMordecaiJan 29, 20168 votes

Exactly. Not to defend Fiora (since people seem to be having troubles against her), but her spells have low costs but low cooldowns (her Q) and if she's dashing around not being smart about it, she'll be out of mana and not be able to use her ultimate or parry to grab a kill or even avoid a hard cc spell that would bring about her death.

TransgressorJan 29, 201611 votes

Pragmatically speaking, there's no possible fucking way in this reality, for a champion to spam spells and not go oom provided they have a mana resource.

So yeah, stop fishing for free upvotes, and get good at the game.

SoMNiaJan 29, 20169 votes

This is blatantly incorrect. Fiora carelessly spamming can go OOM quite easily. The Fiora you played against obviously managed her mana properly. I'm not sure what else to say.

Critmaster GarenJan 29, 20168 votes

meh. imo they should have actually just made her resourceless. shes like yasuo. needs her spells to be able to carry, and doesnt directly auto attack a lot.

see. you have to compare her to champs like yi or tryn. both carry mainly through their auto attacks which are resourcless in the first place. even if tryn had mana he would still hit like truck thanks to his passive and his ability to build 6 offensive items.

yasuo and fiora barely use their auto attacks directly and are most reliant on their abilities to do the same. so they have either low spell costs or none at all.

DeloricVIJan 29, 20162 votes

Yeah, Fiora needs to be more like Yasuo, the champion that everyone hates.

I think the hatred generated by making Fiora, a champion everyone already hates, more like Yasuo, someone that everyone arguably hates even more, would be enough to make Teemo say, "Well, shit. I thought I was the source of all hatred in League of Legends..."

Bottom line, I can't think of any resourceless champion that people don't hate. If you have a rage bar, flow meter, or just nothing at all below your health bar, the community wants to ask you to please crawl into a hole and die, for the most part.

Critmaster GarenJan 29, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, Fiora needs to be more like Yasuo, the champion that everyone hates.

I think the hatred generated by making Fiora, a champion everyone already hates, more like Yasuo, someone that everyone arguably hates even more, would be enough to make Teemo say, "Well, shit. I thought I was the source of all hatred in League of Legends..."

Bottom line, I can't think of any resourceless champion that people don't hate. If you have a rage bar, flow meter, or just nothing at all below your health bar, the community wants to ask you to please crawl into a hole and die, for the most part.

half the population of this game who even plays ranked plays in bronze and silver. yasuo has a kit thats not very straight forward to play against. you have to pay attention to a lot of details. most people cant do that.

but he isnt op and actually has enough counterplay to his abilities. plus, he specifically counters ranged champions. so naturally all people who play that kindof champions already dont like him.

Mecha MaIphiteJan 29, 20167 votes

I could care less if they made her Q cost nothing. Her W though. It's a very powerful skill when timed correctly, sometimes even when it's not, and it only costs 50 mana. A good Fiora isn't going to spam it every time it's up, either.

SpongebobIsLifeJan 29, 20161 votes

yeah the w is broken. The fact that she can ignore every single thing that comes at her for x amount of seconds (don't know the amount off the top of my head) is ridiculous. I think if they limited how many things she could block with it, she'd be perfectly fine, but between her w and her passive she just seems too tanky without actually being innately tanky.

Baron of BreadJan 29, 20164 votes

It only lasts .75 seconds. That seems pretty reasonable to me if you look at things like the troll pole and blood pool, heck that might even be shorter than Alpha Strike. Still annoying though.

LordKentravyonJan 29, 20163 votes

That's a really good point about it. People get up in arms "A DEFENSIVE ABILITY THAT BLOCKS EVERYTHING FOR THE DURATION?" because that is its 100% intended purpose, whilst other defensive / utility abilities such as the ones you listed are comparable or stronger (the only factor for them not being blatantly stronger being the reflect CC portion of Fiora's) Some like troll poll get a lot of complaints (but thats solely due to cooldown on it) whilst the others are automatically justified.

Phuc Dat BichJan 29, 20165 votes

20 mana Q

Riot balance....

KaisadiIIaJan 29, 20162 votes

Karthus' Q at rank 1 also costs 20 mana.

Riot balance....

frigginmurlocsJan 29, 20164 votes

Karthus auto attack May as we'll not exist

SirHeavyScrotumJan 29, 20162 votes

Why won't we exist in May?

BlackTh0ughtzJan 29, 20165 votes

You cannot mindlessly spam with Fiora and not run out of mana that's just not true.

UnderscorBunniesJan 29, 20164 votes

Erm wat. I go oom pre-6 Fiora all the time. I go oom on Fiora at any point in the game for that matter. That being said, of course her mana costs are low, and it causes her to go oom less than some other top laners, but Fioras can definitely run out of mana

Hughie1987Jan 29, 20164 votes

I love Fiora but have you ever used say Alistar or Maokai? their mana runs outs so fucking fast! Alistar Maokai

Weiner the PoohJan 30, 20162 votes

Obviously all of her skills need to cost the same as Lux's E.

InHaruhiWeTrustJan 30, 20162 votes

i run out of mana all the time with fiora early, so i'm not really sure what your talking about. unless your talking about late game, then yeah she pretty much doesn't have mana. allot of champions are similar late game, but she does seem to suffer much less. if she had higher mana costs then farming with her would be a nightmare. i also don't understand what the deal is with all the fiora Q.Q other than her English VO, which is why i changed mine to the french VO... its beautiful [slayer-pantheon-rainbows]

The EcdysiastJan 30, 20161 votes

This guy is just confusing use of her Q for spamming of all her abilities. He probably thinks that's her only ability, all things considered that her E isn't really noticeable and the W has a long cooldown.

InHaruhiWeTrustJan 30, 20161 votes

this guy is talking like i can't see his comment for some reason.....

The EcdysiastJan 31, 20162 votes

I meant the original guy.

InHaruhiWeTrustJan 31, 20161 votes

please forgive my foolishness good sir. i misunderstood Q.Q

bobsenbobJan 29, 20161 votes

ya know fioras winrate isn't actually that high? its 51.6 which is generally considered in the healthy zone by riot

LuciferJan 29, 20164 votes

Uh, if you have more that 15 games with her it jumps to like 55%. That's also considering she's banned all the time, so people aren't even really "maining" her, they're just abusing the free elo when she's open.

TTUPhoenixJan 29, 20164 votes

And yet, no matter how many games people play with her after that point, her win rate generally sits around 54%, even after 125+ games. This means that she's not super easy to pick up, but a modicum of experience delivers consistently good performance on her.

In contrast, people who play Mordekaiser top (by most metrics, Morde is one of the worst top laner) have a 67.5% win rate after 50 or more games with him. Does that mean they're just abusing Morde's freelo?

SirHeavyScrotumJan 29, 20161 votes

The problem is that Fiora is a pretty high skill cap, which is why you see her get picked or banned like 90% in the LCS but hardly touched in low elo. A champ that's difficult to play should have a lower win rate.

Dar RaksadaJan 30, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The problem is that Fiora is a pretty high skill cap, which is why you see her get picked or banned like 90% in the LCS but hardly touched in low elo. A champ that's difficult to play should have a lower win rate.

She's also somewhat of a 'noobstomper' in that you need to have a general idea how to play against her.* As you can see from my mastery score I played fiora a lot** and there's a very noticable difference between people that know how to play against her and those that see her for the first time. It's the difference between winning or losing lane, getting fed or feeding.

aka not rush her when the vital points toward her.
- Never in ranked, I'm still not very good with her and she doesn't feel impactful enough when not fed to crazy heights to me