Riot, Please buff thornmail or make impactful

FreshAsFebreze·Jul 2, 2016·6 votes·657 views

The fact that an auto attacker can buy a smidge of life steal and negate whatever effects it causes is truly a shame.

16 Comments

ConnoriamJul 2, 20162 votes

The fact that a tank can buy a single item and negate whatever damage the auto attacker deals is truly a shame.. On a serious note though, try building an item 3123 and they wont heal as much :p

FreshAsFebrezeJul 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

The fact that a tank can buy a single item and negate whatever damage the auto attacker deals is truly a shame.. On a serious note though, try building an and they wont heal as much :p

this might be the dumbest comment I have ever read

ConnoriamJul 5, 20161 votes

Your comment is pretty foolish. I took your line and turned it around to an auto attackers perspective, all as a joke. Don't get butt hurt buddy.

Pierce The VealJul 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Your comment is pretty foolish. I took your line and turned it around to an auto attackers perspective, all as a joke. Don't get butt hurt buddy.

Meanwhile an autoattacker can buy a single item to negate 45% of the stats you got from your 5 items. Your 4 armor items are now effectively 2 armor items because of a single item.

FreshAsFebrezeJul 5, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Your comment is pretty foolish. I took your line and turned it around to an auto attackers perspective, all as a joke. Don't get butt hurt buddy.

Well you're not very good at "typing" jokes.

AlienPrimateJul 5, 20162 votes

Let's do some maths.

Enemy team is full ad and I pick Taric at support with the following build.
item 3047 item 3110 item 3075 item 3069 item 2045 item 3068

Relevant level 18 stats:

434 bonus armor, 519 total armor

I don't know much about ADC's in general so I will do a guestimation on the stats.

ADC has 350 AD, 100% crit (for simplification), 2.5 crit damage, 20% lifesteal, 52% armor pen, 15% bonus physical damage

Auto attacks deal 1006 damage with no armor.

Attack ignores 52% bonus armor so that drops Taric to 291 effective armor which is 100/391 damage taken or 26%.

Auto attacks deal 257 damage to Taric.

Thornmail reflects 15% of the damage before damage reduction for 151 damage. It also reflects 25% bonus armor for 109 damage. Magic damage reflected before MR is 260.

With scaling MR glyphs, the ADC would have 57 MR for 100/157 or 64% magic damage taken.

Thornmail does 166 damage.

The ADC with 20% lifesteal heals for 51 with each auto against Taric.

The net damage from thornmail in this situation with each attack is 115.

Taric has 3105 HP and the ADC has 1900 HP.

Not including some masteries like fervor of battle and executioner, here is their HP with strictly auto attacks.

3105-------1900 2848-------1785 2591--------1670 2334--------1555 2077--------1440 1820--------1325 1563--------1210 1306--------1095 1049--------980 792-----------865 535-----------750 278-----------635 21--------------520 -236 ----------405 -493----------290 -750 ----------175 -1007--------60

Taric's Q heals for 291 and W shields for 373. That would reduce his damage taken by 664 putting him at -343 hp when the ADC has 60. I think it is safe to say that the support can easily win this fight 1v1 against the adc by landing a single stun.

I know this is an extreme case with an enemy team being full AD and a Taric pick who scales off of armor but Thornmail is made for these extreme cases and not simply to counter a single fed ADC.

Edit: I forgot 1 very important stat in this whole thing which is Ninja Tabi. 12% basic attack damage reduction for Taric would reduce healing done for the ADC and damage taken for Taric by a fair amount. I don't feel like redoing the whole thing so just keep that in mind.

FreshAsFebrezeJul 6, 20161 votes

Appreciate the great in dept analysis, really, but this doesn't seem to happen in game. I went full armor Garen, item 3068 item 3075 item 3742 item 3047 item 3143 item 3083 and was shredded by a jinx I think while watching her life not even be touched. There is some factor we're missing that obviously plays a big effect I just dont know what it is. I just watch the malphites and garens of the world get melted by Full AD teams. You never see a full AP team because MR plays such a more effective role along with no life steal component

AlienPrimateJul 6, 20161 votes

I don't know what to say about that. I had a one for all game Lux vs Jinx and built full armor with the exception of Rabadons and carried my team in kills and damage dealt. I could go 1 vs 3 and get a triple kill fairly easily that game on a tank Lux.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1981324205/209287161?tab=overview

zlumpyJul 5, 20162 votes

The real problem with buying Thornmail atm is it doesn't help with %life damage. So if you put a reduce %hp dmg on it everyone would be happy :D

Vayne: "wait I won't be-"

Me"EVERBODY WILL BE HAPPY!!!"

khorneyJul 2, 20161 votes

it is impactful it gets stronger the more armor you have

ErockandrollJul 4, 20162 votes

{quoted}

it is impactful it gets stronger the more armor you have

have people forgotten that Life steal, is post Armor? of coarse More armor is going to be impactful. 100 Armor is going to cut LS in half, simply because it cuts Damage in half. (not even including the return damage)

Darkslayer85Jul 5, 20161 votes

The thing with this item is that if it gets too powerful, it'll be picked up by ADCs, just like steraks.

Azules500Jul 6, 20161 votes

Well, you made the ADC buy a lord dominik's regards and a lifesteal item (BT), just by purchasing a thornmail, so I think that is pretty worth.

FreshAsFebrezeJul 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Well, you made the ADC buy a lord dominik's regards and a lifesteal item (BT), just by purchasing a thornmail, so I think that is pretty worth.

But dont they buy that stuff anyway? Whats the point of a counter auto attack item if they ADCs just buy regular stuff anyway

Azules500Jul 6, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But dont they buy that stuff anyway? Whats the point of a counter auto attack item if they ADCs just buy regular stuff anyway

You forced the ADC to buy weaker AD items (last whisper -25 ad and bt doesn't have crit). If you think about the alternative: hypothetically they could have bought 2 item 3031 . So you just debuffed the ADC by -5 ad and -40 crit. Just the fact that you made the ADC get a last whisper item, which gives subpar AD, is pretty good. ADCs don't get item 3036 unless there is armor on the other team. BTW: if you build thornmail on Rammus, you will sh*t on Yasuo's and Yi's just by pressing W.