Since Riot stated zhonyas was too safe, they nerfed the cooldown to 120 seconds from 90 seconds. And yet on the other side of the damage discipline, Maw is available every 90 seconds. So basically, Riot just makes an unfair advantage for mostly midlanes on the AD side. If you nerf the main 1v1 ability on the AP side, you should follow suit on the AD side. The favoritism is real.
IcyPepper13 votesTo be fair, the zhonyas active can be used against AP too. Maw does nothing against attack damage.
FreshAsFebreze4 votesTo be fair, the zhonyas active can be used against AP too. Maw does nothing against attack damage.
Well thats all AP mages have as a "defensive save" item. AD has 
. Now granted those are all items vs AP, and that is what this discussion is focused on. Im sick of seeing all AD teams.
KaRniVooL136 votesnone of those items makes the champ who has them invulnerable or untargetable they can still be killed
FreshAsFebreze1 votesnone of those items makes the champ who has them invulnerable or untargetable they can still be killed
they can still be killed and still kill. Zed being an obvious example is perfectly fine with just a shield.
KaRniVooL132 voteszed hasnt been worth in a long while...
SwiftKitten881 voteszed hasnt been worth in a long while...
zed is fine... he just isn't OP anymore
checks zed winrate
ok well maybe he isn't fine ... but... he is better off than than champs who seriously needs buffs like 
and 
KaRniVooL131 votesyou actually had to go see his win rate to know after the rework or armor pen and the longer cd on his shadow and the rework of his q and the rework of his ult to know he isnt worth picking any more?
he isnt free win zed any more you actually have to be good on him to make him worth while...
funny cuz players who have 125+ games on him have a win rate over 56%
SwiftKitten882 votesyou actually had to go see his win rate to know after the rework or armor pen and the longer cd on his shadow and the rework of his q and the rework of his ult to know he isnt worth picking any more?
he isnt free win zed any more you actually have to be good on him to make him worth while...
funny cuz players who have 125+ games on him have a win rate over 56%
well he still completly murdered our mid laner last game after she was 3/0 and he was 0/3...
so yeah i had to check... i understand people who main a champ are going to have a winrate much higher than the "average" winrate.
i have over 1k games on nid. even with her having a 41% win rate, i can still get S+ on her.
but i have mained nid since the day i started playing in patch 3.6. and with over 1000 if there is ANY time i cant get a 50% win rate on her... she needs HUGE buffs.
i can manage it now.. but just barely.
nids winrate is 40-45% from bronze - challenger
zed is 45-48%
reksai is... wow... didnt realize how much colossus buffed him XD. ok well maybe he is the same area as zed.
guess i can play rek'sai again now... YAY.
ok.. note to self.. check winrate BEFORE making posts...
Sraeg20136 votesZhonya makes it's user unable to act too.
In 95%+ of cases it's a "I'll respawn 2.5 seconds later" button.
Maw tanks at least half of a mage's rotation while permitting it's user to act freely.
Anags2 votesSaying it isn't that good because a lot of people use it incorrectly doesn't make sense.
I love when peoplease use it after taking multiple ults to the face. When you can use it to ignore ults and cc if used correctly.
KaRniVooL133 votesand MAW dont shield physical damage...
there is a pro and con to every fukin thing in this game from runes, masteries, summoner spells, champs , items. etc
that is how the game is balanced
now stop bitching about everything
FreshAsFebreze4 votesand MAW dont shield physical damage...
there is a pro and con to every fukin thing in this game from runes, masteries, summoner spells, champs , items. etc
that is how the game is balanced
now stop bitching about everything
YOURE NOT GOING TO BUY A FUCKING MAW IF YOURE FACING AD MID do you people not get that!?
KaRniVooL133 votesand you are gonna get zhoynas which has an active that also stacks ARMOR and gives CDR and AP
maw dont give an active... it dont stack MR it gives base mr ... and it only triggers passive if you take damage from ap... but even with the shield if you are fed enough you can still blow them up with it. ALSO cost 3250 gold compared zhonyas for 2900 its 350 more gold to get the completed item
and you dont just build it always it depends on ENTIRE TEAM COMP
but CRY MORE i dont think you have flooded the boards yet
PS they did NERF it they took the armor pen out of it
FreshAsFebreze2 votesand you are gonna get zhoynas which has an active that also stacks ARMOR and gives CDR and AP
maw dont give an active... it dont stack MR it gives base mr ... and it only triggers passive if you take damage from ap... but even with the shield if you are fed enough you can still blow them up with it. ALSO cost 3250 gold compared zhonyas for 2900 its 450 more gold to get the completed item
and you dont just build it always it depends on ENTIRE TEAM COMP
but CRY MORE i dont think you have flooded the boards yet
PS they did NERF it they took the armor pen out of it
All I read is cluelessness.
KaRniVooL131 votesfigures cuz you have zero comprehension
Unpermabannable 2 votesfigures cuz you have zero comprehension
I agree with you bro, mage mains think they're entitled to something when they already have absurd utility and damage LOL. The difference between Maw and Zhonyas is that Zhonyas can negate a whole rotation and it's core on EVERY MAGE. I guess this baddie wants wits end nerfed too. LMAO. Zhonyas is literally a "drop your burst on the enemy team and press me" button.
NineTailedMystic1 votesExcept Zhonya's is garbage stat wise.
KaRniVooL132 votesis it?
let compare shall we
3250 gold 50 AD 45MR 10% CDR
2900 gold 70AP 45ARM 10% CDR
looks very comparable raw stat wise ...
and it has more damage, same amount of resistances same cdr and is 350 gold less
FreshAsFebreze3 votesis it?
let compare shall we
looks very comparable raw stat wise ...
and it has more damage, same amount of resistances same cdr and is 350 gold less
realize something with the damage, in order for an AP mage to do the most amount of damage they need to build about 700-800 whereas, on the AD side, they only need about 300 so 50/300 = 16.67%, AP 70/700 = 10% therefore, Maw is more efficient to dmg building
KaRniVooL132 votesand you realize that ap items have higher raw damage stats ?
how many ad items have 100 ad?
how many ap items have 100 ap or more?
NONE FOR AD
let alone other items that give at least 70 ap or more
plus all champs have scaling ARMOR per level ( except for 
) but only melee champs get mr per lvl and ranged champs dont they are stuck with flat 30 mr unless they build MR
NineTailedMystic4 votesItems have higher AP than AD because AP ratios are lower, while AD ratios are either Bonus or Total AD which gets pretty high either way. Not to mention the 1.0 AD Ratio that can get to less than a second CD that is an Autoattack.
Cosmic Warper4 votesand you realize that ap items have higher raw damage stats ?
how many ad items have 100 ad?
how many ap items have 100 ap or more?
NONE FOR AD
let alone other items that give at least 70 ap or more
plus all champs have scaling ARMOR per level ( except for
AP ratios are generally lower than AD ratios, and AD champs' autos scale with their AD items...
KaRniVooL131 votesyes majority of of ap ratios are lower then ad ratios mainly because of most ap damage is aoe or can hit more then one target.
RocketRelm1 votesUNIQUE – LIFEGRIP: Grants +20 attack damage, +10% spell vamp and +10% life steal until out-of-combat.
Often times there's enough residual magic AoE to make the shield worth something, and the 10% Omnivamp can actually give you quite a lot of HP. Especially if you roll the buff after the confrontation onto the creep wave, jungle, or Dragon.
IcyPepper1 votes>10% spell vamp
That makes no sense on an anti-AP AD item :/
LIfesteal or spell vamp, not both plz :V
RocketRelm1 votesSpellvamp is an AD stat though.
No, I'm serious. That's Riot's actual official stance.
IcyPepper1 votesI know it's universal, I'm talking more about how the item is supposed to counter magic damage, which is primarily through abilities.
Lifegrip just seems too... spread out in that case. ADC's don't exactly need more sustain nowadays, but wouldn't it make more sense to have either lifesteal or spellvamp? Besides, I thought RIot was phasing spellvamp itemization out of the game completely...
RocketRelm1 votesNo, I don't mean universal. I mean spell vamp is officially an AD and not an AP stat.
AP champions can use it, but they are no longer the primary intended beneficiaries.
Rito Statement Patch 6.9 Heading into our upgraded Hextech weaponry prompts an important question: why is all the spell vamp gone?
Let’s start by comparing it to lifesteal. Thematically, lifesteal gives the feeling that you’re fighting back against death, creating tense 1 on 1 duels with uncertain outcomes. Mechanically, lifesteal says ‘I may have a small health bar but you’ve got to focus me down or I’ll regenerate to full.’ Spell vamp, while sounding similar, doesn’t quite hit the same bar. Unlike basic attacks, no two abilities are the same, which makes the stat wildly variable in value.
This means that it’s functionally impossible to make spell vamp work the way you’d expect, and it instead operates on myriad edge-cases to avoid feeling abusive and unintuitive. Cut to today’s world where it’s only used on Vladimir (whose balance is kept lock-step with the stat), it’s easy to see why it had to go.
tldr: Spellvamp is now Lifesteal**+**. This is seen by all instances of spell vamp present in the game being coupled with Lifesteal, with the sole exception of Morgana's Passive, which is grandfathered in.
IcyPepper1 votesI don't even know what to say, honestly.
NineTailedMystic1 votesBecause Spellvamp applies to AD champions abilities too.
IcyPepper1 votesI know that, I'm talking thematically here. The anti-mage part, not the AD part.
NineTailedMystic1 votesI'd imagine it's because they don't want to punish AD casters for buying the item like the bruisers and juggs it was intended for.
IcyPepper1 votesIt just seems so weird, especially since I thought they were trying to phase out spellvamp itemization. Wouldn't it make sense to make it like Hextech Gunblade if they absolutely must need healing?
NineTailedMystic1 votesNah, they just wanted to phase out Spellvamp itemization for Mages because it was unbalancable since Vladimir existed. I doubt they have issue with it when its on an AD Caster/Bruiser item like Maw since it gives Bruisers more of their needed survivability.
ChaddyFantome9 votesAnyone that thinks a shield that only blocks magic damage is equivalent to a literal fk u invincibility button needs help. Just because they are the "go to" items to get vs AD/AP in a an uncertain/losing matchup does not make them the same.
Hell, Maw isn't even meant for a comparable class.
Sraeg20135 votesYou are right. They aren't comparable.
Zhonya is flat out useless, if you don't have a team to back you up.
GULAG 4 U2 votesToo bad it allows you to shit on zed easily : ^)
SnugglePuggle943 votesYeah for one Zed ult rotation. Then he can shit on you when the active is down probably even more than once cause his ult has a lower CD than Zhonya's anyway.
xevi2 votesimplying that zhonyas having a shorter cd than zed ult would be balanced
SnugglePuggle943 votesAhem I said Zed's ult cd is shorter than Zhonya's at later levels so Zhonya's is definitely not balanced. Learn to read please.
Mighty Mortein1 votesYeah, and since Zeds build a fair amount of CDR.
Sraeg20131 votesWith nerfed armor pen (now "Lethality") I'm always rushing CDR, especially with building out of 
.
Well, ANY amount of CDR makes Zed's ult having a shorter cooldown than Zhonya's.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesWith nerfed armor pen (now "Lethality") I'm always rushing CDR, especially with
Well, ANY amount of CDR makes Zed's ult having a shorter cooldown than Zhonya's.
Lethality is great tho... 0_o
I don't even run Precision and it's still pretty great.
Sraeg20134 votesLethality is great tho... 0_o
Lmao. You either need to get Lethality on every single item or wait until level 16-18 so it breaks even with old armor pen.
I can't see a single reason for it being "great".
ßurst2 votessame its absolute kaka and like the only assassin rn that can use some lethality decently is kha because he can go invis and make use of duskblade well, but other than that its poop
Asayake 5150glow1 votesLmao. You either need to get Lethality on every single item or wait until level 16-18 so it breaks even with old armor pen.
I can't see a single reason for it being "great".
But I do get it on every single item...
BC+Youmuus+Duskblade+Edge of Night...
Obviously it's more powerful than the lifesteal alternative (BC+Rav+Deaths Dance+BT) but the lifesteal honestly isn't missed too much in teamfighting if you won't get a lot of free autos off.
Sraeg20131 votesYou failed the moment you included Black Cleaver as a Lethality item.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesYou failed the moment you included Black Cleaver as a Lethality item.
It's armor pen, which stacks with Lethality. shrugs. I went Youmuu's first in my Riven mid 4v5 game where we won.
Sraeg20131 votesIt stacks with lethality as much as it stacked with flat armor pen.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesIt stacks with lethality as much as it stacked with flat armor pen.
Yes... except Duskblade and Edge are more effective than old Duskblade and Maw after level 8. And at level 18, it's not just 10 extra flat pen than before, since that 10 flat pen scales with the 40 you already had and would've had with the old build.
Youmuu's did get nerfed but tbh I'm not feeling a huge fall off in damage.