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Not complaining, but what is Gragas' weakness or weak point in the game supposed to be?

5G8Nri0B54··4 votes·2,599 views

I don't consider him OP nor do I want him nerfed or anything. However, I do have difficulty figuring out what his intended weakness is supposed to be. And part of that is partly because he doesn't have any obvious holes in his kit and more importantly, the fact that I haven't seen him since his nerf after whatshisname wrecked face with him during LCS

To me, Gragas may very well be one of those extremely powerful champions who inexplicably sees very little play because reasons. For my part, the lack of any appealing skin combined with my lack of desire to play the LoL's equivalent of Barney Gumble is why I avoid playing him, not because of any gameplay reasons.

SO...his strengths are obvious. So what are Gragas' weakness? From my observation he has ranged harass and easy farming. An amazing game-winning R. His damage is high. He has built in sustain. He can inflict % damage so he'll always be relevant throughout the game even if he goes full-tank. He has amazing utility. He has surprising amounts of mobility. Oh, and damage reduction too.

So what are his weaknesses supposed to be? Does he have like, a hard time maintaining his mana even with a Catalyst or something? There something I'm overlooking?

And I repeat, I do NOT consider him OP or in need of nerfs atm...on the grounds that I never actually played against one after all this time.

19 Comments

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

the lack of any appealing skin

Gragas Esq. is an amazing skin. Very classy.

Hmm, his weaknesses depend on his position, build, and the time.

In top lane, he can't really do much against ranged champions since they can use their minions to block his E, outrange his W, and his Q is telegraphed. Melee champions can also abuse these facts to farm relatively safely against him.

For mid lane, his ratios are fairly low and it's risky for him to try and burst a target with his full combo if he builds damage because two of his abilities require he be right on a target.

I'm not sure how he works in the jungle at the moment. I'd imagine that his clear has been hampered since the jungle items now give mana regeneration over time instead of damage, since he uses abilities to quickly clear jungle camps. He has very strong ganks if he can lane his Q or E, and his ultimate can knock enemies away from their tower and towards your team after 6. Mostly ward up and run if you see him, since he can't really use his gap-closer to catch you without losing the damage if he's too far away.

Later in the game, Gragas's damage falls off and he becomes a CC tank, focusing on disrupting the enemy team as opposed to dealing damage. In most fights, Gragas can't really wait for his Q to charge since people can easily avoid it or walk off of it, so he needs to use it quickly for the slow and damage to be applied. In addition, at this point he won't really hurt tanks, so they can easily body-block their allies without too much issue from Gragas. His ultimate is still very dangerous and has to be respected, though.

Gragas can have issues against mobile champions because his damage relies on landing telegraphed abilities. Yasuo would probably be a good pick since he can block Q and R with windwall and kite Gragas around though minions. Gnar is durable enough to survive against Gragas, has the range and MS boost to keep away from Gragas, and his E to dodge anything important. Fizz can be considered a skill matchup, but his E and Q can be used to negate a lot of Gragas's damage.

Well, that's my opinion anyways. In practice, it really depends on the skill of the players involved. Hope this helps you.

Done251 votes

Probably the fact that his W is frikken awful in terms of AP scaling and in the power of his damage reduction. His E can also leave him in a really bad spot if his target blinks out of the way and he misses out on the -3 cooldown.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

Probably the fact that his W is frikken awful in terms of AP scaling

Wait, doesn't this literally apply to all % damage abilities though?

From my observation, % damage scales poorly, but in return they automatically scale off the enemy's hp to make up for it.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Wait, doesn't this literally apply to all % damage abilities though?

From my observation, % damage scales poorly, but in return they automatically scale off the enemy's hp to make up for it.

His W's AP scaling is a flat 0.3, which is PATHETIC.

Duke Anax1 votes

But he has a good base, he get's good damage from penetration without AP.

Laose he is a fighter first, mage second, he is supposed to use those auto attacks as well.

5G8Nri0B541 votes

I know that a 0.3AP ratio is pathetic but...doesn't it also come with a hefty % max health damage?

Done251 votes

{quoted}

I know that a 0.3AP ratio is pathetic but...doesn't it also come with a hefty % max health damage?

Gragas is a single target 12%+0.3 AP.

Sejuani's doels 12% (+ 3% per 100 AP) of target's maximum health in an AoE(!), then continues to deal ADDITIONAL damage for 4 seconds around her.

UndeZyrablee1 votes

I have played Gragas twice, once as mid and once as support. There is no way to argue this: His Q is one of the easiest to dodge in the game. The enemy has to be running away from your team, with both sides closing in, and no boots for you to hit an offensive q. Why? The travel time is slow and the range seems slightly too low. I thought it would be just like Lux E. I was wrong. As the other person said, E often puts you into bad spots, and it cant go over walls like many people's gap closers. The damage reduction is pretty good, but it goes away after a single attack, so all you can do is run around like a drunken idiot. The R is hands down his best attack, and is amazingly good, but I can't play a character that only has one good power.

Edit: His passive is ok. Not the best or the worst, so I didnt mention it.

Done251 votes

Also, Gragas is a Tank. This does nothing to help him stand out against the likes of Leona or Sequani who are both better at it.

Don't belive me? Lets look more closely at his kit. Passive -heals him. Q - A skill shot that is more accurate at close range. AoE damage +slow. W - A low cool down melee range spell that gives him %damage reduction. Deals hp% damage so is best used against high HP targets like bruisers and tanks, and not.squishy mages/marksmen. E - short ranged dash that deals AoE and stuns. R - better when in close range, AoE damage and knock back.

Duke Anax1 votes

Gragas is a Fighter, not a Tank, he has less defense, but does more damage.

Done251 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WBO3IFAu,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-28T11:10:21.691+0000)

But he has a good base, he get's good damage from penetration without AP.

Laose he is a fighter first, mage second, he is supposed to use those auto attacks as well.

Gragas is not auto attack dependent. He has no steroids and nothing in his kit rewards building attack speed. Heck, if anything, the long channel on his W PUNISHES buying attack speed.

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WBO3IFAu,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2014-12-28T11:14:58.850+0000)

Gragas is a Fighter, not a Tank, he has less defense, but does more damage.

Do you really think he deals more damage than Udyr, or even J4? How about Vi? All of these champs are rewarded for building AD and are given free attack speed in their kits.

Duke Anax1 votes

Udyr and J4 are Tanks and Fighters. They get all the defense from being a tank, so they get more attack for the fighter role.

VI is a Fighter and Assasin, she is all attack, with barely any defense aside from her stats.

Gragas is a Fighter and Mage. As a mage he get's no defense, but as a fighter he needs some, so he get's a bit less attack. However as a mage he has more ranged damage and zone control than any of the three.

Done251 votes

[{quoted}](name=Duke Anax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WBO3IFAu,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-29T04:32:18.075+0000)

Udyr and J4 are Tanks and Fighters. They get all the defense from being a tank, so they get more attack for the fighter role.

VI is a Fighter and Assasin, she is all attack, with barely any defense aside from her stats.

Gragas is a Fighter and Mage. As a mage he get's no defense, but as a fighter he needs some, so he get's a bit less attack. However as a mage he has more ranged damage and zone control than any of the three.

Udyr, J4, and Vi are all PRIMARILY Fighters. It's the core basis of their gameplay. (Get in close, then slap things to death via AD powered auto attacks.) J4 builds AD for his Dragon Strike and his bonus attack speed form Demacian Standard. Udyr's Tiger Stance GREATLY benefits from AD due to additional scaling and a massive possibly perma attack speed boost. Vi gets additional attack speed for landing three blows on a single target, and all of her abilities have AD scaling.

Gragas is a tank. Tanks scale off of AP and rely 90% of the time on their abilities to deal damage. Cho'gath knocks people into the air, roars at them, then starts shooting off spikes that trigger every time he attacks. Singed runs around spewing poison everywhere, he might go an entire team fight without physically attacking even once. Gragas throws barrels and has to channel his W, thus ruining the benefit of buying any form of attack speed on him.

Here is a REALLY easy check for Fighter Vs Tank

Which bothers them more, blind or silence? Fighters hate blind, and Tanks hate silence.

Udyr can stance swap as much as he likes, but if he's blinded he wont do much of anything.

If Gragas gets silenced mid swig of his W or when he's getting ready to pop a barrel, he's going to be a very unhappy drunk.

5G8Nri0B543 votes

Ironically Gragas has something that tanks seriously need in the current meta.

A method of damage reduction that isn't screwed over by a single penetration item or Morrelonomicon/Ignite.

Duke Anax1 votes

Fighters are also supposed to ahve some defense, and his is rather short, more suited for a fighter than a tank.

TheFatFreak1 votes

2.5 sec 18% reduc on a 4 sec cd. so almost 20% reduc over 50% of the time not so short

Teridax681 votes

Gragas 's abilities are all heavily telegraphed, and in order to make the most of his Q he needs to telegraph it for even longer. He's great at getting into fights, but not so good at getting out of them, as his dash can be blocked by any enemy unit. All of his abilities, and especially his combo (charge Q, charge W, ult target then E into the barrel before blowing it up and attacking) are heavily dependent on the enemy's positioning: if your target walks just a few units in the wrong direction, your ult could knock them to a completely different location, and you'd miss most of your other abilities. He's designed to mess up enemy positioning and gum up enemy movement, but he himself suffers a lot if his opponent repositions in reaction to him.

Duke Anax1 votes

Gragas hit's hard, but he is kinda slow paced. Once he get's you he is good at taking you down to his level and keeping you down.

But if you get past that you can strike back.

Zamiake1 votes

fed bursters

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