Lets talk about tanks

InfinitexMortal·Nov 18, 2017·3 votes·487 views

Why exactly can tanks be so impossibly hard to kill (like they are supposed to be) and yet do the most damage in game? I'd love to know from a balance perspective why the most damage output is coming from the guy building tank + items like and and not from people building straight crit ect.

Examples: All of these have very very high dmg if not one of the highest dmg outputs on their team even though the majority of their build is tank.

Whatever happened to unkillable tanks that were just cc monsters. Why do they have to also be one of the biggest outputs of damage on their team?

17 Comments

DurzakaNov 18, 20175 votes

BC and FM are not tank items. They are bruiser items.

Just like you only listed 3 tanks (one of them a support that isnt out damaging anyone anymore).

InfinitexMortalNov 18, 20171 votes

Honestly I do not care what you would classify as a tank or a bruiser. Both are just as tanky and do the same amount of dmg output. Thats like trying to say ezreal isnt an adc since he doesnt build full crit. And also that stupid "they arent tanks they are bruisers" argument does nothing but avoid the question.

DurzakaNov 18, 20173 votes

If you think that a tank like Malphite does anywhere near the damage of a bruiser like Nasus or Darius, you are out of your damn mind.

InfinitexMortalNov 19, 20171 votes

Ok then you see for yourself. Go with items: item 3025 item 3110 item 3003 And Runes: Resolve: Aftershock, font of life, conditioning, overgrowth. Sorcery: transcendense, gathering storm.

See how much dmg you do

DurzakaNov 19, 20171 votes

Yes, because that is absolutely a viable Malphite build.

InfinitexMortalNov 19, 20171 votes

anything is viable till plat 3 XD

DurzakaNov 19, 20171 votes

Guess AD Ahri is OP and should be nerfed, right?

You dont balance around Bronze and Silver.

InfinitexMortalNov 19, 20171 votes

Nope that's only the majority of the community. Why balance around them when you can balance to make the LCS faster and more flashy with them banning the same 10 champs every game and only using a pool of about 20 champs. Way better.

DurzakaNov 19, 20171 votes

It doesnt matter if its the majority of the community.

If anything is viable as you seem to stupidly think, then nothing needs to be nerfed, because everything works.

because some dude made a drastic extreme video does not make something viable. it makes it the exact opposite, a gimmick.

EndlessSorcererNov 19, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Ok then you see for yourself. Go with items: And Runes: Resolve: Aftershock, font of life, conditioning, overgrowth. Sorcery: transcendense, gathering storm.

See how much dmg you do

Yes, yes. We saw Foxdrop's video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLPCpXgAHGQ&t=0s

Clearly a well-balanced build which wouldn't be horribly punished by anyone capable of building magic damage or MR.

Iota ThetaNov 19, 20171 votes

That is an absolutely terrible Malphite build. Why? No Magic Resist, so mages will blow him up, and no health, so his armor isn’t worth nearly as much. I dare you to try that setup yourself

InfinitexMortalNov 19, 20171 votes

Lmao yes its bad i was just saying he can do tons of dmg with it. In an actual game youd have to go more like item 3047 item 3068 item 3025 item 3001 item 3075 item 3143 You will still have a very high dmg output and it is viable. The other one was just dmg scaling bs

AlienPrimateNov 19, 20171 votes

That is a stupid build. Armor and MR get less effective as you get more of it. It is very rarely worth having over 300 of either resistance. 300 gives you 75% damage reduction. Another whole frozen heart on top of that will give you a lousy 5% more damage reduction. You could instead add 25% to your health pool and gain 25% effective HP instead of 5% against only physical damage.

Iota ThetaNov 19, 20174 votes

3 not tanks. Juggernauts focus on dealing damage while sacrificing other things, like Nasus and Yorick lack the teamfight power of a true tank. If a champs kit is focusing on dealing damage, like Urgot, Yorick, and Nasus (All juggernauts, subclass of the fighter class), then of course they’ll compete for highest damage dealt.

Malphite and Ornn deal primarily in AoE damage, which allways fluffs numbers. Compare, say 1,500 damage from Malphite in a fight, but 1,000 from Syndra. Malphite will have hit multiple targets with all but his Q, and so his total damage dealt is reflective of that, but he might not get any actual kills, because that’s only an average of 300 damage per enemy (if hitting all 5). Syndra will hit 1,000 on a single target.

In Ornn’s case, all his damage also comes from his W, which Riot made deal 20% target max HP damage spread across all 5 ticks (4% per tick). He’s locked into a single direction, so it can be evaded. But if it hits multiple targets, hos total damage will be similar to Malphite’s.

Tahm Kench is primarily a support tank, and he does deal less damage unless he gets 3 stacks on you and you stand there letting him auto you.

If you want people to take this argument seriously, stop using Juggernauts, and show some actual numbers, because Ornn, Tahm, and Malphite are still a good chunk of the way down when looking at damage dealt.

InfinitexMortalNov 19, 20171 votes

See this was the explanation i was looking for. My main problem out of all of them is Urgot as no matter who is top they seem to always lose to him and he gets to the point he can 1 v 3 with ease. I find that champ to be very toxic.

InfernapeNov 18, 20173 votes

Urgot, Nasus and Yorick are not tanks. They belong to the fighter class of champions. They are juggernauts, they're supposed to be relatively tanky (not as tanky as a primary tank like Shen or Nautilus), while still being a damage threat.

Tahm Kench's damage is mostly in his W and he doesn't really out damage anyone nowadays.

Ornn's damage is mostly %HP based and is AoE which can actually skew damage numbers.

Malphite's damage is mostly in his ult and W (with enough armour). It's high base damage (which kinda works because it's supposed to be a hard hitting, high impact ability).

AlienPrimateNov 19, 20171 votes

Something that everyone forgets when they bring up this discussion is that tanks and fighters are almost always fighting other tanks and fighters in top lane sitting there beating on each other all game just to regenerate back up and do it again. An assassin vs mage lane is sit back and farm then go in when the enemy is at 3/4 hp doing 800 damage and their opponent is dead for 30 seconds in which time they do no damage. In top lane, you trade to do 300 damage, heal 100 over 10 seconds then do it again. When you finally kill your opponent, you did 5k damage instead of the 800 it takes a mage and assassin to kill each other.