If you're trying to weaken Lee's early game why are you hitting his already super weak late game?

I GANK LANES··1 votes·1,261 views

Lee's a strong early game champ with dominance in the jungle with his versatility due to his ganking potential, relatively strong clear, and ability to counter jungle. Personally, I feel the nerfs are unwarranted. He has an obvious power curve, being strong (but not overly oppressive if the enemy jungler knows what they're doing against him) in the early game, still strong in the mid game if he clears healthy and is active with ganking, but CLEARLY falls off EXTREMELY hard late game.

I personally probably have over 500 games with Lee since I started playing him in S5. Since I've started playing this champion, he never has, and still doesn't, have a 50% win rate. The amount of time needed to put into this champion to be even remotely effective is ridiculous. Anyone saying that Lee doesn't take skill are not knowledgeable about the champ as a whole.

Like I said earlier, Lee Sin has a CLEAR power curve. Strong early game, strong mid game (if he gets a considerable amount of gold, people don't realize that if he doesn't snowball a bit, he falls off a lot earlier than most people think), and extremely weak late game.

With this nerf, his late game is even weaker than it was before, and once again you hit his early game power; that's all the Lee has. I mean now, what is this champ? You guys said you wanted to focus on that curve, strong early, weak late. Now he's just a shadow of his former self; exacerbating his weaknesses at ALL stages of the game.

E - Tempest THE BLIND MONK: No longer reveals invisible targets. ONLY YOU: Now only reveals targets damaged by Tempest (no longer reveals nearby allies of damaged targets)

Why would you decide to hit his niche of being blind and revealing enemy targets with his abilities? I really don't understand the E nerf at all, ESPECIALLY due to the other nerf that you gave his E which now only reveals targets to him. Why take away his ability to see invisible targets if literally he's the only one that will be able to see them? Makes no sense.

R- Dragon's Rage DAMAGE200/400/600 ⇒ 150/300/450

People don't realize how crucial Lee's early game power is. If he doesn't have his early game, then is literally a garbage champion with absolutely no value. Late game, he lacks the beefiness to be a tank with nothing but a shield, the utility to be a support other than a decaying slow, and the damage to be a carry, which falls off hard because of his inclination to build just 1-2 damage items and the rest tank, because if not he would blow up instantly. Not only do you hit his early game power with his ultimate, you also take 150 damage off his 3rd rank ult??

Why? This champion is already extremely weak late game, and when people say, "blah blah people just say Lee's weak, that's only if you don't know how to play him", and, "just because he falls off doesn't mean he's weak, it just means that he's weaker than his early game," is either naively mistaken or blatantly lying because they don't like Lee Sin.

I can't think of any other jungle champion that is weaker than Lee Sin come late game, and you guys decide to hit his ultimate at rank 3; I do not understand this decision. Lee is not freelo in the LEAST, and if you guys insist on nerfing his ultimate then you should shift power into another part of his kit; I suggest by attempting to give him more of an identity in the late game. What does a Lee even do come late game other than be an ult/shield bot?

If he's losing damage, fine. You guys are reiterating his weak damage come late game; give him AS slow back. NOT at the numbers that they were (20%/30%/40%/50%/60%). Giving this back to him would add a lot of diversity back into his kit as well as his gameplay. Players would have to decide whether to max W or E after Q, weighing out the pro's and con's of both, which could also depend on the Lee's team as well as the enemies, and it would give him an actual identity in the late game.

Instead of a shield/ult both with pitiful damage (now even more pitiful since the nerf), he could provide some real utility to his team with the AS slow back on his E. His power curve would still be intact; strong early, relatively strong mid game (depending on how his early game went), and weak late game. His damage wouldn't be there, especially now, but it gives Lee a real reason to dive into the enemy team come late game for a team fight. Right now, with no AOE damage except tempest/cripple, all Lee can do is either kick a tank into a carry, or kick a carry, and hope for the best.

I'm not sure what numbers I would put on the AS slow, but they would definitely be lower than the ones they once were.

If you got this far, I appreciate you taking your time to read my post. I know Lee Sin is not a well like champ, but he is the reason I continue to play League. The amount of mechanical knowledge, game knowledge, micro and macro management, and his ability to impact his whole team in different ways is why I love this champion.

Negative comments, positive comments, ideas, tips, add--ons, are ALL appreciated. Thanks guys

LeeSin

4 Comments

thinking man2 votes

super weak late game

how many levels of irony are we on right now

SwaggyMcGhee4202 votes

What do you mean? Every single other meta jungler is wayyyyy more useful late game

I GANK LANES1 votes

What's ironic? Tell me 1 jungler that's weaker than Lee Sin late game

Dark Nephthys1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nerf my Q,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vfi9HEaH,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-01-13T03:10:19.503+0000)

What's ironic? Tell me 1 jungler that's weaker than Lee Sin late game

Sure when the game goes on he isn't as useful as he was during the early game but he isn't completely useless as people are trying to imply. The fact that he has the insec means he'll still has some use in the team especially when built tank, or just build full AD and play Lee sin as an assassin that can easily 1 shot a Carry. His R>Q>Q used to do 940 + 380% Bonus AD and if Lee flashes infront of you and kicks you into a Q there was nothing you can do but hope to live it...so they reduced his Ultimates damage...though personally I feel they should of nerfed his Q.

As for you saying 1 jungler that is weaker then him late game... (Some of these assumes you are also basing this on their drop of win rate over time) Aatrox Nidalee Pantheon then they'res a few people played jungle that also drop a bit over time though not entirely super "weak" in the late game Diana Elise

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