Can Mages get their own version of an Edge of Night?

Memeguel420·Oct 20, 2016·13 votes·1,336 views

Ad champs are going to get a third item that gives them damage and magic resist in addition to . I know mages already have but the fact that assassins are getting an item that gives them a spell shield with a cooldown of 30 seconds, magic resist, and Attack damage seems like Ap champs should either get one of those items themselves. Or maybe a buff to giving it 45% penetration like because magic resist is more accessible to AD champs?

44 Comments

LXIIOct 20, 20168 votes

Last Whisper is BONUS Armor Pen, not Armor Pen. Void staff is infinitely better in that regard, especially when you consider that most AD champs don't have an MR stat growth.

Memeguel420Oct 20, 20163 votes

Can you please explain what you mean by Bonus? I'm not being rude I legitimately don't know what you mean by that?

DryditchOct 20, 20164 votes

Each champion has base values for HP, AD, AP, MR, Armor, and AtkSpd, plus some other stuff.

Bonus ARPen affects only the armor gained from item purchases, while flat ARPen or MRPen (Void Staff) works against all Armor/MR.

Memeguel420Oct 20, 20161 votes

Ohhhh ok thank you for clearing that up for me.

DryditchOct 20, 20161 votes

No problem. Definitely check items for whether they say bonus or total when you're theorycrafting builds.

TalisidOct 20, 20166 votes

I think the reason why Edge of the Night is being added is that most assassins don't really benefit that much from Lifesteal or CDR, so Edge of the Night is the assassin MR item, maw is being re-tooled for bruisers with CDR instead of armor pen and AD carries build Mercurial.

That said, the lack of variety in defensive AP items is a concern, hell players who main AP assassins like Fizz, Akali, Leblanc are kind of getting screwed by this update as well.

Memeguel420Oct 20, 20161 votes

Almost all AP melee champs are screwed over. Not only do they have to get into melee distance to land spells which is already risky but now assassins can also shield themselves from those!

Spicy RiceOct 20, 20161 votes

If im not mistaken, all melee ap champs are assassins, fighters, or tanks

Wolftastic33Oct 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think the reason why Edge of the Night is being added is that most assassins don't really benefit that much from Lifesteal or CDR, so Edge of the Night is the assassin MR item, maw is being re-tooled for bruisers with CDR instead of armor pen and AD carries build Mercurial.

That said, the lack of variety in defensive AP items is a concern, hell players who main AP assassins like Fizz, Akali, Leblanc are kind of getting screwed by this update as well.

Death's dance works with any physical damage, as well as reducing any burst with 15%, allowing someone to heal those 15% back up with its healing within three seconds.

Akali is SO HOTOct 20, 20165 votes

Edge of Night looks pretty overtuned at the moment, but Mages most certainly do not need an item like that. It would be so incredibly broken lol. I know people would absolutely love seeing Akali, Diana, and Fizz building that item.

Memeguel420Oct 20, 20162 votes

I agree with you on the fact that mages shouldn't get an item with a spell shield, however, I think it's necessary for them to at least get an item with some armor because AD champs right now have a clear advantage. Especially with mages like fizz who would be even harder to catch with a spell shield.

Duke AnaxOct 20, 20161 votes

The thing is, SOME armor isn't gonna cut it anymore, with the amount of armor pen and armor reduction available currently you need at least 300, because 200 will be gone. And even if you have enough armor, Drakthar is still doing true damage depending on pen.

Zero Skill TankOct 20, 20169 votes

I know people would absolutely love seeing Akali, Diana, and Fizz building that item.

How would be any different than Zed, Kha and Talon building it? Topped with Scimitar in case someone somehow landed any CC on them.

ForgiveColourOct 21, 20164 votes

MAGE MAINS LUL

The DeckownerOct 20, 20165 votes

You know what will happen if this item is introduced?

AP assassins will abuse the shit out of it, just pike how protobelt was abused.

Bladerunner7777Oct 20, 20165 votes

This is the most flawed logic I have seen in a while

I'm thankful that the boards have little to no jurisdiction over gameplay balance

Kingdom CornOct 20, 20162 votes

lmao ikr!

LiofaOct 20, 20163 votes

Riot's response to Kennen abusing protobelt is to nerf protobelt then buff every ad mid laner.

That's seriously it.

Memeguel420Oct 20, 20161 votes

If they're gonna nerf the protobelt active Riot should at least buff the stats of it a little more. Maybe giving 400 hp or 80 AP.

Handy Sandy Oct 20, 20163 votes

Don't mages already have item 3040

Memeguel420Oct 20, 20168 votes

Yeah but getting item 3070 is extremely situational and only a couple of mages get it. You wouldn't get on a mage who has really long ability cooldowns because it would take forever to upgrade it to item 3048 . You also wouldn't get it if you need to do some more damage early game. You also wouldn't get it if you were an AP champ like Vlad, Rumble, and Katarina. It's really situational while Edge of Night would work on ADC's and Assasins in almost any matchup.

KalarepaOct 20, 20162 votes

Don't ADCs already have item 3072 ?

HyperiönOct 20, 20163 votes

Why would you compare Void Staff to LDR? Void staff ignores 35% of ALL magic resist, while LDR is 45% of BONUS Armor.

Mages can get abyssal Too. And Boots that give Magic Pen, and an Item that gives Magic Pen.

Pls.

Dominick DestineOct 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Why would you compare Void Staff to LDR? Void staff ignores 35% of ALL magic resist, while LDR is 45% of BONUS Armor.

LDR has 15% + bonus damage to higher health targets.

It's also a greater raw penetration item than Void Staff by a significant margin, ignoring hundreds of armor whereas Void Staff rarely reaches that amount even at the best of times. Basically Void Staff is garbo in comparison.

Phoenix Kotori Oct 21, 20161 votes

Except item 3036 is just 50 AD vs squishies who don't build HP or armor meanwhile item 3135 works against everything and everyone regardless of build meaning it dramatically increases the damage squishies take.

HyperiönOct 23, 20161 votes

If you do the math, using old Last whisper, which is 35% pen to all armor, Old Last whisper did about 10% more damage than the current LDR.

AstôlfoOct 20, 20162 votes

Edge of Night just shouldn't exist. Rather than giving AD EoN and/or giving AP an equivalent. It's a terribly designed item.

GULAG 4 UOct 20, 20161 votes

And why?

Ulquiorra995Oct 21, 20161 votes

Because it royally fucks over anyone with delayed and/or telegraphed abilities. Most obvious example being Karthus as he doesn't have an ultimate against AD champions anymore - but he at least has his other spells for close range fights. Meanwhile, Vi for example will never be able to initiate on an ADC again if this item goes through, thus not being able to do her job at all. And the list goes on.

GULAG 4 UOct 21, 20162 votes

You do realize you cannot use its active during combat and it has a 1.5 channel time?

Ulquiorra995Oct 21, 20161 votes

Yes, I do. But what I said still stands. Engages like Vi and Nautilus' ultimates often signal the start of the fight and have a delay long enough for the item to make them null and void. Same stands for long-range mages like Karthus and Ziggs as their ultimates are most often used either to soften enemies before the fight or pick up stragglers after. Note the example of old Malzahar. While statistically he was very strong he wasn't picked often in high tier play regardless because of his ultimate being negated by a single item. We will have that all over again just with different champions.

GULAG 4 UOct 21, 20161 votes

When vi targets you you are in combat and it doesn't take 1.5 seconds for vi to hit your face to what I know.

Kingdom CornOct 20, 20162 votes

Oh so if assassins get an item then mages should get it too? I want an ad proto fucking belt and an ad rod of fucking ages cause that is not broken. And btw there is not much magic pen items because AP is really easy to get. The max ad you can get from an item is 75. item 3072 Ap champions have fucking item 3089 That gives 168 AP!!!!!! if you add the35% with the 120 ap that it gives its 168... That is more than double the ad item.

PhelasOct 21, 20162 votes

To be fair, one AD is worth more than one AP.

WinTheWarOnPantsOct 20, 20161 votes

i would HIGHLY prefer that it just does't get put into the game. AD champs already have a huge advantage item wise against AP. people have been complaining about the discrepancy between item 3156 item 3139 item 3091 vs item 3157 for awhile now. so the fact that riot in any way thought it was anything other than a horrible idea to ANOTHER mr ad item is beyond me... let alone one with a freaking crazy active like this one i mean holy shit can you imagine. Nocturne or Sivir with item 3102 AND edge of knight... or dear god summoner 1 ... how many fuking spell shields and cc cleanse does riot think AD champs need....

KaiokoOct 20, 20161 votes

Mages don't need it but Edge of Night needs to be nerfed harshly.

I mean you could see the positives though - remember how OP junglers were with Feral Flare and how harshly Shyv, Warwick and Yi got nerfed? Same thing will happen with assassins and then they'll nerf the item while never buffing the assassins back up. The assassin rework will bring them to the ground I say good riddance.

PhelasOct 21, 20161 votes

You mean, they stay where they are at the moment?