AD mains get 3 anti-AP options: 
all of which feel great to build and have unique strengths. How about we stop the decline in AP itemization by adding a new anti-burst AD item along the lines of ?
HazyCloud713 votesYeah, hexdrinker totally dicks on seekers. The active on Zhonyas is amazing don't get me wrong, but as an anti-AD item it leaves a lot be desired.
I'm getting an item that gives a low amount of AP while fighters/adcs/assassins get MR items that provide a high amount of AD. Doesn't make much sense.
Sraeg20136 votesNot only that, but Hexdrinker's passive also ends up increasing their HP pool by at least 30%, which also scales twice with MR.
RavenMagus2 votesWhile Zhonyas active is amazing, there is also a fair amount of counterplay to it. You can use it at the wrong time, you can be killed while CC'd, you can get hit by skillshots immediately after, and it's completely worthless if certain enemy champs are anywhere nearby at all (Caitlyn).
Meanwhile, a giant health shield from Maw always activates when it's ready and never has any downsides.
Grimspeake8 votesRylais liandries and zonyas turns mages into ap bruisers with lots of waveclear
koreansmurf875134 votesu r a special kind of dumb
health =/= brusier
IcyPepper21 votesEr, I thought health was bruisers' main defensive stat.
But having some health on your items doesn't necessarily make you a bruiser, though...
koreansmurf87512 votesA bruiser doesn't technically have a stat it's more of a style
50000000000000009 votesRiot has explained several times about "stat binding." Some classes want to buy certain stats to be effective. The most obvious examples would be ADCs and their focus on AD, attack speed, and crit chance.
But there are also less obvious ones like bruisers buying HP (
). Or enchanters buying mana regen over mana (
and 
upgrades), whereas mages get mana over mana regen (
).
BobaFlautist15 votesExcept that pigeonholing is what has made mage utilization and tank itemization much less dynamic than it used to be, making shop visits deeply unsatisfying.
50000000000000002 votesMYMU mostly fixed that, no? Tank itemization is okay but not great, I guess. Diver class update and vanguard class update will probably help solve that, though.
Votable Jester10 votesMYMU only gave us the hextech items, and took away mana regen as an option for mages.
It's also generally not worth it to get more than one of the hextech items because they share cooldowns. The hextech items are also only really useful for short-mid range mages, meaning that long ranged mages strictly lost build options.
No, the MYMU did not make mage builds more dynamic imo.
Bushy Þussy5 votes[{quoted}](name=Votable Jester,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VZUjaeFE,comment-id=00070001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-01T23:08:19.674+0000)
MYMU only gave us the hextech items, and took away mana regen as an option for mages.
It's also generally not worth it to get more than one of the hextech items because they share cooldowns. The hextech items are also only really useful for short-mid range mages, meaning that long ranged mages strictly lost build options.
No, the MYMU did not make mage builds more dynamic imo.
Mage builds became more dynamic, period.
The ones that could not utilize the new items did not all of a sudden "strictly lose build options" because they continued to build as they did before the update. Xerath did not suddenly stop building Morello's because he couldn't abuse Protobelt like Annie or use the ice one.
Votable Jester4 votesHe didn't stop building Morello, but he did lose Athene's as an option. Even if at times Athene's was worse than Morello, it was still an option.
So yes, Xerath did "stricly lose build options," and if you say otherwise, you're either lying or referring to far from optimal build options.
Elikain1 votesWhen did Xerath build Athene's, ever? Or do you mean the weird place where either Morello's or Athene's were delivering the same stats and the one getting bought the most is the one who was the most efficient?
Riot split these two items apart for that reason. Xerath does not build Athene's as he has no shields. Orianna on the other hand, can utilize it's effect quite nicely and if it comes to supporting her team a bit, this option is more than viable for her, Karma, Morgana and a few others looking for a way to translate their base damage into extra healing for the healed or shielded teammates.
Theorchero1 votesWhen did Xerath build Athene's, ever? Or do you mean the weird place where either Morello's or Athene's were delivering the same stats and the one getting bought the most is the one who was the most efficient?
Riot split these two items apart for that reason. Xerath does not build Athene's as he has no shields. Orianna on the other hand, can utilize it's effect quite nicely and if it comes to supporting her team a bit, this option is more than viable for her, Karma, Morgana and a few others looking for a way to translate their base damage into extra healing for the healed or shielded teammates.
So you mean... season 5 and earlier?
Elikain1 votesThe point of items is not that one replaces the other. The point is that every item has room in the game and is built according to what you're up against in any given game. The very fact that the meta is so rooted into the game and everyone follows it blindly is the reason why so many players are so out of touch.
Votable Jester1 votesBoth give you the same stats except that Shiv gives you a bit of wave control and can crit with double magic damage, making your attacks have mixed damage.
RFC gives you a longer range, stronger single shot magic damage (can't crit) and is better for sieging. The only thing i don't understand is why Runaan's (the item specifically designed for multishots and waveclear) has slightly better stats with the same price. It's pretty much an auto purchase for a lot of champions.
Phantom Dancer is another one of these items with slightly better stats, cheaper by 50 gold than the rest and focuses on 1v1 fights between champions (dueling item). So you see, every item has a clear purpose and usage cases. If you're strictly focusing on AD, crit and AS, stacking 2 of these is probably a must + IE for 80% crit chance.
So then rather than effectively deleting one of the mage items because it provided similar stats to another one, why not give them unique passives/actives to differentiate their purposes similar to the Zeal items?
And before you say "Athene's is now the support-ish one," each of those Zeal items (besides Phantom Dancer I suppose) is a variant on aggressive playstyles.
Elikain1 votesThere are no AD supports but there are support mages. So my guess is that they repurposed Athene's for specific support mages, sometimes even being viable for mid lane mages that can use it's passive.
I don't really see the reason to delete an item unless it's never being used and it's a trap purchase. Athene's and Morello's suffered from being way too similar and the item that always had better and more efficient stats ended up getting bought most. And they did just that - gave Athene's another unique passive, mana regen was already a stat for supports while Morello's got bumped up in AP and provided flat mana for mages. It's unique effect is already Grevious Wounds.
Votable Jester1 votesBuying Athene's as a mid laner now is basically saying "I forfeit any chance of killing you or anyone else on my own. I am now a second support without a Sightstone."
That was a bit of an exaggeration, but seriously, the loss of AP is detrimental to a mage's mid and late game.
Elikain1 votesYea, you lose some AP but gain MR and the ability to transfer the collected damage in the Athene's and heal allies for the same amount through your heal or a shield. That's the tradeoff. Only champions that have heals and shields and have decent base damage can use it properly and it's also cheaper than the pure AP Morello's.
That's the tradeoff of the item - some AP for utility and MR. You won't win every mid lane with brute force, with any champion. Sometimes, more utility and healing can actually help your team more than you being pure damage on Orianna, for example. It is clear that it's a waste of gold on champions that can't use it's passive at all. It's also very good on Morgana and Lux if you're taking a bit more support-ish approach.
Wolfram Oxford1 votesmana>mana regen
Votable Jester1 votesWhether that is the case or not, it's still a lost option.
Wolfram Oxford1 votesBut in no case would you want mana regen over mana. The simple reason why is because late game when you want to throw out multiple rotations of spells you won't be able to because you are going to be waiting on your mana to regenerate, when you have a larger mana pool this isn't a problem. So I feel like Riot did make some huge buffs to mages by giving them more actual mana, which also increases the strength of tear builds if you are taking the risk, giving mages more defensive options, giving mages a plethora of CDR in their itemization, and making it so they don't need large sums of AP to deal damage. So in reality the AP pool wasn't hit that hard. Yes only one 120 exists, but Deathcap got a %AP increase and there were stronger AP items added in, buffs to items such as Morellonomicon and Rylai's where previously they didn't hold the AP that they used to. Then we take into account keystones that cater directly towards the play style of mages. For mages with DoTs you have DFT and for mages who deal burst damage you have the option of TLD.
Votable Jester1 votesMana regen is superior to flat mana in sieges and when dancing around objectives. You can sort of consider it a counter to raw mana. If you can keep the fight from starting for a while, you'll either put out more poke than them or they'll run too low on mana to be of help in the fight. Either way, this is an instance in which mana regen is superior to raw mana.
Ralanr7 votesBut mages are weak to burst and use their range to help avoid it.
The Ginger Ninga19 votesSo what should AP assassins do? They don't have range.
Zed can build Maw to help him survive a mages burst when he goes in. He can build Edge of Night if he needs to block the first spell. He can build Scimitar if he needs to counter CC. He has the ability to vary his build to his situation.
Diana and Ekko, when he builds AP, have only Zhonyas to build if they want defense and AP. That's it. We simply want more options, for different situations.
Ralanr1 votesThen just build straight defense.
MissMikasa19 votesYeah then have no damage whatsoever to kill anybody with....[slayer-jinx-unamused]
L0ve Is Blue6 votesJust reverting Zhonya to 100AP 45armor would be cute. This way its a way more viable item, it reduces CDR overload everywhere and the more expensive cost lets the assassin actualy have a chance before you rush Zhonya level 6 and then they are useless for the rest of the game.
Helmight5 votesI mean, I think the biggest issue isn't necessarily that AD has more options - it's that AP mages have a pretty terrible second-tier item in Seeker's Armguard. Hexdrinker provides useful stats right off the bat and a killer passive, and QSS helps mitigate burst and block CC, but Seeker's just kinda... exists. To make matters worse, it has to stack up its armor to even provide a baseline of useful stats.
Really, Seeker's Armguard should have some kind of active/passive effect along the lines of QSS or Hexdrinker to help mitigate the problems that mages have against AD. They already get punished pretty hard for rushing Seeker's, since they're not able to afford their mana items as quickly, so having at least a marginally effective item they can sit on for a while would be useful.
Grimspeake4 votesWhich ap champions are zonyas bad on??
Elewd11 votesconsidering it got its stats changed and its cooldown nerfed, its really only "mandatory" if you are against a heavy ad team, or you are an engage mage like lissandra or morgana. otherwise you would get other items and hope you dont get focus'd
NineTailedMystic5 votesThe ones in games where they don't need the active to survive. Zhonya's is garbage in stats.
Demi Alone2 votesdeathcap and thronmail should just build into a super item lol
Durfain17 votes[zombie-brand-facepalm]
The Yetii Rider2 votesMages have range. That's their defense. They also have CC to protect themselves if they get jumped on. They have Flash, which mages almost always use defensively, and they have the shortest lane in the game which means they can usually get under tower with Flash unless they're playing badly.
Mages don't need more defensive power. The amount of defensive power they have already is what necessitates the burst of assassins to be so high in the first place.
YFisfabulousBRUH10 votesADC have range.
The Yetii Rider3 votesThat's ridiculous. ADCs have maybe 600 range on most of their abilities/autos, and they have like a slow or an escape most of the time.
Mages have knock backs, knock ups, stuns, fears, dashes, ProtoBelt. Mages do not need to get nearly as close to the enemy as ADCs. The difference in range between Brand or Syndra and Ashe or Caitlyn is huge.
YFisfabulousBRUH4 votesCaitlyn has the highest range in all the game, and can extend that range with Rapid Firecannon, and has more basic attack range than syndra. Syndra has ridiculous range with her Q E combo, but that is a SPELL ON A COOLDOWN (eta 12 secs at rank 1, to which they are completely vulnerable and open to all-ins) . not to mention they can augment their basic attacks with AD, CRIT, AND LIFESTEAL.
ADCs with:
knockbacks: 
Knock ups: 
Stuns/root : 
Dashes/Teleport : 
Not mentioning fear because its on very few champions like 
[slayer-jinx-wink]
AninLegions7771 votesYou mentioned different champs for different cc. Here's one
Syndra: Slow, Stun, Knockback. Does all 3. Throw in Rylai's and she kites almost as good as a cait with frozen mallet. /HB
YFisfabulousBRUH1 votessigh
: slow , stun, knockup.
: slow, stun, knockback
: slow and knockup/knockback
: snare and knockup
: slow and root
: slow, stun, and fricking zhonyas invuln
that doesnt prove anything. like someone on the boards said, dont try to prove a champion is OP just by listing her strengths.
AninLegions7771 votesThe person I replied to was talking about ADCs and Mages. You brought in Aatrox and Bard which are pointless but the rest helped prove my point.
YFisfabulousBRUH1 votesi brought in aatrox and bard to show you that NOT ONLY MAGES can have the above abilities, and thus their kit isnt a problem
AninLegions7771 votesAgain, this is about ADCs, AD Assassins and Mages. I have no idea why bard and aatrox are there. Support are MEANT to have cc. Just like mages but ADCs and AD Assassins mostly have slows. That's why they need items like Maw and QSS. Do you understand or should I grind it further into baby food?
SirHeavyScrotum1 votesName a mage that Zhonyas is bad on and I will name a mage with the exact same name who Zhonyas is not bad on.
TeCoolMage6 votesScrewed when active is needed: 
Likes other items too much: 
Alright: 
Good: 
Gregor Gysi1 votesZhonyas is not supposed to be an item that is should be built in every single game on every single champion. You just beautifully illustrated how it viable on every AP non-support champion (it's viable on Zilean Mid, Xerath, Ziggs and Lux) but isn't always the best choice. Which is exactly how it should be. It's good on every AP, but not in every situation.
TeCoolMage1 votesactually it should be built every game on some of the champions listed in 'good', like Katarina, Kennen, Fiddlesticks, Lissandra, AP Nunu, Swain and AP Amumu
Xerath and Ziggs have CC that's either delayed or ranged based, and will always die once the active is over, unlike say Brand who has ult to constantly do damage while he's in stasis, and has Q. Zhonya's is a pretty crappy item on them.
In fact I should probably move Nidalee to that section but she has a small dash.
Meanwhile: Maw and Mercurial can always be built, Edge of Night if they don't have low CD poke. Very few games have only physical or only magic damage, so there should always be defensive items for either side (there should be an ADC item that reduces ability damage tbh for enemy AD assassins)
Gregor Gysi1 votesactually it should be built every game on some of the champions listed in 'good', like Katarina, Kennen, Fiddlesticks, Lissandra, AP Nunu, Swain and AP Amumu
Zhonyas is not supposed to be an item that is should be built in every single game on every single champion.
Xerath and Ziggs have CC that's either delayed or ranged based, and will always die once the active is over, unlike say Brand who has ult to constantly do damage while he's in stasis, and has Q. Zhonya's is a pretty crappy item on them.
If they know they are a priority target and the enemy has a fed Zed than they have to buy it. Because the active is just that sweet.
Meanwhile: Maw and Mercurial can always be built, Edge of Night if they don't have low CD poke. Very few games have only physical or only magic damage, so there should always be defensive items for either side (there should be an ADC item that reduces ability damage tbh for enemy AD assassins)
Maw and Mercurial are not always viable, period - but yes, you can always build them. You can also always build Zhonyas, but it's not always viable (not on every single champion atleast).
And what about an AD assassin item that reduces physical damage?
TeCoolMage1 votesMaw and mercurial are always viable against enemy magic damage - Zhonya's is dependent on the active so it doesn't work when the enemy physical damage is from an ADC or from an assassin that doesn't tunnel vision you. In exchange the active also works in situations not involving physical damage but IMO that detracts from the item's health as a situational anti physical damage item.
Yes there should be an anti physical damage item for assassins too. Tanky stats should be more accessible to squishy champions so they're not balanced around one shotting each other and doing sustained damage to tanks.