So why not make a Trinity for Fighters and One of ADCs?

Rebonack··4 votes·630 views

It's painfully obvious Trinity was remade with ADCs in mind to the detriment of Fighters. Riot said that they tried Recurve instead of Zeal, but it didn't 'feel good' because champions that use Trinity 'don't auto-attack enough'. Which seems fishy to me.

Who were two of the biggest poster-child users of Trinity?

Irelia and KogMaw.

And last I checked, they both like auto-attacking a much as possible within the window of their respective W buffs.

So why not just take the best of both worlds and have two Trinity Force type items?

The first would be more akin to the item we all know and love and build out of item 3057 item 3044 item 1043. It would gain a bit more attack speed, attack damage, and some OnHit magic damage but lose the crit chance and the %Movespeed (sads). Most importantly, it also gains the Phantom Hit named passive, which procs when you use Spellblade. If a champion picked up Trinity and Devourer for some reason, the Spellblade version of Phantom Hit would be disabled.

For step two, we remake item 3104 into the Crit/Spellblade item. It now builds from item 3122 item 3086 item 3057 for a fairly solid all-around source of auto-attack enhancing stats. It would, of course, retain its potent bonus AD OnCrit bleed effect. It might be interesting to make Pillager's version of Spellblade scale off some percentage of your total AD rather than base, making it the clear AD scaling version of this item family.

So there you go. Two items instead of one because right now Trinity is attractive on about five champions, which is a real shame.

11 Comments

AyRe CoNteMpT2 votes

dude please. you know how boring it is to have multiple versions of the same item? like rapidfire gun and static shiv are basically the same item and its so boring. runaans is almost the same item aswell and then you got the two different hydras which was fine last season but its really retarded this season.

really just how hard can it be to think up some unique, interesting items instead of giving all items the same stats with little variation?

Lovely Pants2 votes

Having items with different stats is only superficially interesting, until you realize that there is always a best case buy of stats on every champion.

While it may be the case that each champion much prefers choosing certain item specializations, it makes for fewer weird optimization cases which inhibit the ability of the player to choose items for a specific game based on their meaningful unique effects because it might not be worth giving up a few stats. I'd hazard the assumption that it also does make entire classes of champions much easier to balance when the items they share represent a much clearer power curve.

Rebonack2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lovely Pants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VXAE2a9m,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-09T15:58:27.893+0000)

Having items with different stats is only superficially interesting, until you realize that there is always a best case buy of stats on every champion.

To elaborate on this a bit, take a look at Omen, Sunfire, and Plate.

With nearly every patch since Plate was introduced, Riot has been nudging the stats on these three Armor/HP items closer and closer together. This is a good thing. Instead of players just picking the one that is most cost-efficient in raw stats, they're encouraged to pick the one with the unique passive that best fits the situation at hand.

Riot decided to do much the same with Zeal items. It's a good idea.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

no lol. if you are a champion that benefits from mobility, you will get deadmans plate over any of them because its fucking better. among them are tanks, bruisers and assassins and even supports. all of these champions highly benefit from the movementspeed and slow component alot more than from some burn damage or AoE slow.

the only reason someone ever buys sunfire cape is toplane first item on some tanks. nobody gets it second or third or anywhere later in the game. its only FIRST to push lanes. it is its only purpose and only on a few champions and since we have multiple really good items to push (titanic, gauntlet), sunfire is left in the dust.

also since the gameplay of league of legends has evolved, the AoE-burn simply doesnt do so much anymore. people dont "just teamfight" in a clump anymore and fights are much faster than when the game was released. sunfire simply doesnt have the time to deal its damage anymore since MULTIPLE seasons so randuins became more and more popular especially after its big buffs.

now that randuins has been nerfed multiple times, it STILL was more popular until the release of deadmans which, again, is simply a much better item.

if they really want to diversify item choices, they should make all these items have much more diversified stats (like sunfire gives 200 hp and 80 armor or so and the burndamage scales on armor.. just an idea) and randuins be focused alot more on soaking crits because clearly sticking to a target is easier with deadmans.

lets say randuins only gives hp and no armor at all but it reduces damage taken from critical strikes by 30%. it could then be combined with other armor items to be extremely effective against crits but it wouldnt be very effective against everything else. you could buy it as second or third item against a fed yasuo or ADC or tryndamere.

it then would have situations in which it is clearly better than other items so you could buy it for these situations.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

or why dont make individual stats buyable for gold instead of items but you can spend a maximum of 18K gold on stats/effecs/actives.

also there will be always "the best item" for one particular champion to buy. ofcourse you could say "different items for different situations" but that doesnt affect the first 2 or even 3 items very much because these so called "core" items are simply what support the role of the champion best. what makes trinity so good on irelia is not that it buffs her auto attacking with her true damage so super much but that it gives her alot of speed and allows her to Q casterminions (applies on-hit effects) from full hp and melee ones from much higher hp than usual to dash while getting the Q reset immediately aswell as crazy speed from the phage passive.

now if you make items very similar and only change minor things like the static shiv/rapidfire cannon thing, you will have "THE BETTER" item every time since it is better in the more-likely majority of situations and ONLY if you make an item that is VERY SPECIALIZED on one specific thing you want to do (hold towers/waveclear, splitpush, assassinate squishies, duel bruisers, kill tanks etc) only then you can really have an item diversity that allows you to adapt to situations.

for example, zephyr was a very good item because it was excellent for splitpushing on some champions and even tho it wasnt bought very often, it fulfilled its purpose. it couldve been tweaked to be even better for splitpushing and even weaker for fighting, for example by altering its buildpath into recurve bow + phage so that its final form doesnt have the CDR anymore but gains the phage passive instead. stuff like that.

also there could be an item that absorbs a flat amount of damage from every source of magic damage taken so you can effectively reduce damage from dots and magic DPS. there could be many different items with cool effects that are very situational but only this way you can really create item diversity. there could be items that have extremely strong raw stats or items that have almost no raw stats but very strong effects. there could be items with spammable effects that have extremely low cooldown.

this could be a much more interesting game but instead we have every heavy AD item cost the same and give almost the same, we have static shiv and static shiv 2.0, we have two versions of lastwhisper that both suck. everything gets standardised so that there is always "the best build".

for example, the best build on shyvana jungle is devourer trinity deadmans plate. only if they are ridiculously full AP like brand support, fiddle jungle, lux mid and lissandra top you would swap deadmans for spiritvisage but in every regular game you would absolutely get these three items and then adapt.

as a jungler, you are allready somewhat forced into buying a jungle item and then you only got to choose from 4 different ones of which you mostly cant even use half. it would be really cool if there were like 10 different jungle items so you could really ADAPT situationally but no, they want every champ to buy the same jungle item every game and the only variation some fighters have is to get cinderhulk instead. well AT LEAST THAT.

seriously, riots item philosophy is shit. plain shit.

BBQ PORO TENDIES1 votes

dude L2P

Lovely Pants1 votes

Just a couple of thoughts. I'm not really pretending to understand the balance intentions of either your proposal or Riot with Trinity Force at the moment, since I haven't put much research behind what it does.

-I don't think I'd like for them to balance Trinity Force around the poster-children who synergize most with it so much as a more general population of users who might rely on it as part of their power curve, as much as I loved abusing Trinity Force koggles myself.

-That said, I would certainly rather further separate the item overlap of ADCs and bruisers for the sake of sanity when Riot tries to untangle the giant web they've created with each update. Goddamit it, Ezreal and Corki.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

In regards to the new spellblade item, I feel like giving it Zeal in its recipe doesn't make a lot of sense.

On ADC builds that currently use Trinity Force, you use it as a core damage item in the same way you use Essence Reaver or Infinity Edge as a core damage item rather than a supplemental damage item like Phantom Dancer, Statikk Shiv, and other similar items. The Zeal part of the recipe makes it seem too much like an item that supplements your current damage rather than being your core damage item.

I would personally make it something like this:

Build: BF Sword + Sheen + Cloak of Agility

Gives: Attack Damage Cooldown Reduction Critical Strike Chance Mana

And this iteration of the spellblade passive:

After casting an ability, the next basic attack deals bonus physical damage equal to 100% total Attack Damage on-hit (1.5 second cooldown). This bonus damage can critically strike.

This way, we have a sheen item that directly caters to ADC's, and then we can get a different iteration of Trinity Force that caters better to bruisers.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

In regards to the new spellblade item, I feel like giving it Zeal in its recipe doesn't make a lot of sense.

On ADC builds that currently use Trinity Force, you use it as a core damage item in the same way you use Essence Reaver or Infinity Edge as a core damage item rather than a supplemental damage item like Phantom Dancer, Statikk Shiv, and other similar items. The Zeal part of the recipe makes it seem too much like an item that supplements your current damage rather than being your core damage item.

I would personally make it something like this:

Build: BF Sword + Sheen + Cloak of Agility

Gives: Attack Damage Cooldown Reduction Critical Strike Chance Mana

And this iteration of the spellblade passive:

After casting an ability, the next basic attack deals bonus physical damage equal to 100% total Attack Damage on-hit (1.5 second cooldown). This bonus damage can critically strike.

This way, we have a sheen item that directly caters to ADC's, and then we can get a different iteration of Trinity Force that caters better to bruisers.

Also a solid idea.

I'm not particularly committed to the iteration I suggested. It was simply meant as a conversation starter. The basic idea is to provide the game with four versions of spellblade, one for Mages, one for Fighters, one for ADCs, and one for Tanks.

DorkunedAuras2 votes

100% total AD can crit is 100% absurd. Imagine a cait headshot+this proc+IE crit, that's easily 2k+ damage, maybe even 3k. I'm fine with it being a ratio, maybe even on bonus AD, but not 100%, that's too high for something like this.

Jungle Lux God1 votes

That begs the question of whether Caitlyn is going to buy this item.

You have to cast a spell while having a Headshot proc ready AND you have to crit on that headshot and the bonus damage all at once. Even if you could consistently set up this situation I double it would be practical over having more consistent DPS on her normal builds.

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