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Cinderhulk Top Lane

Vicarious117··1 votes·2,164 views

So just wanna point out that when going smite top lane just so you can get cinderhulk becomes the new best option then I think it's quite obvious there are some balance problems going on!

I made a post a while ago about how cinderhulk is forcing the other kinds of junglers out just by simply existing and I just got a lot of people assuming that I just wanted tank junglers gone, even though I specifically said in the OP that I love tank junglers and am happy they're back, but now with this new development in the LCS and pro play in general you guys can't seriously still be ignorant to the imbalance here.

When a laner takes the jungling summoner spell over a laning spell just so they can get this one item then that one item is simply too freakin strong! And it can be nerfed without forcing tanks back out of the meta, cause it's not the damage that helps them clear that's the issue here, it's that stupid 25% bonus health on top of everything.

So just like how some top laners at the start of the season were going smite just to get the skirmisher's saber because it was OP, they're doing the same for cinderhulk. Please Riot nerf it a little bit, not too much and don't reduce the damage or else you'll hurt the tanks clear speed again, but reduce the health more then a pitiful 50 health! Focus on the % increase, not the base, the base is already low enough.

A fix for this imbalance has seemed so stupidly obvious to me for some time now and it's just astounding how it's gone unfixed for so long.....

18 Comments

Erockandroll3 votes

Their is really nothing inheritanly wrong with CinderHulk being good on top laners. (considering only a few top laners can sacrifice TP or flash for smite.) Does it make tanks who could do this Oppressive? Possibly, but it should be dealt with on a champ to champ basis.

Riot also Stated that they don't oppose laners taking smite, as long as it doesn't crowd out other spells. But as it stands, it creates more Diversity, since it breaks the classic TP/Flash combo, that top lane would otherwise require. It also emphasizes a double Jungle strat, which is less likely in yoloQ since their are almost never any lane swaps in yoloQ.

Vicarious1171 votes

Right now in yoloQ people are spamming tank top laners with smite/tp and just farming until they become next to impossible to kill and can 1v1 your carries as well as hard engage for teamfights.

Diversity my ass, playing anything other then this is sub optimal now, it's ruining diversity.

SIayton3 votes

You're giving up flash or teleport for something that makes you have to spend gold early on with no combat stats. Its a fair trade off, IMO.

Vicarious1171 votes

It's not about the trade offs, it's that the choice exists at all! Smite is for the jungle, and the ONLY times it makes it's way to the lanes is when a jungle item or smite active is too strong. it doesn't really matter what the trade offs are if those trade offs don't make taking the jungling summoner spell near to unviable.

Onegarion1 votes

Why is smite only for the jungler? Smite is for jungle camps, dragon and baron control. Last I checked there is no rule/law that says only the jungler can secure them or do them. There is tradeoff as well as advantages that come with this. I think the problem isn't with smite, but with cinderhulk.

Vicarious1171 votes

There is a reason you are required to have smite for items with passives tailored to fighting jungle camps, cause it's meant for the jungle and those champions who are actually in the jungle.

When a non-jungler can take that summoner and give up anything else that should be more useful in lane, and get an item tailored to fighting jungle camps, and then come out stronger then the other champions who stuck with the laning summoners, then there is an issue.

It's not the smite itself that's the problem here, it's the items made specifically for jungle being stronger on laners then non jungling items are.

Dreadlocks1 votes

{quoted}

but reduce the health more then a pitiful 50 health! Focus on the % increase, not the base, the base is already low enough.

You realize you messed up here? You are saying Reduce the base health MORE then you say Focus on the % increase thats the OP part... then back to don't Reduce the base???

I think you mean the %Health is the OP part and its not OP it is what tanks need, they just need an item that tanks can build that doesn't require smite to obtain it.

Vicarious1171 votes

Right, keep arguing semantics, that will sure get me riled up!... not.

Kouga2 votes

I don't think the intent is to "rile you up" as much as it is trying to make your argument reasonably coherent. If no one can understand what you're bitching about, its harder to tell you why we don't care.

Vicarious1171 votes

It's painfully obvious, and taking something simply that obvious and smearing it to try and make an argument, or even just discussion, is commonly used to get the person you're nit picking upset. Otherwise what's the point in pretending to be utterly incompetent? Unless you are utterly incompetent ofc.

Crett1 votes

If you're not too worried about defense, it's a sunfire cape with (potentially) more damage and more hp scaling. Not necessarily worth taking top lane UNLESS YOU'RE SION

Dreadlocks2 votes

and yet hes using flash tp on UOL right now vs the smite tp shyvana xD

Renaille2 votes

{quoted}

and yet hes using flash tp on UOL right now vs the smite tp shyvana xD

And Lee sin isn't using cinderhulk. So much for " cinderhulk is forcing the other kinds of junglers out just by simply existing " like OP said.

Dreadlocks1 votes

The way the game is designed.. it is going to be very hard to force gank oriented junglers out.

Vicarious1171 votes

I'm not talking about LCS level play here, that should have been stupidly obvious. I'm talking about soloQ, where, oh idc just about everyone who plays this game spends most their time.

In SOLOQ cinderhulk is forcing anything else out of the jungle, and cinderhulk on top laners who can utilize it is a ticking time bomb that goes off extremely quickly. That's just a fact.

IcyPepper1 votes

So just wanna point out that when going smite top lane just so you can get cinderhulk becomes the new best option then I think it's quite obvious there are some balance problems going on!

Nobody complains about item 3031 item 3046 item 3035 being nearly essential to playing ADC.

Vicarious1171 votes

That's another whole issue in general, and also has to deal more with the bot lane dynamic of min-maxing. In top lane items are more reactionary, unless you're a cinderhulk top laner, then you're stronger and have a very basic build path to follow, similar to adcs, and it's more of an issue cause unlike adcs, not every top laner can actually do smite/cinderhulk successfully, meaning those who can't are being forced out.

IcyPepper1 votes

Several top laners, however, can opt for anti-tank items if they build bruiser style, or even glass cannon.

item 3153 for cinderhulk due to the passive, and item 3071 for whatever armor they build afterwards. If you get smited by challenging smite, botrk's active can be used as a peel perhaps.

I will say that there is counterplay to the item, and if someone takes smite to the top lane you should at least be wary. If they rush cinderhulk first, that's 300 health (+75) at first, then they have to build health in order to benefit from that passive.

You'll have to change your build a little, but so did they by taking smite instead of a typically necessary utility. There's trade-offs, it's not a simple matter of an OP item. You got tools, you can't expect the same build to work on every champion and every game, so it might be time to test out your item 3151 + item 3165 Teemo or your item 3153 item 3071 Vi or something.

We have options. We can't always go "X is OP, Rito plz nerf!" before going "What can we do to better handle the situation with the meta shaking like this?" We got to evaluate our options; it's just like dealing with a champion perceived to be OP. Sure, for example you got Annie who can sit on her stun all day, but her minion wave gets pushed back to her tower if you outrange her with spells like even Zed can do with his first three spells. If she tries to push back and lasthit minions with her Q or W, that gives you a window of opportunity to deal a shit ton of damage. Or you can build banshee's veil. There's always options.

We just have to think.

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