Darius's Bleed damage should be Physical

Chaotic Reks·May 15, 2015·110 votes·6,119 views

cause there's nothing magical about bleeding to death. Also is better for game health cause building armor against him would help against the bleed, but his 25% armor ignore would help him. Idk, i just hate laning against dar dar.

/update: to those of you complaining that it will be too strong late game, magic damage completely ignores armor and is mitigated by MR. If dar dar's bleed is physical, it will weaker at every part of the game because building armor would negate his entire kit (even if dar dar has armorpen, a small portion will be negated) whereas you could build MR to negate the bleed damage currently, but suffer from the rest of his kit. Another thing: Talon's bleed applies stacks of for every tick on his bleed., so dar dar wouldn't be the first to do this.

130 Comments

Takeuchi 17May 15, 201534 votes

having armor irl wouldnt make you bleed less, it would just soften blows (which it does in this game).

the magic of bleeding to death is that not all the champions have blood.

ima stick with that for my argument

Dr PoroMay 15, 201521 votes

But why is Talon's bleeding not magical then?

SlytherinUmbreonMay 15, 201585 votes

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6zt73PpKa1qkleryo1_500.png

Tis a nice dayMay 16, 20152 votes

Yu-gi-oh?

EgyptianMay 16, 20153 votes

it's time DU-U-U-U-FEEEEEEED

season 2 was pretty sweet though !

Takeuchi 17May 15, 20153 votes

my assumption would fall somewhere along the lines of burst assassin vs bruiser-tank kits. what would benefit one more over the other.

if talons was bleed magical then id assume people would be crying a lot about him since his kit is basically high ad, you would build armor to counter that and to have magic bleed on top of that would be pretty op.

darius' kit is usually one attack damage item and then tank. the magic bleed helps him counter other tanks who would just build armor to make him useless.

also darius has a large gigantic ass. nothing should stop the bleeding from that. vs talons little fire poker

I have no idea if any of that makes sense. i just pulled it out of my ass.

R2D20May 15, 20152 votes

inb4 Axe

YorukinMay 15, 20152 votes

Said fire poker is effectively a curved guillotine blade strapped to his wrist, but you know. It's the contrast that counts.

BlitzidiousMay 15, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Takeuchi 17,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VMbEbzVj,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2015-05-15T18:13:48.290+0000)

my assumption would fall somewhere along the lines of burst assassin vs bruiser-tank kits. what would benefit one more over the other.

if talons was bleed magical then id assume people would be crying a lot about him since his kit is basically high ad, you would build armor to counter that and to have magic bleed on top of that would be pretty op.

darius' kit is usually one attack damage item and then tank. the magic bleed helps him counter other tanks who would just build armor to make him useless.

also darius has a large gigantic ass. nothing should stop the bleeding from that. vs talons little fire poker

I have no idea if any of that makes sense. i just pulled it out of my ass.

Large, GIGANTIC, Ass. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Mr SlowdeathMay 16, 20152 votes

made my day, thanks!

Mathlete864May 15, 201525 votes

Well there's nothing Phyiscal about a shield. Riven

IcyPepperMay 15, 20155 votes

Um...

Well, not with a broken energy sword at least.

IllumanatiObamaMay 15, 201523 votes

If that happened, Darius would be moving at the speed of sound with the new Cleaver. And Cleaver would stack a lot faster like it does with Talon's bleed. I approve.

Troy242621May 15, 201518 votes

Darius should kill Graves instantly, because he ain't got time to bleed.

Sona PingMay 15, 20156 votes

Not quite. He "ain't got time to" so it should be "I ain't affected by your DoTs".

WutsKrakenMay 15, 201517 votes

Malphite Smashes the ground so hard he leaves a dent and disorients the enemy to where they attack slower Chucks/rolls a giant rock at the enemy that cripples them Charges into the enemy at like 200mph All magic damage >_<

Alistar Smashes the ground so hard it roots up the ground and makes people fly up Charges and headbutts the enemy at like 200mph Is so big n scary that he can trample towers, minions, and champions Magic Damage

XinZhao Charges at the enemy audaciously and reduces their armor Magic Damage

Pantheon Bashes someone's face in with a shield leap Crashes down on the ground so hard he leaves a giant impact and damages EVERYTHING in the radius Magic Damage

TheRakkunMay 15, 20152 votes

Azir Kills people using creatures made of sandstone Magic Damage.

The LovelessMay 15, 201519 votes

That's...that's actually reasonably magic damage.

NarasimhaMay 16, 20154 votes

Gangplank

Calls in his ship for back up Ship shoots cannonballs Cannonballs are apparently now magical.

AJking101May 16, 20158 votes

My turn

Warwick Claws the sh@# out of you while he suppresses you with 5 mighty blows using his giant wolf claws Magic damage

DrMundo Throws an over sized cleaver at your face Magic damage

Katarina Throws about 20 knives in your chest while spinning around viciously Magic damage

being set on fire Magic damage BUT

summoner 14 being set on fire True damage

That's all i got

SlytherinUmbreonMay 15, 201516 votes

but my MLG AP Darius build D:

Vistha KaiMay 15, 201511 votes

If that was true then:

Pick Darius
Rush
???
Freelo!

Zair UmbrasMay 15, 20156 votes

Darius already works like that.

Vistha KaiMay 15, 201510 votes

But it would work even better. 1 AA = max BC stacks.

Zair UmbrasMay 15, 20152 votes

Urgot already gets it on a single E, Talon gets it in a single R or Q, Hecarim can stack it near instantly, Wu's combo is pretty scary when it comes to stacking it, Renekton can do it in a single combo. Heck, Ren's W with fury does 3 stacks right there or 2 without fury. There's quite a few champions who can instantly stack a cleaver. Darius letting his bleed stack it would really do much. Even Garen can proc it quick since his E strikes every half second and it does do damage initially so a Q at you, then E for only 1s would give 4 stacks. 1 from Q and 3 from E (Initial, at .5s and at 1s). :P Darius's bleed managing to get 6 stacks after 5 seconds isn't really that scary when you look at some of the worst offenders.

Dunkrius2gMay 16, 20151 votes

It just means this. All Darius have to do is Q u. Now he has 20 ms flat and 5% for 5 seconds on % and 7 secs on phage passive. Now he has the choice to wait out on BC stacks and he will pull ur ass in. Then he will slow you with his W. Remember 20% CD so he will q ur ass again. It seems small but if he gets physical damage passive, then he will get very stronger cuz he can stick to you forever unless you flash or he runs oom.How? He should have 11-15% armor pen then you already have 30% armor shredded. And if you extend a fight for too long with Darius, then you will LOSE for sure cuz of constant W and attack speed slow and bleed ticking. Team fight wise it is alright cuz it will take 5 seconds for full BC stacks. Laning though, you will have to wait 10 secs to either think about fighting him or take unnecassy harass.

TL;DR Darius will be stronger BUT u can buy armor against him. He will benifit a lot from BC. Team fights nowadays are long like 15-20 secs SO he will be the true tank killer/shredder.

qetzelMay 15, 20152 votes

I understand that this isn't exactly useful or conducive to the discussion or joke, but wouldn'tthat work better as: For Darius: Step 1: Rush item 3071 Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit

I don't know, man. Dat tricolon tho.

Vistha KaiMay 15, 20152 votes

Disregard adversaries, acquire Afro-american Hatchet.

avilusMay 15, 20157 votes

Come now, friend. We can't simply give away Darius' hidden passive...

Trybrid Damage!

Physical, Magical,** AND** True!

Vistha KaiMay 15, 20152 votes

There is also Pure damage of Nexus Obelisk :^)

The LovelessMay 15, 20157 votes

Corki

VinyltaviaMay 16, 20153 votes

Irelia

Buttigieg 2020May 16, 20152 votes

RekSai

TehNACHOMay 15, 20155 votes

Just so long as either his Q is reworked or his bleed doesn't interact with Black Cleaver.

Little too much Teamfight Shred otherwise.

Critmaster GarenMay 15, 20155 votes

early game nerf, lategame buff.

armor stacking will be more effective against him in lane. lategame, a physical beleed would allow to shred the armor of multiple opponents, as 1 stack on each enemy (via q or hydra) would be enough.

junglerboy16May 15, 20155 votes

It does indeed make him strong early, but part of having it be magical is that mixed damage falls off late game. Which would you prefer:

A very annoying Darius that is tricky to itemize against in lane.
A Darius that is still almost as hard to itemize against in lane (because BC and built in armor pen), but scales much better into late game.

Darius current niche is being a strong lane bully that you beat by surviving lane phase and then outscaling. turning the bleed physical would make it a little more bearable to lane against him (but lets face it, his laning power isn't just derived from the fact that he has a magic damage bleed, it's also from his high early ability damage and anti-melee snowball kit), but would improve his late game dramatically. He would only need to Q an enemy team once to apply a full shred from BC to everyone.

The reason Talon's bleed can interact with BC and still be healthy is that it is an active ability and is single target. Darius bleed applies to everything he damages with attacks or abilities, and has no cooldown.

Yes, Magic damage ignores armor (I'm sick of people using this nonsensical argument), but anyone with half a brain has at least one MR item late game (even squishies will buy a QSS or Maw or Athene's or something similar), and that one mr item makes that magic damage less effective than a bleed that penetrates and shreds armor all at once (because even if it deals a little bit more damage on its own, the physical bleed would be comparable while also offering immense utility), so your argument (aside from being absolutely irrelevant) doesn't hold water.

JustMyBassCannonMay 15, 20153 votes

I can see people getting behind this idea before the new Black Cleaver.

But after they made Black Cleaver build from Phage and attach its Rage effect to physical damage, this just sounds like a terrible way to give Darius ridiculous combat mobility and utility.

FirstSergeantBimMay 15, 20153 votes

How would that give him ridiculous combat mobility? It isn't increasing Rage's MS boost and he already procs the MS boost very easily. If anything it would give him a little more purpose and even out his power level throughout a match.

JustMyBassCannonMay 16, 20152 votes

Mobility and Utility.

If you don't understand how a DoT permeating a decaying MS boost actually increases its effectiveness, you might not understand the mechanic interaction at all.

If you don't understand how guaranteeing they hit full Armor Shred stacks with a single tap is powerful team utility, you might be looking at this from a completely different perspective.

If you were expecting "ridiculous mobility" to imply he's hopping like Kalista, you might need a different relative point of view--say, compared to other chunky melees without gap closers.

FirstSergeantBimMay 16, 20152 votes

I mean that's the thing. The English language tells me that "ridiculous mobility" should be something... well.. ridiculous. Outrageous, frustrating, annoying, unbearable. Darius getting a 20 MS boost (maybe more often) doesn't seem very ridiculous. Even the utility doesn't seem that much more "ridiculous" to be honest.

Please, use more accurate words. Go back to elementary school or something, sheesh.

JustMyBassCannonMay 16, 20153 votes

That 20 MS boost decays on anyone else, making it actually weaker than +20 MS for 2 seconds. If you have a physical damage DoT, due to how Black Cleaver works, instead it would refresh as the damage ticks go by, keeping it closer to the full bonus and keeping it longer than other champs.

Instead of "ridiculous," how about I use the words "excessively extended?"

And the utility of guaranteeing full Cleaver stacks has huge implications, both for himself and his teammates. The fact that the only comparable parallel is another champion's ultimate--Wukong's Cyclone, to be precise--points to just how strong this can actually be when used right.

But, no, it's not literally breaking the game, so it's apparently not ridiculous. I forgot how uncool it is to use emphatic adjectives for something that isn't at least world-shattering.

FirstSergeantBimMay 16, 20152 votes

Pretty good. I think you can describe that as pretty good because that's all it is.

Teridax68May 15, 20153 votes

I agree with this, but I think Darius needs more in-depth changes than just a damage type switch on his passive. Currently, the justification for his mixed damage and armor penetration is that he absolutely needs to kill his target if they ever wander too close to him, since he's otherwise super-kiteable, and with this change he'd likely get shut down pretty hard by most tanks. I'm not saying Darius's damage is reasonable (it's not fun to play a melee champion against him in lane), but he does need to have a better-defined late-game role if he receives a change like this.

Dunkrius2gMay 15, 20152 votes

Increase damage by a tad bit and I won't mind at all.

OLD: 60 / 75 / 90 / 105 / 120 / 135 / 150 / 165 / 180 (+ 150% bonus AD) magic damage over the duration.

NEW: 60 / 75 / 90 / 105/120/135/150/165/180 (+ 200% bonus AD) physical damage over the duration.

EDIT: item 3078 item 3071 item 3111 item 3143 item 3102 item 3026 . Make it physical. AND DONT EVEN THINK ABOUT any nerfs/reverts. Once it is physical, then be happy with that change.

LittleBlastMay 15, 20155 votes

No pls the bleed is annoying enough.

ZazushaMay 15, 20151 votes

item 3071 yes, physical bleed pls. hit by 1 skill/auto, all of ur Armor is shreded in seconds.

Chaotic ReksMay 15, 20156 votes

meanwhile: Talon "Noxian Diplomacy will apply the passive armor shred of The Black Cleaver Black Cleaver for every tick of the bleed effect." -LoL Wiki