But Riot still thinks they aren't competitive picks.They have other opinion.Better nerf Azir but meanwhile TF, Liss, Elise are viable competitive champions every time.Where is nerf? You nerfed Azir but you don't nerf this competitive champions.Where are your principles, rules? They are fine maybe but they are strong competitive picks so you must nerf them.
Worlds preparing but they don't nerf strong competitive picks.Interesting.
Tilthankaldar5 votesElise is strong but not broken.
TFs fine he lacks burst/aoe damage.
Liss is ok..
Treune811 votesElise is strong but not broken.
TFs fine he lacks burst/aoe damage.
Liss is ok..
Azir was strong but he wasn't broken.Result? They nerfed because of meta change.They must nerf this strong competitive champions.I sense double standard.Probably Reddit Elise mains will cry so they don't nerf.I saw Reddit Elise mains screams.
Gragas, Reksai took nerfs where is Elise nerf? We see Gragas, Reksai, Elise since the beginning of season.
Tilthankaldar6 votesAzir was strong but he wasn't broken.Result? They nerfed because of meta change.They must nerf this strong competitive champions.I sense double standard.Probably Reddit Elise mains will cry so they don't nerf.
They nerfed azir because he was a hyper-carry who was extremely strong in lane.
Thats like vayne getting buffs where shes busted in lane
Treune811 votesThey nerfed azir because he was a hyper-carry who was extremely strong in lane.
Thats like vayne getting buffs where shes busted in lane
They nerfed Azir because he was strong competitive.The only reason.They nerfed Gragas, Reksai.Because competitive.They must nerf Elise, TF, Lissandra.
Tilthankaldar5 votesThey nerfed Azir because he was strong competitive.The only reason.They nerfed Gragas, Reksai.Because competitive.They must nerf Elise, TF, Lissandra.
Akatsuki deidara please quit this game and go to school
21st Legion3 votesThey nerfed Azir because he was strong competitive.The only reason.They nerfed Gragas, Reksai.Because competitive.They must nerf Elise, TF, Lissandra.
They nerfed Azir because he had a very safe lane with high damage output, and could snowball that into an oppressive endgame, which none of the champs you listed do. Being strong in competitive =/= broken and needs a nerf, its just that when things like that are oppressively strong, competitive players pick up on it and use them a lot, leading to Riot seeing how in need of nerfs the champs are, so they get nerfed, but it isn't a direct and binary correlation.
Treune811 votes[{quoted}](name=21st Legion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VGbrdnkE,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2016-08-11T18:15:34.606+0000)
They nerfed Azir because he had a very safe lane with high damage output, and could snowball that into an oppressive endgame, which none of the champs you listed do. Being strong in competitive =/= broken and needs a nerf, its just that when things like that are oppressively strong, competitive players pick up on it and use them a lot, leading to Riot seeing how in need of nerfs the champs are, so they get nerfed, but it isn't a direct and binary correlation.
Reksai and Gragas excuse please.Because you're talking like Riotgypsy.Only excuse.Only champion potential.Only champion mechanics.
ModWulf Helhammer3 votesWhat the hell are you even saying?
ModWulf Helhammer3 votesNo, what you said in that comment. What the hell does that even mean?
Treune811 votesNo, what you said in that comment. What the hell does that even mean?
Don't troll.Write true comment or leave thread.
ModWulf Helhammer3 votesI'm going to make this as simple as possible, as you clearly don't have even a pinkyhold on an understanding of English:
I do not understand what it is that you wrote.
If you all you write is gibberish, no one will take you seriously or give you reasons.
Tilthankaldar3 votesWhat the hell are you even saying?
^
ModWulf Helhammer5 votesHere's a tip: if you're going to create a new account so that people don't automatically write you off, don't write the exact same way.
And for heaven's sake learn how to use punctuation and sentence structure
Treune811 votesHere's a tip: if you're going to create a new account so that people don't automatically write you off, don't write the exact same way.
And for heaven's sake learn how to use punctuation and sentence structure
You don't protect your main champions because they are strong competitive pick and deserve nerfs.
ModWulf Helhammer4 votesHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't play any of those champions. Don't own lissandra or Elise either, and the only reason I have TF is because I got him from a champ shard reroll.
Maybe look up my match history before you make yourself look more of a fool
Treune811 votesHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I don't play any of those champions. Don't own lissandra or Elise either, and the only reason I have TF is because I got him from a champ shard reroll.
Maybe look up my match history before you make yourself look more of a fool
Firstly you read thread.You learn some opinions.
ModWulf Helhammer5 votesOh trust me, I've read every comment on this thread. I just have no need to post my opinions on it because the others are quite capably doing that.
You don't understand because you don't read and you are troll.
Alright clearly that wasn't enough. So let's make this more simple:
YOU DON'T ENGLISH WELL
or how about this: take this sentence: "what you wrote doesn't make any sense as no one can understand what it is you are trying to say" and paste it into google translate for whatever your native language is, because it sure as hell isn't English
Treune811 votesOh trust me, I've read every comment on this thread. I just have no need to post my opinions on it because the others are quite capably doing that.
Alright clearly that wasn't enough. So let's make this more simple:
YOU DON'T ENGLISH WELL
or how about this: take this sentence: "what you wrote doesn't make any sense as no one can understand what it is you are trying to say" and paste it into google translate for whatever your native language is, because it sure as hell isn't English
Other people understand but you.Just a troll.Trolls like unnecessary discussions.Thread is clear and net.Keep it short.
ModWulf Helhammer4 votesI get what your general (stupid) premise is: Tf, Lissandra, and Elise need nerfs because they are semi-popular pro picks.
What I don't get is this comment:
Reksai and Gragas excuse please.Because you're talking like Riotgypsy.Only excuse.Only champion potential.Only champion mechanics.
Seriously, what on earth are you trying to say there?
Treune811 votesI get what your general (stupid) premise is: Tf, Lissandra, and Elise need nerfs because they are semi-popular pro picks.
What I don't get is this comment:
Seriously, what on earth are you trying to say there?
You don't talk if you don't know Riotgypsy.You aren't informed about some topics.
ModWulf Helhammer4 votesI know who Riot Gypsylord is. And what does knowing who a Rioter is have pertaining to this conversation?
Treune811 votesI know who Riot Gypsylord is. And what does knowing who a Rioter is have pertaining to this conversation?
Read Azir rework context.Same champion kit excuses.You aren't informed about some topics.Meanwhile I know what I'm saying.
Competitive meta doesn't mean champion features.
xXxAltaïrrxXx3 votesRead Azir rework context.Same champion kit excuses.You aren't informed about some topics.Meanwhile I know what I'm saying.
Competitive meta doesn't mean champion features.
Wtf is this?French people on EUW type better in english then u.What does ur last sentence even mean?
SithesisLord4 votesLissandra builds somewhat beefy with items that besides giving AP, give HP or Mana or both. See 
It makes her slightly harder to kill, but if she uses her E to engage, she has to ult someone and W to disengage, which, unless she already has at least a 5 stack RoA will eat a lot of her mana away.
Twisted Fate is garbage right now. Unreliable pick unless global vision/stun bot is what you want.
Elise has been weakened a bit. People often pick her for the diving capability she has. But she only really has one reliable CC. Her cocoon. Building Rylai's on her helps her stick, but a gank can only be 100% successful if she lands her cocoon, which, be shocked, is a thin line skillshot and quite difficult to land because of that. Plus, she makes for an excellent frontliner if built with Cinderhulk+mix of AP/tank items.
Azir's ult nerf might have been too much, but the power curve nerf of his soldiers was well deserved when he can essentially pin someone down with double W+Q combo after Rylai's is bought. If anything, i´d rather have his Q nerfed instead of his ult.
Treune811 votesLissandra builds somewhat beefy with items that besides giving AP, give HP or Mana or both. See
Twisted Fate is garbage right now. Unreliable pick unless global vision/stun bot is what you want.
Elise has been weakened a bit. People often pick her for the diving capability she has. But she only really has one reliable CC. Her cocoon. Building Rylai's on her helps her stick, but a gank can only be 100% successful if she lands her cocoon, which, be shocked, is a thin line skillshot and quite difficult to land because of that. Plus, she makes for an excellent frontliner if built with Cinderhulk+mix of AP/tank items.
Azir's ult nerf might have been too much, but the power curve nerf of his soldiers was well deserved when he can essentially pin someone down with double W+Q combo after Rylai's is bought. If anything, i´d rather have his Q nerfed instead of his ult.
We should talk over numbers.Look last LCK, LPL games and Elise's p/b rate.
SithesisLord1 votesAnd?
Alistar had a 90.2% P/B rate but a negative winrate in the LCK. And a 83.2% P/B rate in the LPL. Both stats just during the spring season.
Odd that i haven´t seen you complain about him. Far from me to think he's OP. He's balanced, really.
LPL Spring Season stats:
Lissandra: 55.3% P/B, with 61 games played, 64 games banned with a 59% WR. Elise: 37.6% P/B, with 77 games played, 8 games banned with a 42.9% WR. Twisted Fate: 28.8% P/B, with 18 games played, 47 games banned with a 72.2% WR.
LPL Summer Season stats:
Lissandra: 27.1% P/B, with 9 games played, 4 games banned with a 66.7% WR. Elise: 25% P/B, with 10 games played, 2 games banned with a 20% WR. Twisted Fate: 20.8% P/B, with 6 games played, 4 games banned with a 83.3% WR.
Overall, Lissandra had a good, rather balanced run in the LPL, despite being banned 3 games more.
Elise barely had any pressure at all. Both seasons of the LPL ended with her having negative Win Rates.
TF spent a lot of games banned on a ratio of nearly 3 banned games for every played game. But most of the games played, he won.
Does that mean he deserves a nerf? Hardly.
In more ways than one, he's an opposite case to Garen. In which Garen is good in normal ranked queue but bad in competitive, while TF is bad in ranked, good in competitive because of the utility he brings.
A nigh global ult that grants vision on enemies then allows him to teleport, gold card in hand, ready to gank? That´s extremely useful in competitive.
Now let´s move on to the LCK.
LCK Spring Season stats:
Lissandra: 64.2% P/B, with 70 games played, 68 games banned with a 48.6% WR. Elise: 59.1% P/B, with 117 games played, 10 games banned with a 50.4% WR. Twisted Fate: 38.6% P/B, with 27 games played, 56 games banned with a 66.7% WR.
LCK Summer Season stats:
Lissandra: Not played or banned. Elise: 75.8% P/B, with 18 games played, 7 games banned with a 38.9% WR. Twisted Fate: 30.3% P/B, with 2 games played, 8 games banned with a 50% WR.
In the LCK, Lissandra had a good run again, with an average winrate.
Elise only did fairly in the Spring season, falling to a below average and honestly poor winrate in the summer season.
TF still more banned than picked, but winning most games played. Still not indicative that he needs nerfs.
And the fact that Riot has not informed us of any changes to them, nor have done it on the first 3 PBE patches most likely mean they will not be receiving any at least for 6.17, and probably might have something in wait for them in the Worlds patch, but then again, most likely not since they are fairly balanced for what they do.
Sources:
http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/LCK/2016_Season/Spring_Season/Statistics/Champions http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/LCK/2016_Season/Summer_Season/Statistics/Champions http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/LPL/2016_Season/Spring_Season/Statistics/Champions http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/LPL/2016_Season/Summer_Season/Statistics/Champions
Treune811 votesAnd?
Alistar had a 90.2% P/B rate but a negative winrate in the LCK. And a 83.2% P/B rate in the LPL. Both stats just during the spring season.
Odd that i haven´t seen you complain about him. Far from me to think he's OP. He's balanced, really.
LPL Spring Season stats:
LPL Summer Season stats:
Overall, Lissandra had a good, rather balanced run in the LPL, despite being banned 3 games more.
Elise barely had any pressure at all. Both seasons of the LPL ended with her having negative Win Rates.
TF spent a lot of games banned on a ratio of nearly 3 banned games for every played game. But most of the games played, he won.
Does that mean he deserves a nerf? Hardly.
In more ways than one, he's an opposite case to Garen. In which Garen is good in normal ranked queue but bad in competitive, while TF is bad in ranked, good in competitive because of the utility he brings.
A nigh global ult that grants vision on enemies then allows him to teleport, gold card in hand, ready to gank? That´s extremely useful in competitive.
Now let´s move on to the LCK.
LCK Spring Season stats:
LCK Summer Season stats:
In the LCK, Lissandra had a good run again, with an average winrate.
Elise only did fairly in the Spring season, falling to a below average and honestly poor winrate in the summer season.
TF still more banned than picked, but winning most games played. Still not indicative that he needs nerfs.
And the fact that Riot has not informed us of any changes to them, nor have done it on the first 3 PBE patches most likely mean they will not be receiving any at least for 6.17, and probably might have something in wait for them in the Worlds patch, but then again, most likely not since they are fairly balanced for what they do.
Sources:
http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/LCK/2016_Season/Spring_Season/Statistics/Champions http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/LCK/2016_Season/Summer_Season/Statistics/Champions http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/LPL/2016_Season/Spring_Season/Statistics/Champions http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/LPL/2016_Season/Summer_Season/Statistics/Champions
As a result this three champions deserve nerf.Especially Elise and Lissandra every game on LCK lately.
Handy Sandy 3 votesLiss is a close range mage
Elise..yea she doesn't really need anything.
Treune811 votesLiss is a close range mage
Elise..yea she doesn't really need anything.
They are strong competitive pick so they deserve nerf.We're talking competitive.
Handy Sandy 3 votesThey are strong competitive pick so they deserve nerf.We're talking competitive.
Strong competitive pick doesn't mean they are OP.
Treune811 votesStrong competitive pick doesn't mean they are OP.
Strong competitive picks deserve nerf like other competitive champion nerfs! This is game balance around competitive.Where is injustice?
I found other double standard.
Handy Sandy 4 votesStrong competitive picks deserve nerf like other competitive champion nerfs! This is game balance around competitive.Where is injustice?
I found other double standard.
Why would they get nerfed because they are popular? Give us some proof on why they need to be nerfed.
Treune811 votesWhy would they get nerfed because they are popular? Give us some proof on why they need to be nerfed.
Why Azir was nerfed? Because he is popular? He wasn't op.He wasn't strong.Gragas wasn't op. Gragas wasn't strong.Reksai wasn't op.Reksai wasn't strong.
Handy Sandy 5 votesWhy Azir was nerfed? Because he is popular? He wasn't op.He wasn't strong.Gragas wasn't op. Gragas wasn't strong.Reksai wasn't op.Reksai wasn't strong.
Hmm..Being slowed while being poked down with 3 soldiers, if you used him right you weren't able to be ganked and still do tons of damage. Also he can push people into turrets, yea not OP at all since he has extremely high range and one of the **best and safest ** laning phases. You're talking about a different champion here, which is nothing like TF, Liss or Elise.
Treune811 votesHmm..Being slowed while being poked down with 3 soldiers, if you used him right you weren't able to be ganked and still do tons of damage. Also he can push people into turrets, yea not OP at all since he has extremely high range and one of the **best and safest ** laning phases.
Hahaha.Bad and simple excuses again.Sorry.You aren't successful.Champion kit excuses.Classic.
I'm talking competitive. I'm not talking about champion kit!
Catastrop1 votesHahaha.Bad and simple excuses again.Sorry.You aren't successful.Champion kit excuses.Classic.
I'm talking competitive. I'm not talking about champion kit!
What kind of god awful absolute shit counter argument is this? What the fuck do you think makes a champion competitive? Nice visuals? It's their kits that allow them to be played competitively because they offer something. With the exception of Elise, Liss and TF have balanced kits.
Treune811 votesWhat kind of god awful absolute shit counter argument is this? What the fuck do you think makes a champion competitive? Nice visuals? It's their kits that allow them to be played competitively because they offer something. With the exception of Elise, Liss and TF have balanced kits.
Hahaha.Shit counter or stats? Learn stats.
Catastrop1 votesHahaha.Shit counter or stats? Learn stats.
I'm with AvantelWings here, I have no clue what the hell you're trying to saying here.
Treune811 votesI'm with AvantelWings here, I have no clue what the hell you're trying to saying here.
or you're AvantelWings? Anyway Karma, Sivir, Ashe had balance kits but she was nerfed.Lissandra and Elise deserve nerfs.Tf maybe but we need Elise and Lissandra nerfs for Worlds diversity.
Lissandra's counterpick number is very less.Cassio is ct pick maybe, Kassadin maybe (I think he isn't ct pick because very weak early), Lux maybe.Lissandra needs nerf.She is good all matchups.
AcidTheWarlock4 votesAre you kidding me?! Azir was ridiculous when he was good!
He had everything. Huge range, great mobility, excellent poke, strong laning, AND he was a late-game hypercarry.
It's sad he's dumpstered, but seriously, it was insane.
And Gragas has everything too.
Rek'Sai is just hated over at Rito since pros make her really really damn good, but us plebs who don't have 1000+ games on her can't do it.
I'd honestly be asking about Nidalee nerfs if you want pro jungler nerfs.
Treune811 votesAre you kidding me?! Azir was ridiculous when he was good!
He had everything. Huge range, great mobility, excellent poke, strong laning, AND he was a late-game hypercarry.
It's sad he's dumpstered, but seriously, it was insane.
And Gragas has everything too.
Rek'Sai is just hated over at Rito since pros make her really really damn good, but us plebs who don't have 1000+ games on her can't do it.
I'd honestly be asking about Nidalee nerfs if you want pro jungler nerfs.
Elise has too.You don't defend to me your main champion.That champions deserve nerf.Keep it short excuses.
AcidTheWarlock4 votesI see Elise a lot less that Gragas, Rek'Sai, and Nidalee.
And I'm not defending my main.
She has everything but good teamfighting, and her jungle clear, while strong, isn't over the top like Nidalee's.
She has potent ganks, strong mobility, CC, and damage. But she lacks a lot in teamfights and doesn't make up for that in pure early power, like I said before.
I guess if you really wanted a hard meta shift you could nerf her. Hell, she has a 49.77% win rate.
I'd say that's pretty balanced.
Treune811 votesI see Elise a lot less that Gragas, Rek'Sai, and Nidalee.
And I'm not defending my main.
She has everything but good teamfighting, and her jungle clear, while strong, isn't over the top like Nidalee's.
She has potent ganks, strong mobility, CC, and damage. But she lacks a lot in teamfights and doesn't make up for that in pure early power, like I said before.
I guess if you really wanted a hard meta shift you could nerf her. Hell, she has a 49.77% win rate.
I'd say that's pretty balanced.
Are you watching LCK?
Stats: http://www.gamesoflegends.com/champion/picksandbans.php?season=S6&split=Summer
S6 summer split stats.41% P/B Elise, 47% P/B Gragas.
Is 6% difference very big?
AcidTheWarlock4 votesNo, I'm not watching LCK. I haven't for a while.
You don't see Viktor or Karma getting huge nerfs for Worlds, do you? Or Ryze and Trundle?
Those last 2 are way worse than Elise's 47% win rate.
Treune811 votesAre you kidding me?! Azir was ridiculous when he was good!
He had everything. Huge range, great mobility, excellent poke, strong laning, AND he was a late-game hypercarry.
It's sad he's dumpstered, but seriously, it was insane.
And Gragas has everything too.
Rek'Sai is just hated over at Rito since pros make her really really damn good, but us plebs who don't have 1000+ games on her can't do it.
I'd honestly be asking about Nidalee nerfs if you want pro jungler nerfs.
What is meaning of meta change? Elise deserves nerf.
VivaLaKitten3 votesthe last thing Lissandra and Twisted fate need is a nerf Twisted fate as of now is one of the least reliable champions in the game, and as an ap tf you are so very . . .very . . . very weak compared to nearly every other mage Lissandra is also highly unreliable and is only good when you know how to play her, and even then shes definitely not in the best spot
Treune811 votesthe last thing Lissandra and Twisted fate need is a nerf Twisted fate as of now is one of the least reliable champions in the game, and as an ap tf you are so very . . .very . . . very weak compared to nearly every other mage Lissandra is also highly unreliable and is only good when you know how to play her, and even then shes definitely not in the best spot
Lissandra is the best blind pick champion.Hard CC, free kill ult champion, less counterpick, pressure with her ult so enemy takes Cleanse.
Lissandra deserves nerf and I see many times at LCK.
Xozi2 votesTF can be melted easily. I'm a Lissandra main, lvl 6, 95K.
Elise I agree with. she is very strong. and TF has a ton of burst damage. but I don't think Lissandra and TF can hold a candle to Illaoi and Morgana. Morgana has a 3 second stun and a spell shield, Illaoi can 1v5 at half health lvl 11+.
To be nurfed there has to be a mechanic with the champion that is actually broken. IMO Illaoi fits perfectly for and is long overdue for a nurf. Even early game her tentacles do so much damage and steal so much health, id suggest the percent lifesteal in ult and per tentacle be reduced. She will still be the solo carry everyone hates to see top lane, but at least there will be more options for fighting her other than move a lot and just hold lane the best you can. When will I be able to aggress illaoi from even ground early game?
Lissandra though, her cooldowns are pretty long on everything except for her Q. which is her spam/farm/harass. Its what makes her dominant. She doesn't do enough damage and definitely cannot 1v5 unless shes fed. TF, yeah he does a ton of damage and his stun is pretty crazy. but they made QSS for a reason fam.