1-http://www.gamesoflegends.com/champion/stats.php?id=49&season=S6&tournament=LPL%20Summer%20Playoffs%202016 2-http://www.gamesoflegends.com/champion/stats.php?id=49&season=ALL&tournament=LCK%20Summer%20Playoffs%202016 3-http://www.gamesoflegends.com/champion/stats.php?id=49&tournament=ALL&season=S6&split=Summer
Evidences.
Meanwhile Lissandra is picked every game nowadays.OCE, TR, LCK, LPL.
Beoridas8 votesher being picked doesnt mean she op. that being said, i checked her stats and it seems very average to say the least.
shes sort of an initiation mage/control mage like ori.
her dmg is 42nd/48 and has a 50% win rate to name just a few.
Treune811 votesher being picked doesnt mean she op. that being said, i checked her stats and it seems very average to say the least.
shes sort of an initiation mage/control mage like ori.
her dmg is 42nd/48 and has a 50% win rate to name just a few.
GIA-UOL 3 games 3 bans.She is so strong right now.She needs nerf because this is balanced around competitive.This is your excuse.Her competitive stats increase.I'm not champion hater.I tell its what if necessary.
I'm saying early but you will see soon.
Beoridas6 votesyou're trying to imitate riot. But you know whatm it doesnt work like that. Many ppl are like, ohh riot said this so i see that so it =nerfs.
Many champs are played in competitve and arent nerfed. Also, there is such a thing as target bans. Which is obv the case here.
Strong also doesnt mean op. Kassadin was played in asia a couple of time. So must nerf all of em right?
but since that wont be enough for you, i checked the stats for yor claims.
Wanna know some fun facts?
65 champs were played in competitve.
liss is 26th win rate. how about most picked? liss is 29th with 12% pick rate and 8% ban rate (ranked 21st)
So in every category: solo queue, competitve, shes not even to the level you claim she is.
the game is primarily balanced around competitive, that much is true but not solely.
Treune811 votesyou're trying to imitate riot. But you know whatm it doesnt work like that. Many ppl are like, ohh riot said this so i see that so it =nerfs.
Many champs are played in competitve and arent nerfed. Also, there is such a thing as target bans. Which is obv the case here.
Strong also doesnt mean op. Kassadin was played in asia a couple of time. So must nerf all of em right?
but since that wont be enough for you, i checked the stats for yor claims.
Wanna know some fun facts?
65 champs were played in competitve.
liss is 26th win rate. how about most picked? liss is 29th with 12% pick rate and 8% ban rate (ranked 21st)
So in every category: solo queue, competitve, shes not even to the level you claim she is.
the game is primarily balanced around competitive, that much is true but not solely.
We will see soon.Lissandra will get nerf.Riot follows Lissandra I know.They said a lot times ''Lissandra is so strong.''
Azir's win rate was 110. but Azir got nerf because of competitive stats.Next champion is Lissandra.Following Cassio etc.Your argument over.
Beoridas7 votesHA, you see thats two different subjects.
Being op and going to get nerfs.
It IS possible she eventually get nerfs because SOMETHING is out of line.
But shes not op at any rate.
Treune811 votesHA, you see thats two different subjects.
Being op and going to get nerfs.
It IS possible she eventually get nerfs because SOMETHING is out of line.
But shes not op at any rate.
Write me Lissandra's competitive stats please.Especially last 10 days.Hard CC, burst, engage, disengage, she can 1v1 against all champions, wonderful waveclear, strong mid and early game+ very good late game, flexible pick.She can not have all of them.
Beoridas5 votesRiot principles arent that simple.
Liss is a control/burst mage. she is a lot like ori in principle.
http://www.gosugamers.net/lol/pick-stats
has up to two years of stats in competitive.
she brings plenty to the table but many burst mage do.
The difference is that she has an escape but she is among the least of the burst mages in exchange. (all burst mages has great waveclear and cc)
You can see her overall stats at www.champion.gg
and a list of classes/subclasses http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list
Treune811 votesRiot principles arent that simple.
Liss is a control/burst mage. she is a lot like ori in principle.
http://www.gosugamers.net/lol/pick-stats
has up to two years of stats in competitive.
she brings plenty to the table but many burst mage do.
The difference is that she has an escape but she is among the least of the burst mages in exchange. (all burst mages has great waveclear and cc)
You can see her overall stats at www.champion.gg
and a list of classes/subclasses http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list
Your stats soloq and patch between 4.16-4.20.Season 4 stats.
Look my stats.Live stats and Lissandra need nerfs.Lissandra has very much features so they must reduce some features.I'm talking competitive.Soloq stats aren't indicator competitive stats are indicator.
Beoridas3 voteswhat are you talking about? our performances are irrelevant. I have a 80% win rate with pantheon and 75% with voli. Heck i even used to have a 40% win rate when renekton used to be the king of top lane.
You are comparing your performance with 100,000 games of data. minimum. You said she's being too strong, i showed u soloq info to prove you otherwise, then you said competitve, then i proved it to you again.
I guess it doesnt matter what good stats or anthing i bring to you cause you arent seeking the truth or facts, you just care about your opinion. I know a guy who has a 75% win rate with urgod. Still means nothing, you may want to change your understanding of balance.
Treune811 voteswhat are you talking about? our performances are irrelevant. I have a 80% win rate with pantheon and 75% with voli. Heck i even used to have a 40% win rate when renekton used to be the king of top lane.
You are comparing your performance with 100,000 games of data. minimum. You said she's being too strong, i showed u soloq info to prove you otherwise, then you said competitve, then i proved it to you again.
I guess it doesnt matter what good stats or anthing i bring to you cause you arent seeking the truth or facts, you just care about your opinion. I know a guy who has a 75% win rate with urgod. Still means nothing, you may want to change your understanding of balance.
Because this game is balanced around soloq.Your individual win rate isn't indicator.You don't know balance rules.Competitive shows champions's power.Soloq stats aren't true and healthy.Look Azir's soloq stats.Look Sona's soloq stats.Difference win rates and both champions are weak competitive.
Riot's balance factor is competitive.Do you know meaning of competitive stats?
Beoridas3 votes-''GIA-UOL 3 games 3 bans.She is so strong right now.She needs nerf because this is balanced around competitive.'' (after i showed u soloq stats) then -''Look my stats.Live stats and Lissandra need nerfs.'' (showed you competitive stats that proves u wrong with this irrelevant statement)
then -''Because this game is balanced around soloq.Your individual win rate isn't indicator.'' (then contradict urself and goes back to soloq)
-''Soloq stats aren't indicator competitive stats are indicator.''
like are you ok? you keep changing arguments everytime i show u facts and you end up contradicting urself. which is it? personal data? soloq? competitive? i showed u facts at all 3.
Treune811 votesthen -''Look my stats.Live stats and Lissandra need nerfs.'' (showed you competitive stats that proves u wrong with this irrelevant statement) then -''Because this game is balanced around soloq.Your individual win rate isn't indicator.'' (then contradict urself and goes back to soloq) -''Soloq stats aren't indicator competitive stats are indicator.''
like are you ok? you keep changing arguments everytime i show u facts and you end up contradicting urself. which isnt? personal data? soloq? competitive? i showed u facts at all 3.
Your soloq stats are season 4 stats.Are you patient? Soloq stats aren't indicator.You showed wrong stats.You must show true stats.
Beoridas4 votesYOU said: competitive. I showed you this:
http://www.gosugamers.net/lol/pick-stats
all 2016 liss stats
then YOU said its all soloQ: then i showed you this: http://www.champion.gg/champion/Lissandra
then YOU said its my personal data: Then i told you that its completely irrelevant.
You contradicted yourself 3 times and said something else everytime i showed you data.
are you ok?
Beoridas3 votesyou have to select the tournaments!
if you checked you would have seen that my numbers didnt match the ones that includes 2014. you have to pick 2016 NA, EU and korea summer
Catastrop1 votesDon't bother, I had this same conversation but stopped after 2 posts because he just kept saying random crap that no relevance to the discussion.
Treune811 voteswhat are you talking about? our performances are irrelevant. I have a 80% win rate with pantheon and 75% with voli. Heck i even used to have a 40% win rate when renekton used to be the king of top lane.
You are comparing your performance with 100,000 games of data. minimum. You said she's being too strong, i showed u soloq info to prove you otherwise, then you said competitve, then i proved it to you again.
I guess it doesnt matter what good stats or anthing i bring to you cause you arent seeking the truth or facts, you just care about your opinion. I know a guy who has a 75% win rate with urgod. Still means nothing, you may want to change your understanding of balance.
Your competitive stats are patch 4.16-4.20.SEASON 4!
We are in Season 6.
Beoridas3 votesthe hell you talking about. its NOT about how many games ive played with her.
-''Because this game is balanced around soloq.Your individual win rate isn't indicator.''
YOU SAID THAT
then ''Your soloq stats are season 4 stats.Are you patient?
are you ok man.
GULAG 4 U4 votesBeing picked doesn't mean op, and you didn't list a SINGLE reason why she would be op. She might be, but with your lack of arguments and pure number tossing, you'll just get downvoted to elohell.
Treune812 votesBeing picked doesn't mean op, and you didn't list a SINGLE reason why she would be op. She might be, but with your lack of arguments and pure number tossing, you'll just get downvoted to elohell.
Being picked means strong champions.Lissandra is very strong and she needs nerf.Because we're saying Riot's rules.60-70% p/b rate nowadays.I don't care downvotes.My target is discussion and true informations.
If Riot nerfs champions according to competitive, Lissandra is the biggest example.
GULAG 4 U4 votesEh dude you still have
No arguments other than numbers
Numbers don't mean everything
Being popular doesn't always mean strong, a kit that can do a lot will be popular even if it's not super good (Lee sin, yasuo, zed etc.)
Treune812 votesEh dude you still have
No arguments other than numbers
Numbers don't mean everything
Being popular doesn't always mean strong, a kit that can do a lot will be popular even if it's not super good (Lee sin, yasuo, zed etc.)
Number means everything.But Riot's double standard changes some things.Being popular means strong champion.Competitive players play strong champions because they want win.They play meta champions if a champion isn't their main champion.
Beoridas5 votesTreune812 voteshttp://www.gosugamers.net/lol/pick-stats
28th in pick and ban. 29th in picks alone.
/thread
That website has old stats! You still show wrong statistics.I showed live stats and true stats.If you look my links, you can see Lissandra's play off stats.
Beoridas4 votesyou do know you can change the settings right?
liss picked 16th in the last week. 7 times. liss 19th in bans in the last week 2 times.
Here is the thing, you are so blinded by your OMG NERFZ NERFZ that you dont even see what you are saying.
Right now, you said, well pick rate is the best indication of the champ strenght because they want to win so they pick it more. While you said that soloq and personal data did AND did not showed the strenght of a champion and its balance state.
Afterwards you gonna say something else?
Treune812 votesyou do know you can change the settings right?
liss picked 16th in the last week. 7 times. liss 19th in bans in the last week 2 times.
Here is the thing, you are so blinded by your OMG NERFZ NERFZ that you dont even see what you are saying.
Right now, you said, well pick rate is the best indication of the champ strenght because they want to win so they pick it more.
Afterwards you gonna say something else?
You secret Lissandra main don't protect your strong champion.Firstly learn this.16th and 19th.High stats.3th or 4th on mid lane.You can not count adc champions because the game has few adc champion.
Meanwhile I'm talking this week but you can not detect.Because you're hypocrite.
Two Lissandra mains defend their strong competitive champion.You don't worry Lissandra will get nerfs.
Beoridas3 voteshttp://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/32182403#ranked-stats
secret liss main...you're a sad individual. last time i played her was a few times last year.
3th? lol. 3rd and 4th high stats where?
Beoridas2 votesfirst , your english is really horrid. its hard to understand you. second. you made three claims, all false that contradicted YOUR own claims. not us. third, we disagree with you cause you dont even seem to know what stats would make her op and you dont even have anything to back your own claims. fourth. just showed you that i main kass mid and play a lot of top and mid. Still your understanding is narrow as hell.
Treune812 votesfirst , your english is really horrid. its hard to understand you. second. you made three claims, all false that contradicted YOUR own claims. not us. third, we disagree with you cause you dont even seem to know what stats would make her op and you dont even have anything to back your own claims. fourth. just showed you that i main kass mid and play a lot of top and mid. Still your understanding is narrow as hell.
Firstly your target is different.Your target isn't discussion.You don't change main topic.
Beoridas2 votesyou are so god damn aggravating its unreal, YOU SAID: ''You secret Lissandra main don't protect your strong champion.''
then ''you're hypocrite.''
like do you even know what hypocrite means? for chirst sake. YOU JUST said :Firstly your target is different.Your target isn't discussion.You don't change main topic.''
and you gonna tell me that bs? plz dude. just get rekt. end of discussion. Ive never seen someone so oblivious to logical and coherent reasonings.
You have literally contradicted yourself 5 times and did the very thing you are blaming others to do while providing 0 stats or facts FROM THE START. im done here.
Treune812 votesyou are so god damn aggravating its unreal, YOU SAID: ''You secret Lissandra main don't protect your strong champion.''
then ''you're hypocrite.''
like do you even know what hypocrite means? for chirst sake. YOU JUST said :Firstly your target is different.Your target isn't discussion.You don't change main topic.''
and you gonna tell me that bs? plz dude. just get rekt. end of discussion. Ive never seen someone so oblivious to logical and coherent reasonings.
You have literally contradicted yourself 5 times and did the very thing you are blaming others to do while providing 0 stats or facts FROM THE START. im done here.
You changed main topic again.You don't write me anymore please.You learn true statistics.
Beoridas2 votes''You secret Lissandra main don't protect your strong champion.'' ''you're hypocrite.'' ''You changed main topic again.'' ''this is balanced around competitive.'' ''Because this game is balanced around soloq'' ''look at my stats'' ''its not about personal data'' ''Riot balances champions according to that season's competitive stats'' ''Because we're saying Riot's rules.60-70% p/b rate nowadays.''
you seriously need medical attention if you cant see the insanity you are spilling around here
Beoridas2 votesok, lets remove adc, still, lissandra has been picked as a top AND mid champ only 7 times in 3 freakin regions for the entire summer tournament. a whopping 25% of ALL games. wanna know a funny part? shes mainly played top to counter gp who is picked in 86% of all games.
Vlad, karma, ekko, gp is more played than her and are played mid AND top aswell. better luck next time kiddo
Treune812 votesok, lets remove adc, still, lissandra has been picked as a top AND mid champ only 7 times in 3 freakin regions for the entire summer tournament. a whopping 25% of ALL games. wanna know a funny part? shes mainly played top to counter gp who is picked in 86% of all games.
Vlad, karma, ekko, gp is more played than her and are played mid AND top aswell. better luck next time kiddo
1- Malzahar 2-Vlad 3-Liss.
Vlad and Malzahar got a lot nerfs but we didn't see Lissandra nerf.Ekko is a top laner.Ekko's problem is Triforce.Gp is a top laner and GP nerfs on PBE.Karma isn't popular pick anymore (after last nerf).
Lissandra is the strongest mid lane pick now.Safe and blind pick.Malzahar and Vlad aren't safe and blind picks because they have very many counterpick but Lissandra's counterpick is few.
Beoridas2 votesless ekko, but specially KARMA and specially gp has been played a CRAP ton midlane. hence the reason they are played now in solo queue.
Treune812 votesless ekko, but specially KARMA and specially gp has been played a CRAP ton midlane. hence the reason they are played now in solo queue.
Karma fall off the meta.Follow PBE notes and patches.Ekko is a top laner.If Ekko deserves nerf, he can get. No problem.But Lissandra deserves nerfs.
Beoridas2 votesyou are probably the most insane fool ive ever seen in here.
you insult us, but we are hypocrites when we go back at you
the discussion is that liss isnt the most picked, not even close, what does current karma has antyhing to do with it?
GULAG 4 U2 votesLooking at stats she has 50.03% winrate. http://champion.gg/champion/Lissandra.
No number don't mean everything, is aatrox op cause that superminion with a giant red sword and redass wings has 52% winrate? no.
also tell me why is she op, not just throwing numbers.
Treune811 votesLooking at stats she has 50.03% winrate. http://champion.gg/champion/Lissandra.
No number don't mean everything, is aatrox op cause that superminion with a giant red sword and redass wings has 52% winrate? no.
also tell me why is she op, not just throwing numbers.
Still same absurd argument.Soloq stats aren't important and decisive.Azir's soloq win rate was 46% but he was strong competitive pick.You haven't true arguments.
GULAG 4 U3 votesAzir is at 40%. Also soloq doesn't even exists anymore. Tell me why is she op, stop throwing numbers.
Treune811 votesAzir is at 40%. Also soloq doesn't even exists anymore. Tell me why is she op, stop throwing numbers.
Because Azir got patch 6.14 nerf.Azir's win rate was 46% before last nerf.If you were following this game you were knowing.Champion gets nerf according to numbers.
Zed, Azir weren't op but they got nerfs because of stats.Azir wasn't op but he got nerf because of competitive stat.Zed wasn't op but he got nerf because his ban rate was 92%.
Yes, Zed isn't strong competitive champion but numbers.
GULAG 4 U2 votes"zed wasn't op"
Yeah, because once zed ults the adc, the adc dies no counterplay. Nothing you can do. 0. poof. You die.
"azir wasn't op but he got nerf"
Your point is bad, just give up. Unless you have legit arguments such as "Liss has low mana costs and can spam" (This is not really true but just an example) "Too much cc" "her ult is a free healing hourglass or point and click stun and that's broken/op"
Unless you've got things like the above to say, your numbers mean jackshit as she's at 50.03.
Treune811 votes"zed wasn't op"
Yeah, because once zed ults the adc, the adc dies no counterplay. Nothing you can do. 0. poof. You die.
"azir wasn't op but he got nerf"
- I ain't going to be a nazi, but fix your god damn grammar.
- "Azir wasn't op" Yeah, because there's almost nothing you can do about a good azir. Also he's hard, that's why he's at 46%. S
Your point is bad, just give up. Unless you have legit arguments such as "Liss has low mana costs and can spam" (This is not really true but just an example) "Too much cc" "her ult is a free healing hourglass or point and click stun and that's broken/op"
Unless you've got things like the above to say, your numbers mean jackshit as she's at 50.03.
Learn different words.Draven is hard but 49% win rate, Cassio is hard but 52% win rate Yasuo is hard but 51% win rate.Your argument is absurd again.Your point is so bad because you're talking champion features.You can not accept strong competitive champion and stats.You're crying because Lissandra is your free elo champion.Because you're saying unimportant soloq stats.Because soloq stats aren't important.Because you're hypocrite because you're liar.Because you're giving old stats.Because you don't know importance of stats.
Champion gets nerf according to competitive stats.You're still saying soloq stats!
GULAG 4 U4 votes"lissandra is my free elo champion"
LOOK AT MY MATCH HISTORY I NEVER PLAYED HER LOL WHAT THE FCK
Beoridas3 voteshttp://www.gosugamers.net/lol/pick-stats
26th win rate in competitive 2016, accross all regions 28th in pick and ban.
its based on YOUR argument thats shes always picked and too strong. thats the proof that ur wrong. period.
GenghisEmo1 votesI think nerfs are inbound for other champs. Lissandra, i have yet to be convinced on it. She use to be really op, now she is more of a safe flex pick and in a relatively healthy state.
Treune811 votesI think nerfs are inbound for other champs. Lissandra, i have yet to be convinced on it. She use to be really op, now she is more of a safe flex pick and in a relatively healthy state.
True.We will see Lissandra much more because she is very rewarding and safe flex pick.
GenghisEmo2 votesAs a result of being a safe flex pick, i think she could get a slight nerf with some equally slight compensation buffs to kind of prevent the flex pick from being too crazy, but, if it happens, it will after worlds.
IF nerfs happen.
Treune811 votesAs a result of being a safe flex pick, i think she could get a slight nerf with some equally slight compensation buffs to kind of prevent the flex pick from being too crazy, but, if it happens, it will after worlds.
IF nerfs happen.
Yes but as a result she deserves nerf.After Worlds or later I don't know but her p/b rate increases and it will increase more.
I think she needs waveclear nerf.