Swain, why is this ignored??

FrickendaChicken··0 votes·993 views

Swain, as he is, is not okay. I want to exactly pinpoint why, so I've come up with a few points.

  1. His kit.) Swain's passive is possibly the only thing that takes skill pre (around) level 8. Meaning if you can farm well with his low auto attack damage, you have infinite mana. But the rest of his kit is simply WAY overloaded.
  • The idea of the Q being on a sort of leash would be okay, if the leash was smaller, was removed after taking damage, or if it didn't have a slow attached. The reason for this being a bad thing is his next ability, which is his Nevermove.
  • The name Nervermove is very appropriate. Comboing your Q into your W ENSURES both hit. Unless the opponent uses a jump, flash, or Movement spell. The problem with that is that your Q is a shorter cooldown than most escapes. Same with your W after getting 2 or more points in it. There is no moving. Nevermove could be fixed if the ability did not root, if it was just a large chunk of damage; and that's it.
  • Swain's E is his second most broken skill, and that's saying something. Doing (at minimum) 8% increased damage TOTAL is not okay. It's a longer dot meaning this decrease in defenses lasts for far too long. Not only does it decrease for Swain, and all his DoTS , it also means his ganks are incredibly strong, either helping with, or running from, as your opponent will take more damage from either you, or the turret, and then they cannot move, and then they die. This is also incredibly bad due to the fact that both Q and E are targeted, DoTS, and one of them slows, causing your W to hit, meaning the whole combo will do even more damage. Please, rethink this entire ability. Building defenses against Swain is almost entirely worthless because of this ONE skill.
  • Finally, Swain's Ultimate. The most overloaded skill in his kit, and possibly on the of the strongest skills in the entirety of the game. Without even Swain having to do anything but Right click. This isn't even a positioning thing, this is a, "you have to be able to stay in range" kind of ability. That is the only requirement. Swain does a lot of damage to 3 targets simultaneously, then the birds that he has sent out to do damage come back and heal him. Each. For a large amount. Send Help. When Swain is ganked by 4 people, and he has at least half mana, he's going to possibly kill 3 of them before even taking half his health because of this ability. And the worst part is, it is targeted FOR YOU. This ability focuses champions, meaning in lane it is MORE free poke, it gives heals, so Swain doesn't have health problems in and out of lane. You cannot be NEAR your minions if you're going to fight him, which probably means you're in his minions, or tower, which isn't smart to be there against anyone, but especially not with 3 targeted abilities and 1 ability that is almost guarenteed to hit. And 2 of them have cc, one of them being a hard cc. (Side note, this ability will still continue even if Swain uses Zhonyas. Send adults.)
  1. My second point, laning phase) You can argue Swain has a weak laning phase, but he simply does not. Due to his aforementioned kit, he can kite, poke, heal, regain mana after skirmishes, outtrade, and is extremely safe. This means he can easily get out of almost any dangerous situation. All Swain has to do is make it to a point where he can start reliably farming, and then his other worst factor begins to show up.

  2. The items) Swain gets a few main items, and each one makes people playing him very sad. Firstly, is RoA, meaning he has MORE health to heal, MORE mana that restores, and the damage should start maxing when he hits his huge power spike, which is his second item. When Swain get's Rylai's Crystal Scepter, there is simply not an escape. Now all abilities slow, one of them slows even more, and-due to his ult-has an infinite slow. Swain should usually get Liandry's, as this causes his DoTS do more damage, and his E causes the Liandry's passive to do even MORE damage. And there is a constant reapplication of this passive, due to his Ultiamate, as well as a permanent slow on his ult.

All in all, Swain's main items, his kit, and laning phase do not belong in this game in it's current state. The current magical items promote Swain's kit to become even better to an extreme. And it is simply not okay. Truthfully I don't know why he isn't played more often, and the only saving grace would be morrelonomicon, and possibly zhonya's, but he could always just wait. But I do think that he isn't played as often because he isn't entirely fun, but if you enjoy being Darius, with more DoTS than burst, you probably like Swain. In fact, I'd rather play Swain than most characters in ranked, simply because of these.

You can't even send adults, because Swain has killed you before you could even scream.

20 Comments

ViashinoWizard2 votes

I can't even tell if this is serious or satire.

FrickendaChicken1 votes

Can you explain why you think it to possibly be satire?

Vaporo17012 votes

Is Swain strong? Yes. Certainly. Is he overpowered? No. Swain has the very clear weakness of having to get close to his target to kill them. If you can dodge his W (which you should be able to) you can avoid literally all of his damage. He wins most raw DPS trades, but he's pretty vulnerable to being kited and bursted, and anyone who can get out of range of his slows quickly. If you can do that, he either has to turn off his ult, giving you a window where you can attack him more freely, or keep his ult on and burn through half his mana bar while he tries to catch up to you. Try fighting Swain with Fizz or Zed. Swain doesn't usually have much of a chance there. Ganks are also pretty hard on Swain. Ask your jungler for help.

FrickendaChicken1 votes

Well here's the thing, Swain has a huge Kite potential, as a good Swain will combo his Q into his W when running from you, or to you, meaning he now has the rest of his damage to deal. And being ganked, especially near mid to late game, he heals more when hitting champs than minions, so surrounding him heals him more. Also, his W is not a short range in comparison to his other abilities. And that allows him to get close, slow you once, then forever, then you die, because he heals over your damage. It takes a lot more than it should to kill a Swain, is all I'm saying. I said he was overloaded. And when I mentioned overpowered, I put that ability against his kit. And unless you have a dash, which I covered, it's hard to get around his W if he puts it right on you, and even if you do, he then has his Q, then the rest of the kit. This is all assuming he has Rylai's at the very least, which is usually his second main item.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

Swain has a 52.2% win rate mid, and 50.1% win rate top.

So I guess he could be a touch strong.

For my own analysis: I agree that Swain has a really strong kit, and this is because he has next to no mobility and is a strong-scaling champion. Most immobile champions get a lot of power to compensate for their lack of mobility.

His kit is such that he'll be hard to beat if you don't know how to play against him. Compound that he's not popular, so most people don't know how to play against him.

If you're not contributing to the damage (e.g. you're the support and you've already blown your cc) you should just leave. The damage dealers don't need you there as an extra source of healing for him.

You really should be getting grievous wounds on him. Ignite or Morello - although I've taken J4 in to him top lane without ignite and beat him fairly easily (his no mobility making my ultimate a death sentence for him).

Otherwise, bully him early, push waves to tower to deny cs as you mentioned he's a poor last hitter and that's his source of mana regen. Stay out of his range. He's a teamfight monster so prefer to look for picks / splitpush unless you're ahead or have good teamfight yourself. Ideally, you want someone that can attack him from outside of his R range.

I'm not even a Swain expert by any means, he's a champion I don't play against very often at all really. I've had the odd bad game against him too so I understand the frustration (if he gets ahead he can 1v3 pretty easily). I think the best solution for Swain is to see him played more so players can learn how to play against him.

FrickendaChicken1 votes

I like your comment and will think on what you have said, but I would like to know what your opinion is on Swain's E. As I explained, he can ignore Magic Resistance with his E alone due to the increase in BASE dmg, and getting any magic pen can make your damage do the equivalent oftrue damage during the about 4 seconds of his E. Split pushing can work, but he just has a huge amount of push himself, and with his Adc, he can protect them, help himself, kite around, and kill people attacking him or his ADC, you just can't pick which one, they're both- together- going to do a lot of damage, and Swain will keep people off the adc with Rylai's and strategic W and Q uses. that leaves 3 people to stop your split pushing. (THIS SITUATION WITH THE ADC IS UNLIKELY BUT VERY POSSIBLE)

ValyrianBlade1 votes

It's damage amplification. Meaning MR is still effective. If you build 50MR you're reducing his damage by 33.3%. At max rank he gets 20% damage amplification. So you reduce his damage from 120% to 80%. That's still useful.

It's just another component of his kit, it gives him power. Thought of differently, it gives him periods of power, but he's immobile (so ignore him when it's active and come back to trade when it's on cooldown - although 10sec CD with 40% CDR is only 6sec and it lasts 4 sec...)

Anyways, I think his E is fine. It makes him a strong fighter if he's fighting on his terms and nearby to you. He should be strong in that case. The idea is to fight him on your terms.

If you're splitting and they send all but Swain and the ADC to get you... well firstly they're not sending much damage so escaping should be reasonably possible (especially if you ward well). Secondly, Swain has some peel but nothing exceptional. Most assassins would have a hay-day in this situation - just dive the ADC. Swain is tankier and heals more, so get the ADC first then collapse on Swain after. He'll have burned so much mana with his R trying to damage you while you attack the ADC that he may need to manage it once the ADC dies and he needs his R to heal.

I'd imagine champions with a silence really wreck him too...

FrickendaChicken1 votes

Well, because nothing Swain does is truly a full channel, but a switch that turns an effect on or off, silence doesn't really do enough as long as he can get 1 or 2 spells off, namely his ultimate. And although Swain CAN have Mana issues, if his team begins to win a fight, he gets a lot of mana back. And, I would like you to name what my terms would be, so I can understand what you mean by that more. As, the way I've felt playing as or playing against, Swain can efficiently make your terms his terms, by using his team as meatshields while he sits in the middle of his team absorbing and dealing damage, applying slows, causing more damage to a primary targets, locking someone down for a second or 2 while his team begins to do the rest. And that's just when he's behind. When he's ahead, he can become part of the frontline in many situations, causing the enemy team to just melt at his feet.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

Your terms would be having your damage dealers attack him from out of range. Your ADC poking from outside of his ult range constantly. Your mid laner entering range to unload their combo then getting out of range until their cooldowns are back. Your tank initiating on him to eat his slow and damage amplification.

Your terms may be splitpushing. Don't group 5v5 for teamfights, he's an AOE monster. Unless you have your own teamfight strong champion (amumu, jinx, orianna, anivia, etc...) you're probably better off sending your strongest duelist to split. Even if Swain is their strongest, he's immobile. If they send him to 1v1 your duelist, your duelist can just leave for free and the remaining 4 take his team without him. If they send someone else, your duelist wins while your team escapes from the immobile Swain.

And again, early ganks and harass in lane to keep him behind, then continuously keep him out of the game. It's the same idea as Vayne. You beat her in lane, shut her out of the game. If you rotate mid and ignore her while she free farms bot for 15min, she's suddenly carrying. You need to continuously shut the weak early game champions down so they're never in the game. It is an efficient use of resources, as 5v4s are easy to win :P

Mathbalnase2 votes

Why is 'this' ignored? Probably because your analysis is so incredibly far off the mark that there really isn't anything to ignore. You just imagined the whole problem.

FrickendaChicken1 votes

Point to exactly where I missed the mark and where imagined the problem and I'll explain it in bigger detail until you prove me wrong, and then I'll accept that I was wrong there.

7ha7guy7771 votes

Well, for one thing his E only boosts his physical/magic damage

FrickendaChicken1 votes

Okay, my bad, I was mistaken there.

Mat7itan2 votes

He isn't played because late game pretty much all of his damage is single target yeah his ult is aoe but it doesn't do very much damage if you build a little mr, he is very easy to gank because he has low mobility, his CC is really unreliable, and he doesn't push waves fast unless he wants to go oom.

FrickendaChicken1 votes

I'm gonna make one small adjustment. Swain is not fun to play against, and his kit is overloaded. When I say "Broken" or "OP", I mean referring to his other abilities, not in whole. It just creates a toxic vibe to face this.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Despite Swain having all this "toxic kit hurr durr durr" or w/e you call it, he still has a very low playrate, only 1.8% at mid & 0.94% at top. Asking to change his abilities around just because you hate it will only make Swain even more forgotten. It's just a rare chance you would ever encounter another Swain main, so I suggest you drop it.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

While I do agree Swain needs a rework, I don't believe it's because he's too strong. Swain, much like Brand and Malz, received a bunch of indirect buffs through the mage items rework. I think all three of those champs are fine where they're at, powerful, but immobile.

The reason Swain needs a rework is because his lore talks about how he's a master technician who's always 5 steps ahead of his opponent but his playstyle is 'Hahahaha eat targeted damage while I morph into a giant monster'.

FrickendaChicken1 votes

That is a valid reason, but being so strong in game to BECAUSE of the lore is not a good enough reason, especially not in a designer's eye. Lore can be easily changed, and won't effect gameplay, which is how people enjoy a game all about the gameplay. And as it stands, the gameplay creates a bad experience for his opponent, and the magic items are what make him too strong. So reworking Swain from that angle in a way that matches the gameplay of the game, THEN changing the lore, even if it is drastically different, because that's how games are experienced, is gameplay. But you do make a good point with the other 2 mages you mentioned, but my focus is on Swain, as Swain has NO skillshots, whereas Brand has 1, and that's his only form of hard CC, and Malzahar's skillshot isn't hard to hit once you know how to hit it, but then, as his opponent, you can use cc cleanses or abilities to move away from his hard cc or W. That's what makes him different, and in my opinion, the worst of the three.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Swain's also the only one without hard cc, and the least damage of the three. I really don't think Swain's as OP as you claim him to be.

Subject 51 votes

"Inserts win rate here, explains why the win rate apparently dictates how strong/weak a champion is."

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