I understand Double Tear was nerfed because Ezreal was too strong. But double tear was also a fun build for other champions like Ryze.
Ryze has a horrible win rate and it's unfortunate that one of his alternate fun builds was nerfed due to Ezreal.
Timethief495 votesRyze´s winrate would be even lower if more people played double tear.
Hammermancer2 votesEzreal, the destroyer of builds
The thigh guy1 votesEzreal, the destroyer of builds
It’s funny because they only every gut an item or him when he leaves botlane. His winrate could be like 47% botlane and 48% midlane and everyone else says “GUT THE ADC REEEEE” same deal when he was in the jungle, litteraly sat on a 49-50% winrate and got gutted because he dared to step out of botlane.
Hammermancer1 votesinb4 he gets 'nerfed' byhaving one of his other abilities deal physical so then the 
two item synergy gets removed from game
The thigh guy1 votesinb4 he gets 'nerfed' byhaving one of his other abilities deal physical so then the
I’d be okay with cleaver being removed. XD fuck that item.
Hammermancer1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VFNf7kRV,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T19:09:35.157+0000)
I’d be okay with cleaver being removed. XD fuck that item.
I honestly don't think it's so bad, Just kinda think it should be a base damage amp instead of physical armor shred so that adcs can't abuse it but champs that it was designed for could still use it
and honestly cleaver is actually so important on lucian, but he could be made to be a base damage champ anyways and noone would really bat an eye so meh
The thigh guy1 votesI honestly don't think it's so bad, Just kinda think it should be a base damage amp instead of physical armor shred so that adcs can't abuse it but champs that it was designed for could still use it
and honestly cleaver is actually so important on lucian, but he could be made to be a base damage champ anyways and noone would really bat an eye so meh
I just hate that it’s in every single game by default almost. And it’s part of the reason tanks are borderline unplayable.
Hammermancer1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VFNf7kRV,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T19:23:30.032+0000)
I just hate that it’s in every single game by default almost. And it’s part of the reason tanks are borderline unplayable.
The thigh guy1 votesDifference being Zhonya and infinty edge aren’t making an entire class irrelevant.
Hammermancer1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VFNf7kRV,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T20:25:22.919+0000)
Difference being Zhonya and infinty edge aren’t making an entire class irrelevant.
zhonyas really does kick assassins in the nuts to be honest
and cleaver has low AD considering so you're supposed to stack some HP against it. plus the lack of cleaver makes an entire class irrelevant. I think conq is the bigger issue in this case though for tanks, that and tanks generally being fairly outdated in concept. The class needs a fat update to get them up to par with all the super skill spam stuff going on without them just being stunbots. There are tanks that are definitely more interesting that cleaver doesn't negate the value of, such as 
, and in other roles you have 
who also aren't completely destroyed by the idea of a single item due to them having the tools in their kits to deal with that armor shred.
The thigh guy1 voteszhonyas really does kick assassins in the nuts to be honest
and cleaver has low AD considering so you're supposed to stack some HP against it. plus the lack of cleaver makes an entire class irrelevant. I think conq is the bigger issue in this case though for tanks, that and tanks generally being fairly outdated in concept. The class needs a fat update to get them up to par with all the super skill spam stuff going on without them just being stunbots. There are tanks that are definitely more interesting that cleaver doesn't negate the value of, such as
While Zhonya does slow assassins down, it’s gated by a 2 minute cooldown, and it just isn’t a good first buy.
Cleaver is so oppressive paired with conquerer because 10% is being converted to true damage, then 24% of your armor is just being torn off. That’s ALOT of effective hp just gone. And you can’t just stack hp, because stacking hp alone doesn’t work. It has to be backed with resistances to be even slightly good.
Hammermancer1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VFNf7kRV,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T21:05:06.048+0000)
While Zhonya does slow assassins down, it’s gated by a 2 minute cooldown, and it just isn’t a good first buy.
Cleaver is so oppressive paired with conquerer because 10% is being converted to true damage, then 24% of your armor is just being torn off. That’s ALOT of effective hp just gone. And you can’t just stack hp, because stacking hp alone doesn’t work. It has to be backed with resistances to be even slightly good.
I understand that the combination is way too strong, but speaking from experience of past metas, without B.C. many top laners would be unable to deal with tanks, whereas conq is just horse shit for tanks, I think cleaver is fine because the tanks can still manage it saying "ok 25% armor debuff from my lane opponent" a damage class without the ability to deal damage is just as useless as a tank who can't tank, so there has to be a medium, I've seen multiple tank metas where cleaver was not only available but also not overbearing. Since conq came out i haven't seen a single tank meta
The thigh guy1 votesI understand that the combination is way too strong, but speaking from experience of past metas, without B.C. many top laners would be unable to deal with tanks, whereas conq is just horse shit for tanks, I think cleaver is fine because the tanks can still manage it saying "ok 25% armor debuff from my lane opponent" a damage class without the ability to deal damage is just as useless as a tank who can't tank, so there has to be a medium, I've seen multiple tank metas where cleaver was not only available but also not overbearing. Since conq came out i haven't seen a single tank meta
Honestly. I don’t see a conquerer fix that keeps a true damage conversion. There just isn’t one.
As for black cleaver, I say all % pen should be changed to %bonus pen. Then your bases aren’t being torn to shreds letting everyone do near true damage to you anyways.
Hammermancer1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VFNf7kRV,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-08T21:32:54.808+0000)
Honestly. I don’t see a conquerer fix that keeps a true damage conversion. There just isn’t one.
As for black cleaver, I say all % pen should be changed to %bonus pen. Then your bases aren’t being torn to shreds letting everyone do near true damage to you anyways.
so like you'd have base armor and bonus armor, and the cleaver would only go into bonus armor? And abilities like Tarics W would increase base armor to really nail in the tankiness?
The thigh guy1 votesso like you'd have base armor and bonus armor, and the cleaver would only go into bonus armor? And abilities like Tarics W would increase base armor to really nail in the tankiness?
I didn’t know taric’s w have base armor increase. But any outside sources count as bonus armor. So if you get max stacks of cleaver on someone with no bonus armor, it won’t do anything, but if you get 5 stacks on someone who built say, Thornmail, you reduce the 90 armor from thornmail by 24%.
Frosted Tips1 votesRyze double tear build was nerfed long before this. It has not been an off build in over a year.
facemelter7101 votesThis is the 2nd or 3rd time an item was killed because of ezreal. Remember runeglaive. An actual good ap jg item. Rip. Thanks mid smite ezreal.
Its All Skillzz1 votesThis is the 2nd or 3rd time an item was killed because of ezreal. Remember runeglaive. An actual good ap jg item. Rip. Thanks mid smite ezreal.
the item also did not benefit anyone else who jungled. fiddle and other ap junglers didnt use or need it, while nidalee/eve/diana were all broken and im pretty sure there was a few ap yasuos abusing it because it turned his Q into magic damage that crit.
Stars Shaper1 votesBoth Ezreal and Ryze deserve any nerf they get and yet Riot refuses to fix what makes them problematic.
(Is it a coincidence that both of them are named after some Riot ppl?)
