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How can we make Yasuos Windwall and Braums Unbreakable BALANACED ?!

PokladnicaZla··4 votes·768 views

Hello fellow summoners :))

So from the time Yasuo and Braum have released,they have seen to be pick or ban champions.The most obnoxius problems is that they broke many ranged assults (im well aware that Yasuo has more problems then just his W mehcanic,but that is off-topic in this thread.) The core mechanic should exist to counter ranged attacks,but not in their current form.

1.YASUO As melee champions with a weak early game,he needs a defensive mechanic,but why does his mechanic hava the ability to defend his entire team instead of himself?! In the Yasuo REDDIT,a RIOTer stated that they came up with the idea for his W,from movies where samurais seems to cut incoming bullet/ranged attacks.Im sure many of you guys saw this in action movies and cartoons/anime(this is really often in it). So why does it have a 3.75 duration?Why not make it 1 sec duration,? And if that seems UP,why not make it that his CD gets lower with every projectile he blockes?

2.BRAUM So what is the most furstraiting thing about a projectile-moving wall? Braum E doesnt have the 100% projetilc block,but makes that up with being able to move it. But for me the most annoying thing about is that it blockes Ultimate abilities. A reasonable nerf would after the first 100%block,all ultimate ability apply 50% of their damage to him and 100%of the CC. This should make think more about if he will just spam w+E or leave it when he will need them.

Pls note that this isnt a QQ thread about this mechanic,but rather a discussion about how to make appealing,but also balanced for the enemy team.Share your opinion,ideas and feedback.

EDIT:Its funny how people downvote me,but im sure that not even 50% of them reply with a meaningful sentence that proves my opinion/statement wrong.

25 Comments

Eapenator2 votes

I definitely agree with changing these abilities that Instantly nullify an ability. It has nothing to do with QQ'ing. It feels completely shit when the enemy Yasuo just throws a wall up and negates anything that hits for 4 seconds with zero repercussions. When I face a Yasuo, I don't exclaim 'wow he completely out played me by pressing a button to negate my whole combo'.

I value yasuo for his skill to dash through minions and close the gap. To land clutch ultimates with his team. When he dashes to actually dodge my combo, that is when I feel out played, or when he throws his q and predicts where I am going to dodge to, and I get hit by it. That is my fault. I accept that. The enemy Yasuo is more skilled then me. But throwing up a wall when he closes the gap, and stands in the middle of it so I can even hit him sometimes, is not fun, skillful, or particularly hard to do. When you are team fighting in the jungle, and Yasuo walls off the jungle path with your mid and adc , they have no counter play available to them. Either walk through the wall into melee range and die, or stay behind, wait four 4 seconds, and your team dies.

Braum at least takes damage for his efforts, as well as functioning as a unique tank that is able to funnel damage from the enemy team into himself. He has to position him self properly so he can be the most beneficial. He puts him self at risk. While I do agree that Braum gets a little too tanky too early with minimal items, I don't think his funnelling damage mechanic is the problem, and in fact it is what makes him unique because unlike other tanks riot creates where they get pressure through their damage, (and therefore have to focus him), Braum is able to draw damage from his team to himself without being a threat. And this is coming from someone who doesn't own Braum, and plays against them all the time.

Lneacx1 votes

Yasuo gets great teamfight utility through Wind Wall because Riot wants a melee carry who prefers teamfighting, rather than splitpushing like Master Yi / Tryndamere. A 3.75 >> 1 second duration reduction on Wind Wall is a huge nerf to his utility that will need to be compensated with power elsewhere (assuming Yasuo is roughly balanced otherwise).

Not sure I understand the change you're suggesting to Braum's interaction with ultimates.

PokladnicaZla2 votes

Yasuo currently has too much in his kit.

AoE assassins R,mobility,high burst,free buff/steroides and a wall that makes APCs and ADCs useless in fights(plus a few other/nearly all roles).

Balanced,eh?

Lneacx1 votes

When you list everything a champion has in their kit, every one can sound OP. Do you think that Yasuo doesn't deserve a compensation buff?

>> Also, can you rephrase what you suggested for Braum?

PokladnicaZla1 votes

What kind of compesation buff for a champion that can go 0/6 in lane and later carry when someone gets knocked up?

The Braum nerf i suggested might be my bad,becasue of miss-information.

12tales1 votes

I don't really see Yasuo or Braum as balance concerns right now. Don't really see why they need to be nerfed further.

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

braum is op cause he is the only tank that you cant realy ignore, he exists so he tanks all the damage which makes him unable to realy fail his job

yasuo on the other hand scales insanely good with skill of the player and the lack of such skill from his opponents meaning that he outdamages everyone outruns everyone and is able to put an obligatory blocking wall that his team uses

the oly concern with braum is his passive duration, he taps you with aa and q, and bam you are blocked from entering the fight cause you will get stunned and killed, if he can be such an insane tank dont make him so insane at zoning ppl out

on the other hand yasuo's kit is just overloaded with unreliable stuff, this unreliability is accounted which means that when used to the max he does more than others, so his kit is being slowly cut to the point where his tools wont do what they are supposed to do (his shield is a perfect example atm, it was SUPPOSED to block burst dmg, right now when someone bursts you the shield will deactivate faster than it will break meaning that you get bursted without shield)

12tales3 votes

Tanks that you can ignore are bad tanks. Either it's Braum and Maokai eating your team's damage, or it's Amumu and Leona just dumping CC on everyone, or it's Mundo mundoing all over your ADC. Braum is a functional tank - that doesn't make him OP. Especially after his most recent set of nerfs, he's a solid teamfighting support with limited laning and mediocre playmaking potential. He's nowhere near being the best support, let alone a balance concern.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

Braum is a functional tank - that doesn't make him OP

explains the banrate he does the tanks job without actualy doing the tanks job which means that he does much more than any tank in the league als owhat kind of counterplay he has ? he taps you and any interaction with enemy results in death, and he does not even need to get close to you

nobody would ban him if he wouldnt be so hard to deal with (harder than other tanks)

He's nowhere near being the best support,

ofc he cant be the best because we have counterpicks but a well played braum can make good plays

12tales2 votes

he does the tanks job without actualy doing the tanks job which means that he does much more than any tank in the league als owhat kind of counterplay he has ? he taps you and any interaction with enemy results in death, and he does not even need to get close to you

...not really? Other tanks variously have better CC, better peel, better death denial.

Also, if you're asking what sort of counterplay a melee champion with effectively three skillshots, nonexistent aggressive mobility and exclusively delayed CC has, you might want to rethink your definition of the word.

nobody would ban him if he wouldnt be so hard to deal with (harder than other tanks)

Talon, Gnar and Rengar are currently in the top 10 most banned champions in solo queue.

OP as shit, amirite?

Braum's suffering from the same residual hype that kept Kayle and Jax banned so often after they were gutted. Give him time.

but a well played braum can make good plays

I don't really see this as an issue.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Talon,Gnar and Rengar arent tanks(not even close).

Besides that i alredy posted,highest champions banrates by LOLKING Braum&Yasuo have much higher banrates(much much higher).

Im not saying they are OP,but champions that have such a high banrate should be locked at. LIKE: Are they balanced? What are the player feedbacks on them? Is that reallly OP?Or just harder to counter? Should be shift the power of this ability into this? Is this too much and should we nerfed it or just remove it?

There are possibilties to nerf a champions which would make him more playble and enjoyable for both teams.

12tales3 votes

Talon,Gnar and Rengar arent tanks(not even close).

...Relevance?

Im not saying they are OP,but champions that have such a high banrate should be locked at.

Making a thread literally called "How can we make Yasuos Windwall and Braums Unbreakable BALANACED ?!" isn't functionally different from saying that Yasuo and Braum are unbalanced.

Anyways, I already said why I think their banrates are so high - people underestimate the magnitude of nerfs and keep on banning the shit that was OP a week ago. The same thing happens when most dominant champions get hit - nobody wants to be the person to discover X Y or Z champion is still OP, so they don't risk letting the champ through and maybe finding out that they're balanced.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Well you said that Gnar,Rengar and Talon have high banrates and you implaied that they arent OP(which i disagree in Talons and Rengars caseRengars late game is still OP and Talon even thought he is consideret weak has low counter play).

Tell me how again were Braum and Yasuo nerfed?Many people expressed their opinions on which abilities should be adressed,but they both recived minor nerfs,that really didnt touch their core problem->The ability to block projectils.

12tales1 votes

Tell me how again were Braum and Yasuo nerfed?Many people expressed their opinions on which abilities should be adressed,but they both recived minor nerfs,that really didnt touch their core problem->The ability to block projectils.

[4.9], [4.11], [4.13]

In total, Yasuo has had his Passive duration, Q cooldown, W Passive and E Damage nerfed, while Braum has had his Passive damage, Passive duration, Q Damage, W Base Values, W Scaling, W Mana Cost, R Knockup duration, R Slow duration, and R slow intensity nerfed. And that's just the past two or so months.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

So,lets see...

Braum....He was broken on release,this were nerfs to balance him out.

I dont see the nerfs on Yasuo. Shield duratio nerf,shield still can block the same amount of damage. E nerf,well it doesnt really have CD and it can be casted infinetly.

The community still doesnt think that those nerfs were enough. Yasuo is still OP,with low counterplay. Braums Q needs the animation and hitbox synergized,this si still a problem.

Eapenator1 votes

I think you mean Yasuo's W has no counter play. The rest of his kit is good. His W should either be reduced, so you actually think about which part of the enemies combo you want to block, other than just casting it up pre-emptively with out forethought, just for safety.

They could easily just remove the armour pen from his ultimate passive and add it as the new ability to his w (call it focus or whatever, passively increases flow rate, and armor pen for each level) and he would be just as strong, fun and have the same play style, but give the opponent options.

Yasuo already has a shield and can dodge skill shots with his E. He scales amazingly well into the late game, and has decent range and pressure. Not to mention his ultimate can improve the cc of your allies knock ups as well. He doesn't need his wall.

Braum on the other hand, actually pays for the wall with having to position it, puts him self at risk, and he still takes damage from spell, and he has no damage. Typically, tanks would draw fire to themselves through pressure from damage and cc, but since braum naturally does this through his kit, they cut his damage across the board.

Braum only has a high win rate because can be very effective even if he is bad. However, bad braum are garbage against good opponents, and good braums are even with evenly matched opponents. The only reason he is picked alot is because he is very very forgiving, and has mobility.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Thanks for the replay mate.

Agree with you on Braum(still the Q hitbox/animations needs to be adjustet).

Yasuo has just too much in his kit,its overloaded.But his W is the most frustraiting thing in it.

12tales1 votes

Braum....He was broken on release,this were nerfs to balance him out.

And now he's balanced.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Just because a champions recived nerfs doesnt mean that he is balanced.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

Also, if you're asking what sort of counterplay a melee champion with effectively three skillshots, nonexistent aggressive mobility and exclusively delayed CC has, you might want to rethink your definition of the word.

MEELE TANK not meele champion meele assasin would literaly cry but meele tank who can just force others to hit him by simply existing does everything he wants and braum has couple more tools up his sleve like mobility which is especialy made to allow him to use his main trait, cc which does not require him to stop tanking and can be trigered by his ranged allies and his ult

Talon, Gnar and Rengar are currently in the top 10 most banned champions in solo queue.

while braum and yasuo are top 2 most banned champions in solo queue with maokai launching to the top cause rito is going fuill retard with their latest reworks (its too opressive so we will make it even stronger every rioter thought)

but a well played braum can make good plays

I don't really see this as an issue.

because i wrote it wrong on lane braum who played maybe 10 games with his champ is able to 100% effectively block every engage on his carry and even turn some around

Sunfield1 votes

Which one is pick or ban exacly? And in what games? I dont remember the last time I saw them banned or picked. Magic

PokladnicaZla2 votes

You havent been playng enough,ey?

Highest banned champions by LOLKING ,in SoloQ in all divisions.

                                  YASUO

1.All servers -Highest banrate(nearly 70%)

2.NA -4.highest (over 50%)

3.EUW - CURRENTLY UNAVILABLE

4.EUNE -Highest (over 70%)

5.BRAZIL -Highest (nearly 90%)

                                BRAUM

1,All servers -2.highest (around 60%)

2.NA -3.highest(over 50%)

3.EUQ - CURRENTLY UNAVILABLE

4.EUNE -3.hgihest (over 60%)

5.BRAZIL -2.highest (over 60%)

Now,banrates arent always(but are often) an indicators on which champions is OP.Having such banrates on nearly every server,indicates that there isnt something about them that is either OP,annoying or low counters play.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

completely agree here...they nerfed Kassadin to resemble a minion only becaus his banrate had always been very high while his winrate had been roughly around 50%. So if the high banrate indicated a massive problem for Kassadin, it does so aswell for Yasuo.

PokladnicaZla1 votes

Yeah,but Kassadin was a bad desinged champion.

I red through some old artivels from LOL,at some point,RIOT wanted to remove flash from the game(gladd they didnt),but they gave Kass a 12 sec R(better then flash).

Also RIOT finnaly got the idea that silences on high mobility/ranged/AP assassins were a bad idea.

Earl Eulrich1 votes
  • Braum: have the -%dmg taken as a passive that won´t work aslong as his e is active, so you can focus him down while he stands there and blocks for his carries +allow him to cancel his e early (though the cd will only start after it´s full duration passed)
  • Yasuo: make it really short, so it´s soly reactive (0,5-1sec at max). Currently it´s just the single best ability to zone an ADC away from the fight on a Champ that can slaughter a fulltank during the 3sec hiding behind the wall all by himself.

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