Jannas Winrate will NEVER drop as long as ADCs are as OP as they are.

Raoul·Aug 30, 2017·115 votes·9,704 views

Well, unless you nerf her so hard she becomes literally useless.

Janna is the only support specificly designed around supporting the ADC, as long as shes viable and has that one job, she will always have the top winrate, until the game is not decided by who has the strongest ADC any more.

And ADC with a Janna behind him will always be stronger than an ADC without a Janna behind him, because making the ADC stronger is her one job.

156 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirAug 30, 201737 votes

Well, unless you nerf her so hard she becomes literally useless.

I'm currently exploring some Janna changes that aim to increase the viability of her offensive outputs so that her defensive ones can be toned back a bit. The hypothesis is that by improving her offensive potency and playmaking potential, she won't need to be so supremely good at being a shield/peel bot for her ADC. Interested to see how it plays out.

Oh, and the changes we're testing now doesn't look very similar to the one that was talked about a few weeks ago, for what that's worth.

Mens Hair ClubAug 30, 201720 votes

i don't think you need to make her an offensive champion, just give her more interesting ways to peel than a guaranteed pushback with R and a targeted 3 second slow.

or at least not direct offense, but maybe things like charged tornadoes applying her passive MS to allies who walk in its path

KONO RUBICK DAAug 30, 20176 votes

i'm sorry but as a former janna main i dropped her because she was too dependant on the adc

she can't do anything on her own, janna's entire offensive power is increasing her adc ad, which is boring and does not depend on janna's power Q and R are both weak if used offensively W is meh as everyone maxes shield now

if repertoir is able to make her offensive power independant from her adc it would be fun, and i would play janna again

i wouldn't mind her defensive power being nerfed tbh, staying 800 range away and shielding people is boring

Mens Hair ClubAug 30, 201712 votes

you're literally a former main of every champion in the game at this point lol

I'm not saying Janna SHOULDN'T have some offense, but her whole shtick is primarily being a defensive powerhouse. I'd like them to make the main reason to play her (being the queen of peel) to be a lot more engaging for the Janna and more fair for bruisers and assassins first, and THEN build off of that foundation to give her some offensive power.

MordepoolAug 30, 20172 votes

When you have been around for a long time that's how it goes

RiotRiotRepertoirAug 30, 201720 votes

I think she'd have a long way to go from being what she is now to being an offensive champion. She could hypothetically be significantly more offensive than she is now and still be ~75% defensive in nature or something.

rtbf225618241Aug 30, 20174 votes

In other words: She should not be balanced around damage. She's not meant to be a damage dealer although she can deal some damage given an AP build which i find disgusting thinking of.

4th3t0sAug 31, 20173 votes

{quoted}

she can deal some damage given an AP build which i find disgusting thinking of.

Yeah no, not since the season 2 gutting that put her exclusively in the support role.

Mens Hair ClubAug 31, 20176 votes

every champion should have the capability to deal damage, especially if they build for it

InfernapeAug 31, 20172 votes

Looks at Ornn.

rtbf225618241Aug 31, 20172 votes

Yes but not every champion should be balanced around dealing damage is what i'm saying in this case.

PureSilvrrAug 31, 20172 votes

Can we add more interactivity with her w, its pretty much a cast once a game if you need a quick slow because they somehow got past your ult and q type of spell. I had an idea once that using her W could redirect her tornados mid flight. Just something unique would help there. Then again w is the most aggressive part of her kit right now.

RaoulAug 30, 20172 votes

Wow, a red post in my discussions, i feel honored in a way^^

But as long as you keep the bous AD on her shield, wont the problem remain, no matter how offensive you make her? I mean you have to admit that games are won or lost by the Marksmen dmg output way more often than not, no? So improving that damage output will always lead to top winrates...

SkorchAug 31, 20173 votes

The main problem with Janna is how much she can protect her ADC, not boost their damage. The AD on the shield isnt the problem, its the fact it has a relatively low cooldown and a decent size actual shield.

What im assuming their doing is changing Qs mana or charge/speed potential so that she can use it for engage instead of only peel. Maybe change the slow/damage from her W to slightly more offense.

This is so that they can nerf Jannas shield health/cooldown so that Jannas gameplay doesnt solely rely on how well she can permanently protect the ADC.

IpressbuttonAug 30, 20173 votes

Nerf her shield bring back charged tornado clearing waves. Make AP janna mid a thing again!!

Linna ExcelAug 31, 20171 votes

Not to be overly trite, but considering riot doesn't want AP Janna to be a thing, how does one increase the offensive outputs of one of the most defensive champs in the game?

Please don't say buffing item 3504 . ;)

PureSilvrrAug 31, 20179 votes

Ardent wasn't broken in the first place, nerfing it was just a bandaid fix

Think about this, was ardent broken ANY TIME before this? because it had the exact same stats, but it just became broken now

RiotAD YuumiAug 31, 20175 votes

There's a lot of ways to make a champion offensive without giving them raw damage. It's all about making acts of aggression have rewarding/powerful results. As an example, a few years ago Janna's tornado had longer range at lower charge times. This made it so she could W-Q someone in lane and reliably get the knockup, enabling more offensive plays in lane.

SaiannaAug 31, 201710 votes

or... Just nerf ADCs..?

I'm waiting like 6th year for ADCs to lose their VIP status.

Just nerf those @#$%^ already.

ForeverLaxxAug 31, 20173 votes

Was watching a friend of mine play a Sona game, and he frequently goes Lichbane on her. I got to see the enemy Caitlyn complain that "a support shouldn't delete a carry" even though he'd only take at most half of her health. She just kept backing off and letting him build Sona's passive until low enough to die to an Ult + Q + Auto/Thunderlords/Lichbane.

Ranged carry mains seem intent on maintaining their role of "most important person on the team" with their ranged assassin drain-tank playstyles. They get to feel strong and important, and we're just supposed to accept it.

It doesn't help that games are too short and Riot goes out of their way to make sure someone getting shut down in the lane isn't shut out of the game.

Yordle XayahAug 31, 20172 votes

So wait... a support champion that's designed to be defensive is being looked into dealing damage/being offensive cause you guys don't know how to make her balanced as a shield/peel champion?? That's the only way you seem to be able to fix champions... make em deal more damage.

Then you wonder why some of us think you have no idea what you're doing with the game.

RozzetaAug 31, 20175 votes

If Queen of Peel Janna ends up having more offensive viability that Sona, a champion with no Hard CC other than ult and whose offensive powers are constantly nerfed, I'll seriously get pissed.

CrisisEchoesAug 30, 201711 votes

Jannas kit revolves around her opponents being potato af. Just kill her and move on. If she shields herself kill her adc and move on. Its that simple. really it is. Bonus points if you lock champs with displacements so you can just insta cancel her ult

Yara0Aug 30, 201710 votes

Jannas winrate wont drop Period shes always an amazing pick if not the best pick. if shes gonna be amazing no matter what unless her kit is nerfed super hard. if shes gonna always be the best at least update her model riot.

SolitairAug 31, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Jannas winrate wont drop Period shes always an amazing pick if not the best pick. if shes gonna be amazing no matter what unless her kit is nerfed super hard. if shes gonna always be the best at least update her model riot.

That tooka completely different direction than i expected

ThefrostyvikingAug 30, 20179 votes

Good sir OP, are you aware of the marksmen's damage and survival conditions? I shall remind you for the sake of discussion.

They must not have someone standing ontop of them and they must not take too much damage, preferably they must also not be CC'ed.

Now i ask, what exactly is Janna as specialist at doing? Shields to prevent damage and boost the marksmans damage, heals, to keep the healbar up in the green, a knockback to prevent engages, and a knockup to disrupt any and nearly all attacks.

She has everything marksmen need of a support to succeed, the peeling, the healing, the shielding and the CC'ing.

Even a garbage marksman that knows what to build and how to move around can succeed with a good janna protecting them.

Assassins are negated, divers are nearly all negated (except those with unstoppable abilties) mages are severely reduced in terms of effectiveness and tanks are prevented from gapclosing on the marksman.

All this done by Janna, she reduces the threat lvl of a enemy team towards her marksman extremely well just by default.

Why? Because she covers all the weaknesses of the class, lack of mobility, lack of durability, lack of self peel and lack of dive prevention.

It's not that Janna will always be good as long as marksmen are, rather, marksmen will always be good as long as Janna is.

This is what we call carrying.

RaoulAug 30, 201712 votes

Then why exactly isnt Lulu right there on top with Janna?

If the reason you listed were responsible for Jannas high winrate, Lulu should be there too, since she does all these things as well and as good as Janna.

ThefrostyvikingAug 30, 20177 votes

Janna is superior in terms of forcing multiple people to back of and her movespeed is higher and range is better.

In short, lulu is much easier to bully in lane or catch out later on.

Range makes a huge difference, as does the need to act for success, Janna doesn't actually have to stress anything in particular whilst lulu needs to run around.

Then the difference in abilties, janna doesn't need to stay around to deal damage, she just uses E on her marksman, then looks to land her Q and ulting whenever it's opportune, doing those are basically her win conditions and she can do it from fairly high away.

Lulu has to land her shorter and slower Q, go in range for her W and her ultimate loses in terms of effectiveness vs janna's. She might also need to go in range for auto attacks to help her marksman break through janna's shield before the difference in AD causes too much damage.

Janna has fewer and easier win conditions, that's why it´s kinda hard to fail playing her, because you hardly have to exert yourself until the enemy divers or assassins try something.

Altho i would say that Lulu is potentially more rewarding she is also a higher risk to play, but that's why her winrates remain lower.

Kinda like a debate on which midlaner is better, Ori or Syndra, Syndra is great when wanting to smash lane and snowball but ori just needs to hang on and she´ll be tremendously useful just by her basic toolkit. Thus you´d call Ori more useful in general.

I suck at JhinAug 30, 20172 votes

Lulu can't push away whole enemy team at once, she can't even push it away at all, all she has is slows, polymorph and very conditional long cooldown knockup. She can't heal her whole team either, also she isn't as mobile as janna is, neither she increases her whole team's speed.

ninjaroxasAug 30, 20171 votes

"Moblie"

I suck at JhinAug 30, 20171 votes

Dyslexia much? It's clearly written "mobile".

ninjaroxasAug 30, 20171 votes

Wtf? What does me sarcastically Typeing mobile have to do with dyslexia

parrot6632Aug 30, 20174 votes

look carefully at your original spelling

Spank the FoxAug 30, 20173 votes

That's the thing though; Lulu should be up there with Janna if ADCs are just that strong.

Lulu has a kit that would even make a Kog'Maw one naked banana, yet she isn't up there with Janna.

Could it be that Janna is actually too safe for the entire team compared to the little effort she needs to put in? Beyond her AD steriod on E, Janna doesn't do any more for the ADC than Lulu, Thresh, Braum etc in regards to making it a bitch to reach the ADC.

KaygeAug 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Good sir OP, are you aware of the marksmen's damage and survival conditions? I shall remind you for the sake of discussion.

They must not have someone standing ontop of them and they must not take too much damage, preferably they must also not be CC'ed.

Now i ask, what exactly is Janna as specialist at doing? Shields to prevent damage and boost the marksmans damage, heals, to keep the healbar up in the green, a knockback to prevent engages, and a knockup to disrupt any and nearly all attacks.

She has everything marksmen need of a support to succeed, the peeling, the healing, the shielding and the CC'ing.

Even a garbage marksman that knows what to build and how to move around can succeed with a good janna protecting them.

Assassins are negated, divers are nearly all negated (except those with unstoppable abilties) mages are severely reduced in terms of effectiveness and tanks are prevented from gapclosing on the marksman.

All this done by Janna, she reduces the threat lvl of a enemy team towards her marksman extremely well just by default.

Why? Because she covers all the weaknesses of the class, lack of mobility, lack of durability, lack of self peel and lack of dive prevention.

It's not that Janna will always be good as long as marksmen are, rather, marksmen will always be good as long as Janna is.

This is what we call carrying.

XD. Thank you my dude. As and ADC main I find it hard to argue my point that adc`s arent OP. This is awesome

ThefrostyvikingAug 30, 20171 votes

Some marksmen can actually be called OP, there is probably no mistaking that.

Twitch and his ultimate, Draven and his Q and Tristana with her godly scaling.

The items they use item 3087 item 3094 item 3812 +warlord keystone.

The syngergies are a bit too potent, effects are too potent and champs themselves are a bit too good.

Result? They're probably OP with all these things together.

KaygeAug 31, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Some marksmen can actually be called OP, there is probably no mistaking that.

and his ultimate, and his Q and with her godly scaling.

The items they use +warlord keystone.

The syngergies are a bit too potent, effects are too potent and champs themselves are a bit too good.

Result? They're probably OP with all these things together.

Aight I can agree with that. But thats not ADCs in general. Thats certain champions. Riot needs to tune those champions, I wont deny it. I hate playing against twitch and draven especially . But the people that just whine about adcs being op need to play the role. I feel pathetic half my games because some big ass tank or bruiser get onto me and I just die

ThefrostyvikingAug 31, 20172 votes

My issue´s exactly when i play marksman, if my support is just slightly off point or if enemies flash to get on me i die ever so fast feeling rather useless.'

Meanwhile the circlejerkers make Ashe sound like she´s a 12 foot tall monster carrying a machinegun that instakills anything that goes in range.

Oh and she´s just slightly less tanky than Sejuani while healing more than Vladimir and Swain combined.

I´ve seen a lot of this stuff x)

CrisisEchoesAug 30, 20173 votes

If you want to make janna more balanced, raise the cooldown on her e at early ranks to 8-10 seconds, and have it go down to 5 seconds at lvl 5. Give people an actual window to fight during early laning phase. (you know, when shes supposed to be weak)

Make her actually have to make decisions during the laning phase instead of using e to block every single harass thrown lmao.

FDS DesperadoAug 30, 201718 votes

New Item: FuckJanna 25 AD 25 Armor Active: Target enemy champion is afflicted by a JannaFucking. If they currently have a shield, that shield is removed and that champion takes 25% of the shield as magic damage.

Another way around mindless shield batteries - Looking at you Janna and Lulu.

koshkyraAug 30, 20179 votes

People wouldnt think about shielding when they hear "JannaFucking"

FDS DesperadoAug 30, 20176 votes

Hard to think about anything when you hear JannaFucking

The Yetii RiderAug 30, 20177 votes

Janna "Yes it's true...for only 2.99 a minute, I will leave you...breathless."

ChaosThiefAug 30, 20175 votes

Isn't it 2.95 a minute?

Spice POWAHAug 30, 20173 votes

It is

KarfussAug 30, 20171 votes

Actually, you may be onto something there.

A shield and healing null zone could be an interesting assassin active item, or a new assassin ability.

FDS DesperadoAug 30, 20173 votes

I was thinking about for bruisers or divers or junglers potentially. Like a tank item, that way ADCs cant abuse it.

PokladnicaZlaAug 30, 20172 votes

I know I might get down voted for this,but what Janna really needs is a rework to her R. It's too reliant.If it were a skillshoot with similar effect she might not feels annoying for melee's to face.