Remove spear of Shojin

TheBrothersGrymm·Mar 5, 2019·91 votes·20,061 views

oh SoS is way to strong on jax and rene and illaoi and riven, perma counterstrike on jax, so you cant auto him and he takes 50% less from aoe the whole time, riven just spams her allready spammable spells, same with rene, illaoi just you know does hentai stuff, but real talk with new conq and SOS the game is over when they get it cuz they proc conq so fast, i mean that unique passive shouldnt even be in the game, they wonder why bruisers are doing well atm, new conq and SOS i mean old conq was better but this one heals

58 Comments

ChrisBrownzeMar 5, 201940 votes

Riot is blind to the obvious

SaiannaMar 5, 20191 votes

As if. They expected this (maybe minus jax counterstike). I do not believe someone THAT incompetent would work on creating/balancing new items in LOL.

Psychø ßetaMar 5, 20192 votes

Then believe it. They are incompetent. They fuck up in every season.

SaiannaMar 5, 20191 votes

I know they are incompetent, but this would be like on whole new leve..... Oh wait.. I remembered feral flare, nvm that's their usual lvl of incompetency

SuicidePlankMar 5, 201919 votes

No, Riven gets skins sold and as you could see when Firecracker Vayne was released with her buff, that's how they balance. There would definitely be less Riven Players once she gets a big nerf, so probably another placebo nerf like the -5 MS Irelia.

14daysuspensionkMar 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No, Riven gets skins sold and as you could see when Firecracker Vayne was released with her buff, that's how they balance. There would definitely be less Riven Players once she gets a big nerf, so probably another placebo nerf like the -5 MS Irelia.

Dtill waiting on a new Kindred skin, Riot.

Bloodrage ShadowMar 5, 201918 votes

I was hyped as fuck for the Nexus Blitz version to come to SR...then it got delayed....then given old ER passive....now I just want it gone. Love being promised new items for bruisers (Atmas, Nexus Blitz SoS) only for Atmas to be removed and SoS changed to be useless on most and broken as shit on a select few. Unfortunately I don't see this item getting removed anytime soon if at all.

VerxintMar 5, 20192 votes

What's hilarious is that they think Atma's Reckoning or the original Spear of Shoujin will be too powerful, but this urf-mode bullshit is fine.

Rathar DashingMar 5, 20191 votes

I think they said Atma's just competed too much with other similar items, and would always either be strictly worse or better than a similar option because of the design. Old SoS they said had problems with the way it blocked damage, becoming a bad generalist pick when it should have been a good one, along with competing against Black Cleaver as a high damage+HP+CDR item.

LoL Engel 2Mar 5, 201915 votes

It doesn't fill any void and only 2 or 3 champions use it

Same as the first ER rework

Riot games has about 100 IQ to split among the entire company

Violet FieldsMar 6, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=LoL Engel 2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=V8N25ZEF,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-03-05T03:33:42.335+0000)

It doesn't fill any void and only 2 or 3 champions use it

How many champions use item 3056

SucctionMar 5, 20198 votes

I totally agree on the other points, but Illaoi? She doesn't really build it, and she has almost the lowest attack speed in the game so she can't really make use of it.

Minimac2000Mar 5, 20191 votes

^this lol

DeusVultMar 5, 20191 votes

She doesnt really build it because it doesnt fit i her build, but during her ult she can use her W to reset autos and since that auto refreshes W it is basically up 100% of the time

A case that sounds broken on paper but in reality she needs other items and her W cooldown is up enough during her ult that she doesnt need it

EDIT - if SoJ reduced cooldowns by a flat number (aka 1 second or 0.5 seconds) then it would kind of make sense on illoai. However, during her ult, W is on a 2 second CD, so 20% reduction per auto doesnt matter, especially since her autos have long animations and she has really low AS. Her E remains up when she hits, so the SoJ passive doesnt apply to it. So it really only applies to her Q, which Illoai doesnt really want to use during her ult, because her Q has a huge wind up and during that time she could be autoing or using W autos

14daysuspensionkMar 5, 20198 votes

Spear of Brokin.

jng dif victimMar 5, 20197 votes

u remind me my old times. i used to complain about everything broken in game. till i figgure out riot doesnt care at all. so i found solution my self. im a meta slave now. atm im a SOS abuser. i play champions that with conq + SOS are broken. and with next patch. i will play next broken thing that comes up. im happy now.i hit plat thanks to meta meanwhile that i know my skill is not plat yet. im not complaining now. and i dont care anymore that riot doesnt care [slayer-jinx-wink]

wildfox9TMar 5, 20192 votes

your name...it's just perfect for your argument [sg-miss-fortune]

SuperTopLFBottomMar 5, 20195 votes

Bruisers doing well LUL.

One bruiser and that is riven. Yorick is already getting gutted.

Meanwhile aftershock liss, ryze still ruin the game. Vayne, ezreal, lucian, draven untouched ruining the game.

Rek sai uberbroken not even hotfixed. Vlad is so disgusting rn but who cares muh bruisers opi opi.

JackMcSnipeyzMar 5, 20196 votes

Darius is at 51% winrate, 9% pickrate. Illaoi is at 51% winrate, 4% pickrate. Garen is at 50% winrate, 4% pickrate. Nasus 52% winrate, 7% pickrate. Yorick 53% winrate, 8.7% pickrate. Riven 53% winrate, 15% pickrate. Kled 53% winrate, 4.5% pickrate.

What Juggernaut/Bruiser is struggling? What is it with you bruiser players and your inferiority complex? Here's a link to lolalytics where i took the stats from

SillaeMar 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Darius is at 51% winrate, 9% pickrate. Illaoi is at 51% winrate, 4% pickrate. Garen is at 50% winrate, 4% pickrate. Nasus 52% winrate, 7% pickrate. Yorick 53% winrate, 8.7% pickrate. Riven 53% winrate, 15% pickrate. Kled 53% winrate, 4.5% pickrate.

What Juggernaut/Bruiser is struggling? What is it with you bruiser players and your inferiority complex? Here's a link to lolalytics where i took the stats from

Riven's pickrate and winrate still irks me so much, for such a "high skill champ" everyone seems to get a grasp on her easily.

JackMcSnipeyzMar 5, 20191 votes

No champ is truly "high skill cap", after a certain familiarity with their mechanics it's pretty easy to grasp their KIT and use it, hit skillshots/know how to trade, very few are actually hard to play after the first skill curve. So when a champion is strong, picking them up and playing them is much much easier, Riven is a good example, same with Vayne.

Skill in league is more about macro and decision making, what fights can you take, what should you trade, when to push and how to utilize your advantages and power spike. Unlike FPS games, league is more about decision making than raw mechanical skill.

SillaeMar 6, 20191 votes

{quoted}

No champ is truly "high skill cap", after a certain familiarity with their mechanics it's pretty easy to grasp their KIT and use it, hit skillshots/know how to trade, very few are actually hard to play after the first skill curve. So when a champion is strong, picking them up and playing them is much much easier, Riven is a good example, same with Vayne.

Skill in league is more about macro and decision making, what fights can you take, what should you trade, when to push and how to utilize your advantages and power spike. Unlike FPS games, league is more about decision making than raw mechanical skill.

I'm aware, and that was my point, but all Rivens talk about is Micro, animation cancelling, and call "bullshit" on whenever they can't 1v5 despite having "perfect micro." It doesn't help that Riven's laning phase is pretty much that mindset. She can all-in incredibly early and reliably, and if she takes ignite and lands even one cc, you're probably going to have to back, if you're not dead, and you can rest assured Riven took a LOT less damage than you.

In my experience, anyway.

However, to the "no champ is truly high skill cap" I think Azir would be considered a true high skill champ. Lots of fun and very strong but it really is a struggle for the average (i.e. non-challenger) person to be aware of your soldiers positions as well as your own in a hectic teamfight where a slip up could mean chain-cc to death. It gets easier with time, obviously, but still requires serious micro.

Riven? Just memorize the combo and slip in some animation cancels and you're ahead.

Unlike Riven, however, he gets nerfed horrendously when he even gets close to meta due to pro play :(

sho ayaneMar 6, 20191 votes

just fight with riven lvl1 proc conq and use ignite, don't need to animation cancel to win, Azir is pog

YoRHa 2BMar 5, 20194 votes

They could bring back old passive for SoS instead of removing it

Rathar DashingMar 5, 20192 votes

Yeah I'd rather have them be a bit tankier than be able to burst me with 2 rotations instantly.

Inkling CommandoMar 5, 20192 votes

if you are lucky riot might rework SoS but they won't remove it. look at old Stormrazor. people were complaining to hell and back that is was too strong so instead of removing it riot changed it.

Clone Is FriendMar 5, 20192 votes

cant wait for hasinshin to complain about how weak bruisers are if it gets removed. oh wait he does so with it in the game, OOPS

rayzoMar 5, 20192 votes

oh no jax is destroying me help

SoS

[sg-miss-fortune]

Minimac2000Mar 5, 20191 votes

Illaoi will never build spear lol, I know its suggested but that would be trolling. She needs both deaths dance and steraks way too much to ever buy it and then in team fights her w already has a 1.5ish s cd and you aren't getting any more off because she won't stop to auto. Why do you think illaoi is the only ad bruiser that doesnt build triforce? Her base as won't let her

OxóssiMar 15, 20191 votes

But Illaoi does build TF? She also builds Spear to good effect according to lolalytics.

Minimac2000Mar 15, 20191 votes

10 days, wow. And no she doesn't lol, look at any good illaoi player. Read through any of the illaoi mains subreddit. Both of those items are very auto-attack reliant and illaoi has like literally the worst base as in the game on top of already having a sub 2s CD on her w, the only ability that matters 90% of the time in an all in. Basically building TF just makes her too squishy although admittedly makes her split pushing better it's just not worth instantly dying in fights because impacting fights takes a good second or two of set up on illaoi. If you build tf, you are gone before you even get to slam once

PopperofskiMar 19, 20191 votes

Illaoi and aatrox are basically the same exact build path. Would you build TF on aatrox? No? then don't do it on illaoi

Mokuto BunshiMar 5, 20191 votes

"they wonder why bruisers are doing well atm"

Okay, lets be clear here. Its melee top laners in general (Illaoi isnt a bruser shes a juggernaut for example), but even then not all of us are enjoying the benefits of shojin. I main Kled and I don't get much from the item.

More dashes? Makes me stickier? Not useful when 2 of my rotations should kill my targets (ADC's) What I struggle in More Q's? Same story. More W? Would be nice but the issue is W is used to PROC IT to begin with. So it gains little benefit. Best of all, ult, blowing my chasing/engaging ult makes no sense in a duel or team fight since it scales to max dmg over distance...

TL;DR Not ALL bruisers are benefiting, just the ones that were already too strong. (Its not just you, trust me I have the right to dislike riven MORE SO than other laners, who do you think gets blamed when the champ roams and gets kills?).

By all means, kill the item, but please dont blame all bruisers, thats like blaming all ADC's for lucian being good with shojin or how good kai'sa was before ADC's got reverted.

GrReaper96Mar 5, 20191 votes

Yeah but conq on Kled is pretty busted with how easily he gets the stacks

Mokuto BunshiMar 5, 20191 votes

You'd think so but #1: He has to use his damaging ability (W) to stack it. (so being able to auto attack fast with an ability to proc it is cool... unless thats the thing you wanted to empower and now you have used it) AND #2:

"We're pulling out some of Conqueror's late game strength while retaining the more core true damage and healing conversion. ADAPTIVE FORCE 2-10 per stack (10-50 at max stacks) ⇒ 2-6 per stack (10-30 at max stacks)" -Riot Patch 9.5

The part that kled needed from the rune that makes him good (because the item certainly doesn't) is now even weaker... Welp, sucks to be a kled player sometimes...

SuperTopLFBottomMar 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but conq on is pretty busted with how easily he gets the stacks

Yeah man he gets stacks so easily when he stacked conq his entire kit is on cooldown.

So easily stacked bruh.

PopperofskiMar 5, 20191 votes

Jax - Lower the numbers on his passive damage gains on his R, and get rid of the dodge on his E, make it damage reduction. Make his Q a skillshot so he has escape but he also cannot always land his counterstrike combo. Fixed, now him building spear actually has risks if you can't reach targets, and you can't immediately just stat check to win. Revert the numbers nerfs done recently to his W and Q does AOE damage (40% of bonus AD, 30% of bonus AP)

Maybe hashinshin will finally quit the game after this one

Renekton has clearly defined weaknesses and needed something other than item 3071 or item 3077 . If you HAD to nerf anything about his kit, give him less fury gain on his abilities so the cooldown window reduction makes him have to stay trading longer rather than bursting people out. Still has very low representation in high elo play because he falls off super fucking hard past 25 minutes

Illaoi literally has no reason to build it because the R making the W 2 seconds flat CD reduces it by 0.2 seconds. Try again. She's a caster who does not weave natural autos in.

Riven Has such a stat check kit that if you tweak the numbers you'd just gut the champion and rework it because the kit can't be salvaged other than cooldown gating a champ who's only function is doing damage, because the concept is flawed from the start.

Scottsc20Mar 15, 20191 votes

{quoted}

- Lower the numbers on his passive damage gains on his R, and get rid of the dodge on his E, make it damage reduction. Make his Q a skillshot so he has escape but he also cannot always land his counterstrike combo. Fixed, now him building spear actually has risks if you can't reach targets, and you can't immediately just stat check to win. Revert the numbers nerfs done recently to his W and Q does AOE damage (40% of bonus AD, 30% of bonus AP)

Wait, what? Jax recently got nerfed when, in my opinion, he didn't even deserve to be. Now you are proposing changes that basically make him unplayable and ruin his feel as a champion because of an item? Get some help please.

PopperofskiMar 15, 20191 votes

Okay hashinshin.

Don't change a champion from a pure statcheck to someone who has a skill ceiling.

Scottsc20Mar 18, 20191 votes

"Pure statcheck." Maybe you should play Jax first.

PopperofskiMar 19, 20191 votes

I have. The thing about jax is that he doesnt get built in true damage. That wins over having hybrid damage any day of the week. Now yes, his sheen interactions and ap/ad builds dont change that all he does is jump, do damage, auto empower damage, E, lets you dodge and do more damage, and his R, does damage. The thing is

Jax has been nerfed. His keystone, his damage, and his item costs.

Master yi still abuses item 3124 item 1419 item 3153 more than jax abuses item 3053 item 3078 item 3748 (or item 3161 )

In fact Master yi is a better item 3161 than Jax because he literally will have no CD on his Q, and his E, and the attack speed slaps that true damage and phantom hit much faster.

master yi literally cannot lose at that point if you do not have the perfect 5/6 cc combos. The only contestants to master Yi besides jax have to use CC to attempt a 1v1, and or you have to one shot him. I do it on full ap Gragas but even then I have to actually catch him off guard, land my combo, and hope to god he doesnt alpha strike even after the E hits his character.

They're two of the same problem but riot hates having to actually rework toxic kits.

5050BSMar 5, 20191 votes

100% its too OP on a few champs. Needs to go.

sho ayaneMar 6, 20191 votes

This item is going to get Jax and Riven nerfed into the ground so they are forced to buy this item in order to win, which goes against riots "build whatever you want (6 wits ends)" which means that nothing will change because riot hates removing items.

not much we can do, except nerf conq :D Kappa (wanted to meme)

SpecterVonBarenMar 6, 20191 votes

No, change the passive but make it for those that want tanky but damaging builds with a new passive centered on that kind of gameplay.

FCJAAAAGOOOOMar 6, 20191 votes

item 3161 item 3812 Riven = literal blender

Mrs QtpieMar 6, 20191 votes

If I worked for Riot, I would say "hey, maybe we shouldn't have an item that makes Jax and Riven invulnerable. The balance team would respond by throwing me out of the window.

FSRERMar 6, 20191 votes

And you know what they will do!! they won't remove the item but nerf all these champions. Oh btw why isnt vaye in here? have you seen her with spear cause....i have....and what is seen can not be unseen