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People that bought runes and are complaining about being ripped off

BobaFlautist··8 votes·540 views

Are forgetting that they actually got to use runes that entire time. You already got a ton of value out of them. And it's not like you're going to be at a gameplay disadvantage to people who didn't I vest in runes.

Would I like a higher amount of IP refunded? Of course. Do I want Riot to bankrupt themselves trying to give a "fair" amount of IP back? What do you think?

Look, they don't wanna give a gameplay advantage to people who got runes in the past, they've made it clear that they don't like giving big fancy "Exclusive" content (because a big sell for league is that everything you see, you can get for yourself. Everyone's on the same level, to start), and the exclusive content they are willing to offer, loading screen flair and icons, has been very poorly received.

Their only option is to give us things available to the general community, and if they actually gave a satisfying ratio of IP back and made the costs of items in the temporary IP store reasonable, then some of their most dedicated consistent customers would end up with a ton of basically free basically rp, buy everything they want, and never spend a dime on the game again. Obviously that would be fun for us, but it's not hard to see why they're doing it this way.

I'm not thrilled by what I'm getting either, but in this case, Riot's logic is internally consistent. It's completely predictable, and people that are shocked have no right to call themselves veterans - I don't care how long you've played leage, if you didn't see this coming you might as well have started yesterday.

15 Comments

Darkdemon6533 votes

{quoted}

Are forgetting that they actually got to use runes that entire time.

Here's the difference between getting to use runes and getting to use champions. Runes are nothing more than a few stats the champion gets. There's nothing fun about buying and equipping runes and there's no gameplay involved. Additionally, runes are REQUIRED to have in order to even play because Riot balances around their existence.

BobaFlautist1 votes

Correct. So isn't it worth some minor individual sacrifice to remove this nonsense from the game?

Darkdemon6531 votes

{quoted}

Correct. So isn't it worth some minor individual sacrifice to remove this nonsense from the game?

That's a false dichotomy. Runes in their current form can be removed from the game WHILE properly refunding them.

BobaFlautist1 votes

They can.

"Properly" refunding them, however, would mean that veterans would never have to buy anything again - unless the IP you got back couldn't buy skins, in which case it would feel worthless.

Darkdemon6531 votes

{quoted}

They can.

"Properly" refunding them, however, would mean that veterans would never have to buy anything again - unless the IP you got back couldn't buy skins, in which case it would feel worthless.

Blue essence will not be usable for general skins. It will only buy very special skins (the example given was Urf Warwick) and chromas, and those are for only a short time.

BobaFlautist1 votes

They said they would be returning the store from time to time though.

Look, there are three possibilities:

  1. Vets get too much stuff and are more or less happy but Riot can't make money from them anymore.
  2. Vets get a ton of IP (BE) but not enough stuff to spend it on. Still frustrating, but also now not an IP sink.
  3. Vets get a ton of stuff available but only a relatively low level of IP. Provides an IP sink, rewards Vets by letting them buy some special skins and other swag, and doesn't reduce their "Store" tag on the client to a waste of space.

Everyone wants more, and that's understandable. I want more too. But the fact that people are acting betrayed is ridiculous.

Darkdemon6531 votes

{quoted}

They said they would be returning the store from time to time though.

Look, there are three possibilities:

  1. Vets get too much stuff and are more or less happy but Riot can't make money from them anymore.
  2. Vets get a ton of IP (BE) but not enough stuff to spend it on. Still frustrating, but also now not an IP sink.
  3. Vets get a ton of stuff available but only a relatively low level of IP. Provides an IP sink, rewards Vets by letting them buy some special skins and other swag, and doesn't reduce their "Store" tag on the client to a waste of space.

Everyone wants more, and that's understandable. I want more too. But the fact that people are acting betrayed is ridiculous.

I don't recall them saying the store would come back. But even if it does come back periodically, it's still only for chromas and few, select skins.

Regardless of the possibilities, IP should be refunded at full value. That's all there is to it. Even if people are making too big of a deal out of it, it's still something that should happen.

archerno12 votes

Dont bring this up. When i suggested it, some guy started talking about houses and cardboxes on a lake. Just let those entitled brats sulk for a while, they will move on.

TheDangerousTaco1 votes

it was me and I'm still here b!. whad up! you talking sht????

Jokes aside, if riot wants too, they can increase the store cost. its really simple, ITs not rocket science people. if they don't want people who have 300k ip to buy everything, they increase the cost. But don't keep champ prices the same ( not even changing them ) and give us less blue essence to compenstate. people often forget, when there is this much outrage over something its not teenagers on there hormones, its usually for a good reason.

If you see a lot of smoke, you shouldn't go, "oh well there those kids go, smoking marijuana again" your thought should be" is there a fire?" and yea must of us are pissed cause were loosing big time on this conversion.

BobaFlautist1 votes

The problem with them giving more IP in the refund and increasing the prices in the temporary store, instead of the other way around (which is what they did) is that it means newer players can't buy anything.

It turns out that they want to also reward people that have been sticking to the game since 2015 (two years is a long time to be loyal to a game) without giving older veterans literally everything.

Also, a very basic rules of thumb for long lasting games like league: if you're looking at revamping grindy content, you always, always prioritize the ongoing game and users to come over the old guard.

The old guard will bitch and moan, but if you listen to everything they say you get stuck never improving the game because it wouldn't be "fair" (fair in this case meaning "I had to do this miserable thing because of antiquated designs you guys did before you knew what you were doing, therefore every new player should have to too). That's part of what delayed the rework of runes for so long, and I'm glad Riot finally gave up on trying to satisfy the unsatisfyable and just fixed the damn system.

I would have been happy if they had done this a year ago and given me literally nothing for the likely 100k+ I've spent on runes, at least one of the most arbitrarily large barriers to entry in the game has been finally broken down.

Also, you're not losing anything. You still get to use every single rune in the game at no additional cost, you're getting more or less free IP, and you can buy runes with IP. Think of it as paying taxes, you're the 1%, give your share to make the game better for everyone.

Why is this such a fucking hard concept for people?

TheDangerousTaco1 votes

{quoted}

The problem with them giving more IP in the refund and increasing the prices in the temporary store, instead of the other way around (which is what they did) is that it means newer players can't buy anything.

But that's exactly the point . . . FCK the new players! Why on hell should they be compensated???? They didn't do sht,

  • they didn't support the game from day 1,
  • they didn't watch lcs and buy merchandise
  • they didn't spend RP on rune pages just to play the game more competitlvely like fck off man, why do new players have anything to do with a system that is intended and designed to REIMBURSE veteran players.????

Do people who just join the military get the same medal of honor as people who fought in Iraq? or Vietnam?? Bloody no, those wet ears better earn there dam place like the rest of us. The same goes here, We are not the same, veterans =/= new players. Why would you compare us??

And also This statement right here pisses me the fck off

"Also, you're not losing anything. You still get to use every single rune in the game at no additional cost, you're getting more or less free IP"

Like I don't know what elementary teacher thought you people how to do math, but that woman/man needs to be fired and have her paycheck rescinded for all those years.

listen here bub.... lets pretend me and you both earned 12,600 ip. you bought you some new champs, I bought some new runes. Now lets say that my runes are being taken away and given back to everyone, and in return I only get 600ip back.

How on gods earth, do you turn out with this backward ass logic, that says me and you are equal???. You end up with 2 x 6300 champs + free runes, and I end up with 600 ip? I can barely buy amumu with that sht....

How??.....

HOW!!!????

How do people say we are not loosing... what? . . . . what logic is that??? please tell me.. I am so confused

BobaFlautist1 votes

"Newer", not "new". I wasn't talking about people who joined last Friday, I meant people that have played for 3 years, instead of 10. If you balance the store for people that have been playing 10, people that have been playing for 3 years can't buy anything from it.

And why do new players matter? Because new players are the game. That's like asking why we should take care of kids when other people have been around for longer. Completely nosensical.

And no, this wasn't designed entirely to reward veterans, that's what you're missing. The new rune system was designed to make the game better for literally everyone. It will be objectively a superior and more competitive game for every single player.

The small kickback you get for having bought runes in the past is almost irrelevant, Riot could have just decided not to do that and this would still be a huge improvement; instead they decide to give veterans free stuff to show their appreciation but no, it's not enough.

You know why you and other veterans are actually complaining? It's not because you're losing anything (you still get all the runes) and it's not actually because of the concrete numbers, disappointing though they are.

It's because you're losing the advantage you were given strictly for having played the game for longer. You wanted something big that would help reinforce your elitism, your feeling g that you're a better person and deserved to be treated better just for encountering a video game sooner than someone else. I've seen it a million times before, and I'm not surprised to see it in the league community.

"BUT WHAT ABOUT YOUR LOYAL CUSTOMERS" you cry, threatening to leave over chickenshit. "I've played this game for years, despite being screwed over by a terrible design decision, and I think it's unreasonable that you're thinking of not screwing over new players with that system and not giving me, personally, some reward for it. I won't be able to hold that grind over newer players' heads anymore, and I honestly can't believe you aren't replacing it with something else I can hold over their head. How could you.

Again, we're already the 1%. We have the most champions, the most experience, and we got to play this game for longer. We don't need to be rewarded just because one of the more unfair systems is getting improved for everyone, including us. The fact that Riot gave us anything is a testament to how much they value us -too much in my opinion. I wanna see more user friendly changes like this that make the new player experience better, then maybe I can get my friends to play with me without feeling like a monster.

TheDangerousTaco1 votes

{quoted}

"Newer", not "new". I wasn't talking about people who joined last Friday, I meant people that have played for 3 years, instead of 10. If you balance the store for people that have been playing 10, people that have been playing for 3 years can't buy anything from it.

But that to me is perfectly reasonable, You haven't played as much, you haven't worked as hard, you haven't done as much for the company as a whole as other players. So you get the same amount is just bullshit.

And why do new players matter? Because new players are the game. That's like asking why we should take care of kids when other people have been around for longer. Completely nosensical.

No, its not nonsencial, because what you have is a bunch of veterans that fight and die for the dam fcking country only for these new kids to get all the rewards. You have parents that slave day in and day out for there kids only to be shoved into a retirement home. You have ancestors that died for your dumass to be alive to day, and you basically said "fck em, I'm more important". its bullshit like that why countries like America hate the new generation. You haven't worked as hard as these poor folks breaking there back, working day in and day out, just to feed your selfish ass. And when they ask for proper compensation, you spit in there faces and say there not important. its prelivaged cucks like you that need a reality check. My parents didn't fly 2000miles across the ocean, work 2 jobs each, and slave themselves every god dam fucking day so I could tell them that they didn't matter.

Sorry if this got a bit too personal, but that comment pissed me the fuck off. Kids these days need a reality check.

But going back to my point, veterans and newer players are not the same and they shouldn't be treated the same. But if you want to use that logic, go ahead. But don't you dare say that kids are more important than other people. I will slap the bullshit out of your dam mouth, cause I hate that backwards ass logic. My parents shouldn't be fcking screwed over just cause a few 13y's were born after a certain date.

I don't think veterans should be either

And no, this wasn't designed entirely to reward veterans, that's what you're missing. The new rune system was designed to make the game better for literally everyone. It will be objectively a superior and more competitive game for every single player.

Know what, I will give it to you, I agree with that point.

The small kickback you get for having bought runes in the past is almost irrelevant, Riot could have just decided not to do that and this would still be a huge improvement; instead they decide to give veterans free stuff to show their appreciation but no, it's not enough.

And this is where I disagree with you. We complain to riot not because were spoiled, because we trust riot as a company. riot makes it there best interest to help out all players equally... that's why were here playing >_> if riot was just any other company, most would of quit by now. But this is the reason why were giving the shit, they asked for feedback, and this is it. Were not just doing this whilly nilly. this system that they claimed would reimburse us, barely covers the cost. so yea, this is not free at all. in fact, the very idea that everyone can access it shows that we were just an afterthought and there attention as focused elsewhere.

You know why you and other veterans are actually complaining? It's not because you're losing anything (you still get all the runes) and it's not actually because of the concrete numbers, disappointing though they are.

It's because you're losing the advantage you were given strictly for having played the game for longer. You wanted something big that would help reinforce your elitism, your feeling g that you're a better person and deserved to be treated better just for encountering a video game sooner than someone else. I've seen it a million times before, and I'm not surprised to see it in the league community.

Ok , again you piss me off with this fuckin bullshit logic. I'm mad cause I loose advantage????? if you don't get your 12y old ass the fuck out of here. I will tell you why I'm pissed. I'm pissed cuase the hard work I did on this game is getting thrown away and people like you are telling me ( your still getting something be happy ). It is that indifferent attitude is why a lot of us are angry. We put good effort into those runes, we did it to enhance our game experience. and while other people bought champions, we specifically did this to focus on the gameplay aspect, we didn't get to buy new champs when they were released, we didn't get to buy chromas. But with this new store, everyone gets to buy chromas, but the ones that bought runes barely get what they paid back. This miniscule amount is an outrage for the time we spent on this game.

"BUT WHAT ABOUT YOUR LOYAL CUSTOMERS" you cry, threatening to leave over chickenshit. "I've played this game for years, despite being screwed over by a terrible design decision, and I think it's unreasonable that you're thinking of not screwing over new players with that system and not giving me, personally, some reward for it. I won't be able to hold that grind over newer players' heads anymore, and I honestly can't believe you aren't replacing it with something else I can hold over their head. How could you.

Its not even about the dam grind, who cares.... what grind is so mighty that your talking about. The only thing we got was a shitty extra runepage.. it barely added extra stats. veteran players looked NO different that newer players, the only thing special about that was there skins, but even those are not rare. ITs not about the fcking grind. Its about the same thing you are failing to realize. Loyal customers should not be treated the same as new customers, what business does that? I can tell you.. a failing one. And I doubht riot will pass this through if they had half a brain.

Again, we're already the 1%. We have the most champions, the most experience, and we got to play this game for longer. We don't need to be rewarded just because one of the more unfair systems is getting improved for everyone, including us. The fact that Riot gave us anything is a testament to how much they value us -too much in my opinion. I wanna see more user friendly changes like this that make the new player experience better, then maybe I can get my friends to play with me without feeling like a monster.

I don't know what shit your on, but if your actually ok with this low value reward, that's fine. But you cant say people have no right to be angry, they have every right to be mad. And I don't know how you feel like a monster by playing with friends? . . but I'm going to ignore that random statement >_>.

What you and others always want to overlook, is that veteran players were promised something. and you say we don't deserve anything? that's fair... but if that's the case, don't give that same promise to everyone else and treat us like were equal, when were the ones loosing the most. They are not loosing rp, ip, time spent on game, or champions unbought. They get the same amount of shit we get, but were the only ones loosing in this situation.

chipndip12 votes

{quoted}

Dont bring this up. When i suggested it, some guy started talking about houses and card boxes on a lake.

The mental gymnastics one must pull off to get to that point...

TheDangerousTaco2 votes

lol it wasn't that hard

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