Talon...Riotu...pls...(Mana and Cooldown problem)

Shinobipanther··2 votes·1,313 views

I'm a bit new to league, only started playing in the mere beginning of 2015. I'm new I don't use that many champs. I currently main three my best main being TalonTalon . Even though he is my best champ I still find him in cringing moments at times. After I defeat my opponent in mid-lane I always use up so much mana. Sometimes I forget about this while roaming to my bot lane hoping to help then realizing I'm out of mana when I meet the enemy adc and their support low. I engage them with the intention of getting a double kill through using my ult. Then I realize i don't have mana and just get killed by them. What I'm trying to suggest here is Talon doesn't need mana. In fact( well at least to me) mana plays as a GREAT hindrance to Talon. Champs similar to Talon such as Katrina, Zed and Akali are also assassins who play similarly to talon yet don't have that mana bar hindrance. They could use their moves as long as they want without worry about heading back to the nexus to mana recharge or buying mana regen items. Mana isn't the only problem Talon has. He has some really slow cooldowns that should be reduced. I have some cooldowns runes - Greater Quintessence and some minor greater Glyphs. In game ( if I am doing well) I buy late game items with decent cool down reductions like Yommu's ghostitem 3142 and Black cleaver item 3071 and still find myself missing an opportunity like a low hp Les sin running away after I killed his adc. Many times I get yelled at for missing stuff like this by my teammates. I always resort to explaining to my teammates my 7 sec cool down on my cut throat (e). I must admit, Talon's ult is has a great cooldown, actually all his moves have great cooldowns its just his E which is also happens to be one of the most important spells for him has an undesirable . Shortening a bit to 4 or 5 secs would really help. The cooldowns are a huge problem but not as sever as Talon have a mana bar. So pleas Riot and other follow player read this and give me a suggestion. Please riot, remove Talon's mana bar at least.

16 Comments

DarthSpectrum2 votes

You can always start item 2041, but it heavily limits your early game cheese potential.

Talon is meant to be the single target assassin, and he excels in that aspect. Talon's combo is a lot more potent than Zed's. It cannot be cleansed, and it takes .2 to .4 seconds with a good Talon compared to Zed's 3 second delay on Death Mark.

Giving Talon a mana bar isn't entirely a bad idea. He can 100-0 any of the assassins you mentioned that are resourceless. As well, having a mana bar does not hinder his core game play at all. If you were to give Katarina a resource for example, she would not longer play like Katarina. Akali and Zed are given energy because it fits with Riot's general motif of giving ninjas and Ionian monks energy as a resource. Pragmatically, Akali is resourceless since she regains so much from detonating her Q, and Zed doesn't really run into problems with energy either unlike Shen or Kennen .

If Talon does become resourceless, he will probably lose the burst he has now to compensate.

NemeBro1 votes

Talon is better than Katarina, Zed, and Akali. He doesn't need a buff.

Pardon me if I'm not crying over you not being able to delete the enemy bruiser after you completely deleted his helpless ADC, lol.

Shinobipanther1 votes

I understand Talon is better than Kat and Akali. Yet Zed gives me trouble. Still even after I beat them I'm mana dry and cant roam. Which sucks since the other champs i just mentioned can do that - roam after killing. And that situation with the brusier escaping, wouldn't it be really helpful if I were to get rid of him then watching him walk away with 4 hp?

GinoSoldier1 votes

Talon needs a nerf on his dash ability, maybe make it unable to cross walls or reduce the distance. Once that's done i'll consider him a rather balanced champion. See, between his ult and Rake, add in the usual Hydra, and he just gives an absolutely stupid amount of AoE damage. Least he could do is actually give people half a chance to get at him in return.

Shinobipanther1 votes

What your saying is : Talon needs he's E to be useless?. Most dashes I know like shens ,lucian, graves and riven can go over walls to get their targets. Why is Talon a problem? Also I'm pretty sure Hydra's AOE only works with auto attacks. His rake and ult are crucial to him substituting it will result in creating a new champ.

pripustas1 votes

Emm you actually can get him. He has no escape after using E to gapclose and R for damage (which he will 95% of the time)

GinoSoldier1 votes

{quoted}

Emm you actually can get him. He has no escape after using E to gapclose and R for damage (which he will 95% of the time)

But question is, can you? Do you have enough HP to not die to Talon/his teammates following that horrendously strong engage? And since everything in his kit is used at once, after he's done shredding (potentially, with good placement) your entire team, he's no longer a threat for a couple seconds. Can you afford to chase the assassin, or do you try to run away because your entire team suddenly is out on 25-75% of their HP right at the start of a teamfight when the enemy team is possibly in peak condition?

I'm asking for a E range nerf to make it harder for him to go straight through your frontline and into your backline without having to put much, if any effort, as well as giving some champions a better chance at running away/poking him without getting insta-gibbed. For example, playing as Sona VS Talon is a nightmare; his E outranges all her skills, meaning no matter what she does, he can safely get onto her and delete her with 0 chance of counterplay besides just running away, which isn't always an option either.

pripustas1 votes

Well first off Talon can't 100-0 delete and escape 1x5. Maybe he will kill his target, but he won't escape. If he does, then your team is bad. If he uses ult to go in on you, then you can cc him after he goes in. If he goes in without ult, then you can stop him before he jumps onto someone. Also he can't delete anyone without AA, unless he's very fed. And if enemy is fed you always have a problem.

zeathoros1 votes

Basically what you are wanting is... now correct me if im wrong... an assassin... that by default is better than most other mid assassins... that can roam around after getting a kill... to get more kills............ and never have to worry about mana?

Shinobipanther1 votes

Yessir

LadyRenly1 votes

I honestly don't get why Talon has mana but Kat or Zed don't, but he does. It's not that big of a deal. I don't think removing mana from him is what he would need. I'd sooner see a complete passive change(even if it's something miniscule, at least ANYTHING that would see use instead of highly situational)

Shinobipanther1 votes

He's passive does only comes to affect when hid prey is stunned,slowed snared etc. It deal an additional 10 % which could be helpful when trading with the status affected victim. I personally find this helpful but that just me. Also back to the mana thing, Don't you find annoying recalling after every kill to recharge mana.

Shinobipanther1 votes

Guys please keep the comments coming. I want to see what you guys think or what suggestion you have.

Shinobipanther1 votes

I want riot to consider this post, If it's okay with the community.

KitsuneKrash1 votes

From my times playing Talon, starting crystaline flask tends to help his early game mana problems. As for hydra, it's more for it's active being an attack reset than for the AoE. Talon's Q & Hydra give you 2 attack resets making it far easier to burst any non-tanks.

Leeerzeichen1 votes

Diana or Fizz are assassins and use mana too. And they are both ap assassins, so being oom is equal to having no damage. Talon has still his AAs. Simply check you mana before roaming bot.

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