Another reminder that removing Ornn's unstoppable was a mistake.

Bârd·Oct 18, 2018·2 votes·1,252 views

He has a pretty simple, faceroll heavy kit. Takes a little while to learn his skillshots and timings, but he's always been relatively simple.

The one thing he had that made him interesting from a mechanical standpoint was the unstoppable W. That single mechanic made him fun.

Now it's removed, he's no longer a fun champion, and I have zero interest in playing him.

Overnight he went from a champion who was an instant favorite of mine on release to somebody I only touch when I forget just how much the change hurt.

If this were added back, he'd become a fun champion again, but I know Riot's track record on reverting obviously flawed changes so I don't really have hope for it.

25 Comments

PhearBunnyOct 18, 20183 votes

You ever lane vs Ornn? Nah it wasn't a mistake. And hes still a strong pick on coordinated teams.

BârdOct 19, 20181 votes

If you ever laned against Ornn, you should know that Unstoppable wasn't what broke him.

The buffs to his damage and range were what broke him.

Pokemonred200Oct 18, 20182 votes

Why does it have to be on W specifically?

I'd personally rather put it on his E, given it's the dash ability where unstoppable imo makes the most sense, and I'm pretty sure I've seen Ornn continue to spit his W flame while CC'd (don't quote me on this, my memory is foggy).

BârdOct 19, 20181 votes

That doesn't work with his theme or playstyle. Ornn is an immovable object, not an unstoppable force.
His E travel time is shorter than his W cast time, meaning you'd have even less time than the old 0.75 second unstoppable.
Flying unstoppably towards the enemy for an AOE knockup is Malphite's shtick.
It makes him able to escape too reliably.
The cast time on E would make it clunky to use.
He should be using his E to get where he wants to be, not to stay where he wants to be.

ZephyrDrakeOct 18, 20182 votes

Reminder that removing his unstoppable did nothing whatsoever and anything you could do with him before you can still do it today

ParoeOct 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Reminder that removing his unstoppable did nothing whatsoever and anything you could do with him before you can still do it today

Except outplay with proper timing. It actually felt pretty good to unstoppable say a morganna ult or a galio ult.

BârdOct 19, 20181 votes

You could ignore every displacement or airborne effect in the game.

Aatrox Alistar AurelionSol Azir Blitzcrank Braum Camille Chogath Darius Diana Draven Galio Gnar Gragas Hecarim Ivern JarvanIV Jayce Kalista Kayn Kled LeeSin Lulu Malphite Maokai Nami Nautilus Nunu Orianna Ornn Poppy Pyke Quinn Rakan Rammus RekSai Riven Sejuani Shyvana Singed Sion Skarner Swain Syndra TahmKench Taliyah Thresh Tristana Trundle Urgot Vayne Velkoz Volibear MonkeyKing XinZhao Yasuo Zac Zyra

In case you hadn't noticed, there are a handful of those.

You could also partially ignore every hard CC in the game, since you would only be disabled by whatever of it remained at the end of your W duration, but I'm not going to list every stun, root, and snare in the game.

But sure, "nothing whatsoever".

Moody POct 18, 20181 votes

ok but only if you nerf his CC

BârdOct 18, 20181 votes

Sure.

Nerf his CC, damage, W range, W shield, R CD, forging, whatever.

If that was in exchange for unstoppable on W, I wouldn't care.

He'd go from a champion you pick thinking "I know his ult will be good here but I hate every second of this" to one you pick while thinking "Ayyy this will be fun".

ParoeOct 18, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Sure.

Nerf his CC, damage, W range, W shield, R CD, forging, whatever.

If that was in exchange for unstoppable on W, I wouldn't care.

He'd go from a champion you pick thinking "I know his ult will be good here but I hate every second of this" to one you pick while thinking "Ayyy this will be fun".

Why? All the unstoppable did was give him outplay ability that wasnt super situational and raise his skill ceiling - much like Yi's alpha strike.

Orrn received further nerfs after unstoppable was removed, too; hes a victim of riots patented "compound nerfs". Giving him back unstoppable NOW wouldnt bring him over the edge, it would bring him closer TO the edge at upper skill levels.

BârdOct 19, 20181 votes

Because he's already strong in competitive (if only for his ult), so I can't imagine him being buffed without a price and there's a lot of things I would be fine exchanging for that.

I'd give up masterworks (screw it, I'd exchange his entire passive).
I'd give up his Q terrain
I'd give up his E terrain destruction
I'd give up a massive chunk of W's damage/shield
I'd give up W range
I'd give up his ult range
I'd give up brittle CC extension

I don't necessarily want him to lose any of these, but if he has to become weaker in order for him to regain the only mechanic that made me like him in the first place, so be it.

Lord Zeta 1313Oct 18, 20181 votes

how about giving him extra tenacity during his W? it wouldn't be as OP as unstoppable but would still be CC resistance

And maybe his W cant be interrupted by CC so that we have something that actually counters taunt

BârdOct 18, 20181 votes

That defeats the entire purpose.

The biggest part of unstoppable is that you can't be displaced.

Tenacity doesn't do that.

Lord Zeta 1313Oct 19, 20181 votes

no unstoppable is you cant be CC'd

ParoeOct 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Zeta 1313,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UAUAEUKq,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-19T02:14:33.849+0000)

no unstoppable is you cant be CC'd

The CC doesnt take effect until after the unstoppable ends. You can still be CC'd - the timer will stick tick - but it just wont effect you.
We see the same thing in priority mobility like tristana jump, zac jump, kha jump, ezreal flash where if you CC them while the mobility is occuring they will continue to mobility and only be CC'd after their mobility is over.

Its one of the reasons why its silly that bard can be CC'd out of his tunnel and Yi can be CC'd out of alpha.

BârdOct 19, 20181 votes

...which is different from tenacity.

With 100% tenacity, you are still fully vulnerable to airborne and displacement effects.

With unstoppable, you aren't.

BlinkZZ182Oct 18, 20181 votes

Acceptable if his ult range is reduced to 800. Then the pros won't be using him much

ValyrianBladeOct 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=UVM ZhaoRiTian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UAUAEUKq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-10-18T22:54:05.000+0000)

Acceptable if his ult range is reduced to 800. Then the pros won't be using him much

800 is a little extreme, but honestly I would prefer a reduced ult distance alongside a return of unstoppable!

Cotten Eyed JoeOct 18, 20181 votes

Alright well you know what unstoppable does? Makes you immune to all CC. Meaning when timed right, could dodge Camille ult, Morgana bind, and a lot of other things. This meant, that Ornn, a tank, now had a 9 second anti-cc buffer on his W. at level 1. THis made him so OP. Someone diving you under turret? Use W. They removed it cause it made him so OP. Almost all other unstoppables are on ults, Warwick Ult, Zac Ult, Sion Ult.

ParoeOct 19, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cotten Eyed Joe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UAUAEUKq,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-10-18T23:58:01.810+0000)

Alright well you know what unstoppable does? Makes you immune to all CC. Meaning when timed right, could dodge Camille ult, Morgana bind, and a lot of other things. This meant, that Ornn, a tank, now had a 9 second anti-cc buffer on his W. at level 1. THis made him so OP. Someone diving you under turret? Use W. They removed it cause it made him so OP. Almost all other unstoppables are on ults, Warwick Ult, Zac Ult, Sion Ult.

9 seconds? Are you high? Orrns W is 3.5 currently, and it was 2.5 before.

Theres nothing wrong with orrn having outplay ability... And while it might have been to strong before - back when orrn did 25% max health over 2.5 seconds - it most certainly wouldnt be to strong NOW due to the nerfs which have occured since.

ÆtheistOct 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

9 seconds? Are you high? Orrns W is 3.5 currently, and it was 2.5 before.

Theres nothing wrong with orrn having outplay ability... And while it might have been to strong before - back when orrn did 25% max health over 2.5 seconds - it most certainly wouldnt be to strong NOW due to the nerfs which have occured since.

Wasn't Ornn only unstoppable during the march itself? He only marches forward for 0.75 seconds.

Coupled with the shield, that basically made his W a Riposte with a lower cooldown that dealt %HP magic damage and applied Brittle (which then did more %HP magic damage).

ParoeOct 19, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Wasn't Ornn only unstoppable during the march itself? He only marches forward for 0.75 seconds.

Coupled with the shield, that basically made his W a Riposte with a lower cooldown that dealt %HP magic damage and applied Brittle.

Yes, it was during the march. ACTIVE: Ornn Hybrid resistances icon shields himself for 12% of his maximum health for 3.5 seconds and marches in the target direction with 50% reduced movement speed for 0.75 seconds.

Doesnt that give more credence to the idea of adding it back though, considering the nerfs since it was removed and the fact its a shorter duration than sivir and nocturns spell shield and rewards accurate timing - also known as skill?

BârdOct 19, 20181 votes

Yeah, but it doesn't block all the damage, just a chunk. It also doesn't return a stun at range, slow attack/movement speed, or grant him complete CC immunity (if the CC had a longer duration than the unstoppable, he'd just be disabled for that remaining bit at the end).

It was a strong effect, sure, but it's not god mode.

Cotten Eyed JoeOct 19, 20181 votes

Wait my bad, Ornn's CD is actually 17 seconds on W. MB, must have been high when I was reading that. And Ornn's unstoppable was a large part in why he was overpowered. Not the sole reason, but a large part of it.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Ornn/Abilities

BârdOct 19, 20181 votes

Ok, so you never played Ornn on release, or if you did you never understood his mechanics.

He couldn't ignore Camille ult if it was cast on him.
Whatever was left of Morg Q would still affect Ornn when it came back.
This isn't what made him OP. What made him OP was the massive damage buffs he received.