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I feel like that these new runes

kargish··27 votes·1,484 views

Will be the end of the game. Not literally but it sounds really really bad in my opinion.

If you're unaware Riot announced a new mastery/rune that allows you to swap summoner spells mid-game.

https://i.gyazo.com/dedade2c3a3f20f6b9bc1bbe4fa4eb6d.png

This is going to break the game like Bane broke Batman's back, it'll say snap on any form of meta or resemblance we have currently. Just imagine someone like Talon picking summoner 3 summoner 14 to increase his already high first blood rate, and then once he has cast 3 summoner spells (or 2 the first time) he can just swap it to summoner 4summoner 1 and be as safe as ever. Even aggressive supports (Blitzcrank Thresh) can do this and then just go back to their safety spells again.

You can never counterbuild your opponent with this mastery, because they can just adapt to your new strategy. You can never keep someone fed down, usually you'll try to do so with summoner 3 but suddenly the enemy has summoner 1 item 3140 and no amount of exhaust or cc will keep them down.

This is just one of the new masteries/runes I think are weird and unnecessary, but I decided to focus on this one as I thought it's more impactful.

37 Comments

Kloqdq23 votes

There is a clear trade off for one, taking this mastery and two, for not having flash. Sure he has ignite exhaust but as a jungler, I will just camp the ever living fuck out of him while he has to wait to get flash. You are also trading out a damage or utility rune for this so while yes, you can swap runes, you are actually getting cucked out of having just raw damage increases. This is fine and you have to consider the whole rune system rather than just one rune.

ChaosThief3 votes

Not only that, but as soon as he swaps the summoner spells, he will lose quite a bit of pressure (no more exhaust or ignite to help him win the fight), meaning he has to be very, very ahead for this to be effective in the first place.

Kloqdq3 votes

Pretty much this ^

I saw a person commenting on how effective this would be for each role and I agreed with it. Basically support and jungle can make the most out of this and even then they could have some stuff that is more important this this. Depending on how it works with Smite, it could be a good jungle take on stuff like Ivern or Nunu or Cho or something.

InstaPoppy1 votes

{quoted}

There is a clear trade off for one, taking this mastery and two, for not having flash. Sure he has ignite exhaust but as a jungler, I will just camp the ever living fuck out of him while he has to wait to get flash. You are also trading out a damage or utility rune for this so while yes, you can swap runes, you are actually getting cucked out of having just raw damage increases. This is fine and you have to consider the whole rune system rather than just one rune.

And you could just take 2 defensive summoners if you wanted :^)

Kloqdq2 votes

Still you have to use 6 summoner spells to swap out 2 options. In a lot of games this will more than likely have little affect on people. Most people with exhaust would rather just keep exhaust and if you have ignite you would normally just be fine with it. Honestly, this rune feels pretty lackluster the more I look at it.

This Is Your Dad6 votes

I think they're cool. Of course they'll be broken, but they'll tweak it.

SpookyNeedle4 votes

Talon has ignite/exhaust? Take exhaust/flash or exhaust/barrier. Also gank him cuz no flash

General Esdeath 1 votes

Then he E's over a wall

SpookyNeedle1 votes

{quoted}

Then he E's over a wall

I knew someone would say this, in mid lane, he'd have to run right or left to hop a wall. Not too useful unless he's in the river. Takin is like Quinn, situational mobility (with her E over wall, or letting her channel her ult) but otherwise she's pretty immobile Talon has to be near a wall (unless he has ult) but if he uses his ult to escape he can't use it to kill you. I'd call it a win.

General Esdeath 1 votes

And his ult plus item 3142 gives him the mobility and stealth to make it to that wall like you said.

Trust me, he doesn't need his ult to kill you.

SpookyNeedle1 votes

{quoted}

And his ult plus item 3142 gives him the mobility and stealth to make it to that wall like you said.

Trust me, he doesn't need his ult to kill you.

I assumed we were talking about the laning phase, around levels 1-5

General Esdeath 1 votes

I rush GB on Talon sometimes, and even after first item lanes tend to still be in laning phase until around 10-14 minutes.

Cowseed4 votes

....FALSE!!! Stop being so paranoid and think about this. When the new rune system goes live we won't have stat runes and if talon takes this he can't take thunderlords. Which is going to decrease is overall burst the entire game. Even if he does get an early kill he might not even be able to snowball as much as he used to. This could very well just turn into a cheese tactic not worth the risk.

Can you at least try to be objective about this instead of just being a pessimist.

Wînter Fox3 votes

{quoted}

Just imagine someone like Talon picking summoner 3 summoner 14 to increase his already high first blood rate, and then once he has cast 3 summoner spells (or 2 the first time) he can just swap it to summoner 4summoner 1 and be as safe as ever.

This sounds amazing to me. It's a clever, solid strategy that takes ingenuity and skillful execution, and that's the whole point of the rune/masteries update - to put actual strategizing into the pre-game. Some things may be overtuned or undertuned in the beginning (as usual) but the overall goal Riot is trying to achieve with this I 1000% agree with.

When I face a Tryndamere top and he first blood's me with Exhaust and Ignite, I'll want to chuck my laptop out the window. But I still think overall it's great step forward and healthy for the game - and it forces me to come up with my own runes and personal strategy to prepare for that.

General Esdeath 2 votes

Exactly how I feel. When I play Riven top with summoner 4 summoner 14 I'm taking a gamble that I can win the first fight. If I lose, now I'm kinda screwed, but my mistake now comes with no risk as I can just swap summoner 14 for summoner 12 and farm up.

Shadòw2 votes

which also goes at the cost of having to skill into the Inspiration tree on an Damage oriented champion, meaning you are trading damage oriented runes for more utility. this also means that you probably lose the first fight if your enemy went for damage runes and you just hop right in. you always have to consider that these keystone Runes aren't free.

not everybody will take this keystone, and if they do, they have to give up something for it.

also, they are still looking what they do with the cooldowns, but you probably won't be able to just blast both summoners, trade, and have a summoner without CD.

you always have to look at the full picture with this Runes and be clear that with every rune you take, you are giving up another Rune which could suit your champ and playstyle better and give you other advantages.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Even a tank champ with utility could do this. Nasus Darius Malphite

Shadòw1 votes

...but at the cost of losing damage or something else Runes could give

General Esdeath 1 votes

Some champs don't need raw damage, just enough time to get what they need, like Nasus Q stacks, Darius bleed stacks, etc.

Shadòw2 votes

ofc on some, or even most champs there hopefully will be more than one tree viable.

and this is exactly what Riot is trying to achieve. that you have to consider in pregame what you need and take your Runes based on situation and playstyle.

Raw Damage is always something you can make use of. you can't just say that a Champ doesn't need Raw Damage. especially on a champ like Darius you can't have enough Damage, more is always better. this Damage might win you some trades or lets you come out ahead in a all-in where your enemy might have survived with 5% HP else. and from this you could end up snowballing, which might wouldn't have happened if you didn't have that little extra damage in that one all-in.

so if you want even more Damage and don't think you need anything else, you go for Damage runes.

but if you think you need to give up some Damage for something else, you go for other Runes instead. sometimes it might actually be better to go for defensive or utility runes, for example if you end up in a bad matchup that you don't plan on winning. in such a situation it would probably actually be good to maybe take the summoner swap keystone and start with summoner 3 instead of summoner 4, and switch that later.

when the system won't end up that every champion only has 1 viable primary tree and keystone then it is a success.

General Esdeath 1 votes

Making use of =/= need it

Talon needs raw damage. He doesn't need defensive stats, but he can make use of them. Doesn't mean tank Talon will become a thing.

And your second point is exactly like what I described. Some matchups are purely based on who gets the kill first.

Shadòw1 votes

exactly, and to get the kill first, you might need damage runes.

all that depends on your situation and playstyle.

Jorencice1 votes

Don't think cleanse actually cleanses exhaust.

Darkdemon6536 votes

{quoted}

Don't think cleanse actually cleanses exhaust.

It does. It also removes ignite.

Terozu1 votes

It removes everything but suppression.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Not everything.

All CC except suppression and airborne, and all summoner spell debuffs. It does not affect any other debuffs, otherwise it'd be a godly choice against Zed.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

You can cleanse airborne technically. It removes the stun part of the displacement allowing you to override the airborne status with a movement spell such as a Flash or dash.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

The spell itself says "all disables except for suppression and airborne".

Nyarlathοtep1 votes

Im afraid soon enough this will be our reality.

Limrick1 votes

You have to cast 5 summoner spells to switch both, so summoner 3 summoner 14 isn't actually viable at all. Plus the spell is still on cooldown when you swap it out, so swapping ignite for TP isn't as good as people seem to think it will be. On top of that, you lose all of the other keystones to run this, and some of them are really powerful, and downright required for some champs.

PePsiLemoNN1 votes

You actually gave the worst possible example lol

{quoted}

There is a clear trade off for one, taking this mastery and two, for not having flash. Sure he has ignite exhaust but as a jungler, I will just camp the ever living fuck out of him while he has to wait to get flash. You are also trading out a damage or utility rune for this so while yes, you can swap runes, you are actually getting cucked out of having just raw damage increases. This is fine and you have to consider the whole rune system rather than just one rune.

Shadòw1 votes

the thing is, like already being said, you have to take this tree as your primary tree on an Assassin like Talon then.

that means you are lacking a damage keystone and have to take 3 other Runes of this tree, and can only take 2 Runes of the damage tree. or you also can't take the roaming keystone (can't remember the name right now) that would suit Talon well.

the system with keystones is basically the same as it is now. if you want a specific keystone you can't take another and you have to skill in that specific tree.

Meep Man1 votes

On the other hand, this opens up the meta a ton since now champions that were previously never seen because crowd control wrecks them can be potentially get Cleanse without a huge sacrifice.

Iota Theta1 votes

As others have said, if Talon goes that route, he loses out on some decent damage related runes, due to having to soec heavily into the utility rune tree, to be able to swap a spell every once in a while, cause I doubt he'd use them on CD. Supports might have an easier time, but there might still be runes elsewhere they can use better, like the shielding of an ally, or a slow at the start of a fight (how bout a thresh that can auto you to slow you and either get a more guarenteed hook or your flash)

FantasySniper1 votes

Being able to swap out summoner spells is way too powerful. You can start out with a shorter CD spell for lane pressure, and then swap out for the ideal SS afterwards.

Imagine the cheese that could happen if everyone on the team could swap to Exhaust to shutdown a fed carry or Teleport for the 5 man bum-rush.

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