Split-pushing in Solo Q

WESTFALL·Mar 22, 2015·2 votes·977 views

Okay so first of all I understand that most of you people assume that split-pushing is a viable way to win games and everything .

So I guess what I'm gonna say may sound controversial and maybe stupid for some ignorant players that won't bother reasoning before jumping to conclusions.

But, let's analyze this a bit .

Split-pushing

When you split-push in a Solo Q game, you force other players to defend 4v5 or lose the game . If they disagree with you split-pushing then you shouldn't do it, and if you still do it after they clearly disagreed you deserve to be punished for refusing to communicate with your team.

Why is that , you may ask. Well it's because you're imposing a play style onto 4 other players. You force them to play as you want or accept defeat.

Does this seem fair to you ? One player deciding what others should do ? It's selfish and in most cases it implies a risk that not every player in your team wants to take.

30 Comments

JbelsMar 22, 20153 votes

This is dumb. This is actually a post. This is dumb. How the hell is it unfair for one person on your team to split push? I'm sorry but when it comes down to it I'd rather have a Master Yi split pushing then in the teamfight, since he can just be CC'd and bursted down anyway. Aside from that, if the guy deems it appropriate to split push, He probably has a reason to be doing so, and if not, he's probably trolling and it's 4v5 anyway.

WESTFALLMar 22, 20152 votes

I totally explained " how the hell is it unfair for one person in your team to split push " but you just ignored it and asked me again.

You now assume that every dude that tries to do something else than what's deemed normal has reasons to be doing so , apart from their own ignorant desire to do so.

Split - pushing basically means, I'm just gonna ignore all of you and try to win the game by myself.

I don't know how much better it is on your server, but on my server, every time someone tries to split-push we end up losing .

It is very situational as I said, which makes it generally unfair for your teammates .

Think of it this way:

Instead of split-pushing , I want to do Baron, ** ALONE ** despite my team telling me not to. It is just like split-pushing , i want to get an objective alone .

If I fail and the enemy team gets baron and finishes the game is it my fault ? I bet you'd say yes.

It's the same thing with split-pushing, if i do it even though my team tells me not to, and fail, it is my fault and i deserve to be reported and punished for refusing to communicate with them .

Hinagiku33Mar 22, 20151 votes

Sneaking off to do Dragon alone can win games. Used to be even better when it gave global gold since it help you catch up.

Sneaking off to do Baron alone used to be viable. Now it's too tough and you'll just get executed. If it's late, late game then two might be able to take it but it's really risky obviously.

Split-pushing is a critical strategy, especially for certain champs with bad team-fights. If I dominate my lane as Fiora I might be able to jump in and ult - but with my ridiculous ult cooldown it's often not up when I need it. Would you rather I jump into a fight just to get instantly CC'd -> 100-0'd? Because that'd feed them even more gold and probably set even more players on our team on tilt. As long as I won lane and have my core items, then Fiora makes creeps waves and towers disappear. I literally force someone to come and stop me or I'll be knocking on their inhibitor in no time.

Why is it that I can coordinate split-pushing and other teamwork-based strategies in my normal games but as soon as Ranked Solo Q gets involved everyone seemingly becomes incompetent children that can't handle even the basics?

WESTFALLMar 22, 20151 votes

Sneaking off to do Dragon alone can win games. Used to be even better when it gave global gold since it help you catch up.

That works because enemy players have no vision of you, when you try to split they do have vision of you and they can just smash your other 4 teammates around.

Split-pushing is a critical strategy, especially for certain champs with bad team-fights....

Okay i get your example, but then I ask, can't the enemy team just push towers just as fast if not faster than you as a team?

Not to mention if they actually manage to kill the rest of your teammates, they may go as far as getting objectives + kills because you were not there .

JbelsMar 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Phantom Panther,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tw2IBwZ1,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2015-03-22T13:25:32.809+0000)

I totally explained " how the hell is it unfair for one person in your team to split push " but you just ignored it and asked me again.

You now assume that every dude that tries to do something else than what's deemed normal has reasons to be doing so , apart from their own ignorant desire to do so.

Split - pushing basically means, I'm just gonna ignore all of you and try to win the game by myself.

I don't know how much better it is on your server, but on my server, every time someone tries to split-push we end up losing .

It is very situational as I said, which makes it generally unfair for your teammates .

Think of it this way:

Instead of split-pushing , I want to do Baron, ** ALONE ** despite my team telling me not to. It is just like split-pushing , i want to get an objective alone .

If I fail and the enemy team gets baron and finishes the game is it my fault ? I bet you'd say yes.

It's the same thing with split-pushing, if i do it even though my team tells me not to, and fail, it is my fault and i deserve to be reported and punished for refusing to communicate with them .

You really need to stop acting like people HAVE to play the way you want to. It's a team game, not a dictatorship starring you. If people want to splitpush, they are well within their rights to splitpush. Just because it's a team game doesn't mean anyone has to play like they are on a team. It just helps you win better

WESTFALLMar 25, 20151 votes

You really need to stop acting like people HAVE to play the way you want to.** It's a team game**, not a dictatorship starring you.

Exactly. It's a team game, but you apparently defend people who "act like people HAVE to play the way they want to ".

Because that's exactly what you do when you decide to split push.

As i said before, split pushing may work to get one tower and stuff during a game, but split pushing from the start to the beginning just because that's the way you want to win the game is stupid and is punish worthy.

Also when you decide to split-push while your whole team tells you not to, and you eventually lose the game, you're also punish worthy

Nucleophilic atkMar 22, 20151 votes

You have a bad Yi if he is diving before the enemy team uses their CC.

Sailor MintMar 22, 20152 votes

If I'm a top laner with teleport available, I will split push and I expect the enemy top laner to do the same.

You can choose between a 4-1 or a 1-3-1. I will show up to objectives (i.e.: Dragon). I expect you to not fight 4v5 and to be smart enough to place wards down for me to teleport.

If you decide to kill yourselves to defend an half health outer turret, it has nothing to do with split pushing.

WESTFALLMar 22, 20151 votes

If you decide to kill yourselves to defend an half health outer turret, it has nothing to do with split pushing.

It seems that you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of them getting caught or being tower dived .

It's not hard to towerdive 4 players with 5 people. The tank can initiate absorbing tower damage and the others can just melt your teammates.

And you also assume that if one gets caught they are all "not smart enough" .

You people don't understand that it's enough for one of those 4 players to do a small mistake for your tactic to be useless .

straight4freeMar 22, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Phantom Panther,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tw2IBwZ1,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-03-22T02:04:58.335+0000)

It seems that you refuse to acknowledge the possibility of them getting caught or being tower dived .

It's not hard to towerdive 4 players with 5 people. The tank can initiate absorbing tower damage and the others can just melt your teammates.

And you also assume that if one gets caught they are all "not smart enough" .

You people don't understand that it's enough for one of those 4 players to do a small mistake for your tactic to be useless .

That seems to me like you're really behind & are overextended as a result.

EvilRabbittMar 22, 20152 votes

Split-pushing is a highly viable strategy, not to mention a THEORETICAL COMP type.

Seriously. Defending 3 lanes with highly mobile rotating pushers is incredibly aggrivating.

Udyr Jax Aatrox Jinx Fiora All ad, but as other math has shown- sometimes armor ~~can't~~ win.

Hinagiku33Mar 22, 20151 votes

That's because Riot decided that AD gets to outscale Armor to make sure games end properly.

Honestly, I'd play with a team that wants to have multiple rotating threats over a team that insists we can have to stick together and smash ourselves into the enemy team 24/7 any day.

EvilRabbittMar 22, 20151 votes

I prefer mobile teams like that too. I've lost my mind when people are like "all mid"...and mid has 2 towers still, while top is 50% hp last turret til inhib.... I usually ditch and go take that inhib because its bogus xD.

Nucleophilic atkMar 22, 20152 votes

While split pushing in itself is OK, people are really trolly with doing it. They try to split push when the enemy team is way ahead and can dive a 4v5 and win. It's stupid.

WESTFALLMar 22, 20151 votes

Agree

WukongMainMar 22, 20151 votes

but its okay for 4 players to tell that 1 guy he cant split push? a method he does with great success.

just cause hes outnumbered doesn't make it right for him to have to not splitpush

and if hes always splitpushed, chances are hes teamfighting abilities suck..just suck it up and 4v5. just kite back, DO NOT fight them. DO NOT give them a chance to initiate, unless you're under turret. they will have to send people to stop him from ending the game... thus you arent fighting a 4v5 anymore.

WESTFALLMar 22, 20151 votes

but its okay for 4 players to tell that 1 guy he cant split push?

a method he does with great success.

It is, because to win a game you need to communicate and respect what your team needs and considers.

Split-pushing implies taking a huge risk. Some players would rather take no risk than accept a huge one .

What makes you eligible to decide the risk your team will take ?

It's like you being in a car ( LoL game ) with 4 other people (teammates) that want to get to the same destination (win) as you, and out of all 5 you want to go on a more dangerous road (split-push). Guess who's fault would it be if your car crashes (you lose) ?

just cause hes outnumbered doesn't make it right for him to have to not splitpush

As i said before, split-pushing is selfish , it implies you doing something while the others wait for you to do it.

It's like playing a football game and telling everyone to pass the ball to you only. Or making everyone play in defense while you're the only attacker. You want to put the spotlight on yourself.

It is in no way fair for your teammates.

and if hes always splitpushed, chances are hes teamfighting abilities suck..just suck it up and 4v5. just kite back, DO NOT fight them. DO NOT give them a chance to initiate, unless you're under turret. they will have to send people to stop him from ending the game... thus you arent fighting a 4v5 anymore.

Dude you don't have to give me those tips, or to anyone else.

Simply you telling your other 4 players what to do and what not to do should make it obvious to you that something here isn't fair .

I already know what to do in those scenarios, but it doesn't matter that if I know what to do when someone wants to split-push, I want to also take the risk that split-pushing implies .

OperationDEEZ1Mar 22, 20151 votes

Some champions aren't good in teamfights, but excel in split-pushing. Tryndamere , Shaco and Aatrox (Unless he's fed) come to mind. Your team should recognize when there are splitpushers in their comp and strategize accordingly. Majority does no always rule, when your team refuses to adapt and keep trying to fight battles they obviously cannot win, they are stupid and deserve to lose.

WESTFALLMar 22, 20151 votes

Well I don't really like your approach .

Let's put it this way :

I'm a decent player, now in my team I have a dude that wants to split push and 3 other teammates .

Now I see that one of my 3 teammates left is pretty , let's say unexperienced (not to call him bad) and trying to 4 v 5 while having an unexperienced player in this "fantastic 4" would be disastrous .

If I tell the split pusher to come teamfight instead , it doesn't mean that "I'm stupid and that I deserve to lose " . Like you put it. It means that split-pushing just won't work in that situation.

Split pushing is very very situational, not only based on champion picks but also on the players you have in your team

Hinagiku33Mar 22, 20151 votes

If you have someone that stupid to force-engage a 4v5 you were going to lose that game anyway.

So rather than let your 5th player do something they excel at (split-pushing) you want to force them to enter a fight they are already bad at just so they can die with you to make you and maybe one other player feel better?

If we aren't fed enough or have the wrong comp to engage in a full 5v5 fight, I will take the opportunity to try and win the game and split up their team. If one of my teammates is "inexperienced" (i.e. bad at the game) and doesn't understand that sometimes your team just isn't as strong and a change of strategy is necessary...well then we lose because we had worse players on our team.

Players that don't know how to shift to split-pushing if needed have no business playing Ranked.

WESTFALLMar 22, 20151 votes

If you have someone that stupid to force-engage a 4v5 you were going to lose that game anyway.

It's pretty ignorant to assume that. No you were not going to necessarily lose that game, cause he would just engage in a 5v5 otherwise balancing the chances of winning .

So rather than let your 5th player do something they excel at (split-pushing) you want to force them to enter a fight they are already bad at just so they can die with you to make you and maybe one other player feel better?

Since when do we presume that the split-pusher excels at it ? Isn't that an exaggeration just to make your argument a bit stronger ?

As i said before , there are no champions that are only good at split pushing and nothing else, and there are no people that can only split-push and suck at teamfights.

If the 5th player gets in a teamfight instead of splitting you can't just ignorantly assume that he would just die without doing anything helpful. There's the flaw in your logic .

Players that don't know how to shift to split-pushing if needed have no business playing Ranked.

What I'm saying is that you can't split - push if you have no coordination with your team. So why do it ? It's stupid.

If you already know that the rest of your teammates would just die in a 4v5 why try to split push and assure the fact that you'll lose instead of trying to do what you can in a teamfight ?

redniwediSMar 22, 20151 votes

In solo queue it all depends on the flow of the game. If your team is in a defensive stance you have two choices:

Split push hard, forcing the enemy team to either give up their numbers advantage or give up objectives.
Join your team.

If your team is successfully defending either option is good. If you push you'll give your team a better shot at winning an engagement, and if you join your team you might tip the balance, forcing a winning teamfight and allowing your team to take more or larger objectives.

If your team is not successfully defending it's a bit different. You have to make a judgement call over whether your presence would change anything. If you think you can assist your team and keep the enemy from taking your objectives it's clearly best to go help, however if you can't do anything but can sneak one or two enemy objectives that's clearly the better option.

If your team is in an offensive stance you have to make another judgement call. If your team is a single won team fight away from victory you should group, if not you should split push and force down more objectives.

This is where things typically go wrong. It's solo queue, you're not with a team that is necessarily reliable. You have to match your team's movements, not the other way around. Split pushing requires the enemy team to be pressured elsewhere. If they are on the offensive they are pressuring themselves, but if they are on the defensive you cannot be out pushing towers when your team is not doing the same.

Good split pushing champions have either fantastic dueling potential or fantastic escapes, but you shouldn't rely on either of these. Let your team draw the enemies attention away from whatever lane you plan on pushing, and most importantly of all never assume your team will apply pressure just because you are split pushing!

Now, to respond to the OP, different champions have different playstyles inherent to their kits. A team's strengths and weaknesses are based around their champion kits, which makes each combination of champions different. A player using a split pusher needs to recognize their team's needs just as much as the rest of the team needs to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of the split pusher.

This is an issue that should be solved in champion select or not at all. If you do not want to face a 4v5 for any reason (which is silly and reduces the amount of flexibility your team has strategy wise) make this known before someone picks a strong split pusher. If someone picks a split pusher anyway suck it up, it's not your job to impose your opinions on someone else. If they are a good split pusher they will do their job while still assisting the team, and if not they do not fully understand the role they have chosen, and that's a detriment dealt out by matchmaking alone.

TLDR: Split pushers should inform their team in champion select so they can pick a strong 4v5 comp. Players uncomfortable in handling 4v5s should inform their team so split pushers can be avoided. You only get to play your role, so if your opinion gets overruled just let it go and try your best. In the end there are always bad players who don't do what their team needs, however no strategy should be judged based on the actions of these bad players.

WESTFALLMar 22, 20151 votes

I do respect your understanding and the work you've put in this reply.

But this :

If someone picks a split pusher anyway suck it up, it's not your job to impose your opinions on someone else.

Is a bit wrong.

You see , the split-pusher does that to his teammates, not vice-versa . You already impose your opinion on 4 people by simply trying to split-push without consent . That is basically refusing to use teamwork .

supes the lostMar 22, 20151 votes

the question is though, before and during the match, do you have any ability to effect this person should he play a split push champ. I mean, if worse comes to worse, you could dodge or report him at the end, but other then that, you kinda do have to suck it up, since you can't really change what your allies are doing.

redniwediSMar 22, 20151 votes

That's partly what I'm saying, just not in that particular line. If someone feels they are better off playing a split pushing champion, either because of enemy picks, allied picks, or because of a limited champion pool, they are allowed to do so.

Keep this one thing in mind, split pushing does not mean never grouping to help your team. The split push only mindset is a noob trap and cannot be used as a baseline to judge split pushing as a strategy. This right here is why I explained the different judgement calls a split pusher must make.

That said if someone is unwilling to work with their team there is literally nothing constructive you can do besides trying anyway. It's a sad truth, but it's a truth we all have to deal with.

WESTFALLMar 22, 20151 votes

Well, from what you say I guess you're referring to "split-pushing" as a form of situation during a game rather than an all around tactic.

What I'm talking about is people who enter the game thinking that split pushing is all they will do the whole game.

Of course split-pushing may work to take that one tower or to take an objective, but as an all around tactic based on the whole game it's really flawed .

redniwediSMar 22, 20151 votes

It is a situational tactic on some champions. I often find times to split push when playing Garen, who is not known for his split pushing power. On strong split pushers, however, it is an all around tactic, and part of that tactic is knowing when to split push, when to group, and most importantly of all when to not split push.

What I'm talking about is people who enter the game thinking that split pushing is all they will do the whole game.

Yeah...

The split push only mindset is a noob trap and cannot be used as a baseline to judge split pushing as a strategy.

It's the same for people who use the "only group" mindset. People who are unwilling or unable to see that all strategies require flexibility are idiots and should be ignored.

ErockandrollMar 22, 20151 votes

Does your team have a tank? IF not you really can't excel in a team fight.

Being a split push threat requires that your fed to the point where not one person can stop you. And that you can take turrets quickly. But this does not necessarily mean you have a good split push comp. because the rest of your team needs something to prevent the 4v5, And the answer to that is usually wave clear. Prevent the enemy minions from tanking turret.

But even if your split pushing, you shouldn't abandon your laners, you should have your TP available when you are split pushing so you can join the fray if a fight breaks out. And if you don't have TP, then you probably should not stray too far from the team.

in the end. It's team comp related. You claim that the rest of the team would die in a 4v5, but a good split push team would never let the 4v5 happen. Because they have enough wave clear to keep them off of turrets, and they have enough disengage, to prevent the fight from happening.

WESTFALLMar 22, 20151 votes

A good split push team would never let the 4v5 happen but we're talking about Solo Q mate.

Where will you see that kind of coordination in a SoloQ game ?

Also check this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JOkwakfbUI

Pawnce shows people exactly what it takes and how easy it is to destroy a split push .

ErockandrollMar 22, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Phantom Panther,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Tw2IBwZ1,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-03-22T15:28:26.746+0000)

A good split push team would never let the 4v5 happen but we're talking about Solo Q mate.

Where will you see that kind of coordination in a SoloQ game ?

Also check this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JOkwakfbUI

Pawnce shows people exactly what it takes and how easy it is to destroy a split push .

your right that YoloQ does not have that level of coordination. But the video kinda proves my point.

The enemy team in that video isn't even a split push team to begin with. Shaco is an Assassin, not a fighter. And their cho'goth means that they would probably have better team fight over the enemy. And like I said about getting engaged on. You have little disengage with a Zed, cho'goth, Miss Fortune, and Leona.

Again, it's a matter of Team comp and whether you have the tools to make a split push work. The enemy team in the video was not playing to their teams strengths.