There has been a mistake made in the 5.6 patch notes

WESTFALL·Mar 25, 2015·53 votes·5,006 views

The Zed nerfs don't show up ...

51 Comments

JuicymanMar 25, 201510 votes

I was about to complain about how the EPIC play making champions for the past few patches/months haven't been touched but Irelia and LB at least got something.

I'm not defending Sejuani but I enjoy how she's problematic for about one patch and instantly nerfed when you have these others who've been constantly banned for months and nothing comes from it.

Nucleophilic atkMar 25, 201517 votes

I can't even comprehend how small the LB nerfs are lol. They legit are about the same as the scratching of Zed's attack speed a couple patches ago lol.

1st HanarSpectreMar 25, 201517 votes

Did you miss the part where they clearly said

Let's level here: We actually think LeBlanc is pretty okay. Though she's polarizing in the same way Nidalee can be when successful, she serves as a counterbalance to a lot of other strong picks and keeps things interesting. We're tuning her damage back slightly to relieve some of the pressure other midlaners have to deal with against her, but Leblanc as a champion is performing pretty close to our expectations overall.

IE Leblanc is in a good spot balance wise according to Riot.

ScurvyNaveMar 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=1st HanarSpectre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G5hWk5Qz,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-25T01:36:39.523+0000)

Did you miss the part where they clearly said

IE Leblanc is in a good spot balance wise according to Riot.

She also makes LC$ BIG PLAY$ so she gets the anti nerf buff that Zed and Lee Sin get.

Sejuani and Sion are tanks and therefore they don't make too flashy of plays and therefore must suffer according to Riot

1st HanarSpectreMar 25, 20159 votes

{quoted}

She also makes LC$ BIG PLAY$ so she gets the anti nerf buff that Zed and Lee Sin get.

Sejuani and Sion are tanks and therefore they don't make too flashy of plays and therefore must suffer according to Riot

I know you people like to misuse your LC$BIGPLAYS dank memes and and all that, but seriously, Sejuani has a higher pick rate, a higher ban rate, a higher win rate than Leblanc does, both in ranked, and unranked. So why is it a crime to nerf Sejuani now? Really, please answer me that question in your infinite meme wisdom.

ScurvyNaveMar 25, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=1st HanarSpectre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G5hWk5Qz,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-25T01:45:55.262+0000)

I know you people like to misuse your LC$BIGPLAYS dank memes and and all that, but seriously, Sejuani has a higher pick rate, a higher ban rate, a higher win rate than Leblanc does, both in ranked, and unranked. So why is it a crime to nerf Sejuani now? Really, please answer me that question in your infinite meme wisdom.

I just find it ironic that the moment tanks begin to rise to power they get nerfed one patch later whereas the assassins got free reign the entire last season.

Sej may be strong but so was Lee sin all of season 4.

1st HanarSpectreMar 25, 20155 votes

{quoted}

I just find it ironic that the moment tanks begin to rise to power they get nerfed one patch later whereas the assassins got free reign the entire last season.

Sej may be strong but so was Lee sin all of season 4.

That's not answering the question at all, merely a poor attempt at deflection. P.S All assassins have been nerfed, and continue to get nerfed as of 5.6.

ScurvyNaveMar 25, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=1st HanarSpectre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G5hWk5Qz,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-25T01:50:12.897+0000)

That's not answering the question at all, merely a poor attempt at deflection.

Sorry for the tangent

It's a crime to nerf Sejuani now because others have gotten away with power spikes like hers for much longer. The tanks finally get something and then immediately its removed.

It's just my opinion and I hope I made it more clear.

1st HanarSpectreMar 25, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Sorry for the tangent

It's a crime to nerf Sejuani now because others have gotten away with power spikes like hers for much longer. The tanks finally get something and then immediately its removed.

It's just my opinion and I hope I made it more clear.

The nerf to Sejuani are of the same magnitude as the Zed one you infered as pointless. So, again, a slap on the wrist of Zed is an affront to all that is holy, but a slap on the wirst of Sejuani is the devil reincarnated into patch notes?

Arcane AzmadiMar 25, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=1st HanarSpectre,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G5hWk5Qz,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-25T01:59:49.471+0000)

The nerf to Sejuani are of the same magnitude as the Zed one you infered as pointless. So, again, a slap on the wrist of Zed is an affront to all that is holy, but a slap on the wirst of Sejuani is the devil reincarnated into patch notes?

Actually, the 2nd Sej nerf (the one to her ult) is pretty savage. I read Riot's justification for it, but I don't agree with it. Glacial Prison is meant to be a MAJOR hard engage tool; if you fail to connect with it you still catch the enemy team out, but the penalty for missing is that they can still fight back, Flash out, AA or use abilities etc. Riot apparently decided that the penalty for missing with Glacial Prison (and it's actually a surprisingly narrow skillshot) is that the ability does virtually nothing and the enemy just gets to stroll away. 50 or 60% I could have lived with, but a 30% slow lasting 1.25-1.75 seconds is effectively meaningless. And still being able to follow it with Permafrost isn't much of a compensation. There's a reason pre-remake Sej's ult stunned everyone in the AoE for 1 second even if it whiffed completely.

So no, comparing the Sej nerf to the Zed nose-tweak is completely disingenuous.

1st HanarSpectreMar 25, 20158 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcane Azmadi,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=G5hWk5Qz,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-03-25T02:32:45.353+0000)

Actually, the 2nd Sej nerf (the one to her ult) is pretty savage. I read Riot's justification for it, but I don't agree with it. Glacial Prison is meant to be a MAJOR hard engage tool; if you fail to connect with it you still catch the enemy team out, but the penalty for missing is that they can still fight back, Flash out, AA or use abilities etc. Riot apparently decided that the penalty for missing with Glacial Prison (and it's actually a surprisingly narrow skillshot) is that the ability does virtually nothing and the enemy just gets to stroll away. 50 or 60% I could have lived with, but a 30% slow lasting 1.25-1.75 seconds is effectively meaningless. And still being able to follow it with Permafrost isn't much of a compensation. There's a reason pre-remake Sej's ult stunned everyone in the AoE for 1 second even if it whiffed completely.

So no, comparing the Sej nerf to the Zed nose-tweak is completely disingenuous.

Uhh wut? You miss a skillshot on other champion and guess what happens. Hint, it's nothing. Land your ult, there is absolutely 0 changes then.

Arcane AzmadiMar 25, 20151 votes

I don't agree, but that's beside the point.

This doesn't change the fact that it's still a MAJOR nerf to her, which is the entire point. Comparisons to the last Zed "nerf" are still utterly baseless.

KatCraftMar 25, 20151 votes

Sej needed to get hit hard, the numbers show it. While Zed is annoying because of his kit and design, Sejuani's overall power and strength at the moment is too much.

Balancing design issues are genuinely significantly harder to do than power issues which is why Zed and Lee don't get much attention while solo Q monsters like Sej do.

NarasimhaMar 25, 20152 votes

Its because a strong tank is much more of a pain than a strong assassin. A strong assassin, at its best, will kill people. A strong tank can can not only prevent that, but has more to offer in objective taking as well (tanking towers, tanking baron, etc).

Edge of DaybreakMar 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I just find it ironic that the moment tanks begin to rise to power they get nerfed one patch later whereas the assassins got free reign the entire last season.

Sej may be strong but so was Lee sin all of season 4.

Lee sin is currently at a 45% winrate on lolking. Probably the lowest I have ever seen him. Lee sin is strong in the hands of high elo players. Anything plat and less he is basically a liability to the enemy team. If you are in that range then the only reason you are complaining about him is due to bandwagoning.

Dont try to throw all tanks under the bus. Sion was already strong before this and so was Sejuani. All they got was more buffs so of course they need to be turned down.

magic poleMar 25, 20152 votes

OP fotm sejuani gets a nerf.

ALL TANKS THEY ALL NERFED!! WTF RITO

Drunk RummateMar 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I just find it ironic that the moment tanks begin to rise to power they get nerfed one patch later whereas the assassins got free reign the entire last season.

Sej may be strong but so was Lee sin all of season 4.

Lee Sin and Assassins were strong for a long time because of the meta and design. That's completely independent from their balance. They weren't winning 55%+ of their games like Sejuani. Notice how she's the only tanky champion to be nerfed while all the others are receiving buffs in addition to the new item?

PrinceOfGamesMar 25, 20151 votes

I think you're looking too high up the ladder. Sejuani isn't a problem in Bronze 5. Leblanc is.

Got a Sejuani problem in bronze 5? Get ashe? Got a leblanc problem in bronze 5? Shoot, good luck with that. Riot will keep you in bronze 5 if you dont ban her.

Nucleophilic atkMar 25, 20152 votes

Nope. I didn't miss that. My point is that they don't have a fucking clue what a "good spot" is lol. Yes, Zed and LB are in perfectly good spots...so is olaf, poppy, elise, and all the other champs they nerfed to the ground just because they don't make #LC$BIGPLAY$.

NarasimhaMar 25, 20151 votes

Elise JUST got buffed. Poppy is getting a rework. And short of a full rework, its impossible to balance Olaf. He'll either be trash tier, or an s2 terror again.

GLWuffieMar 25, 20155 votes

Really, I coulda swore I saw otherwise... let me see if I can find it....

hmm... item 3108 ...nah, where it is...

uh, item 3028 ....nope, not quite but maybe...

...

BAM! item 3174 FOUND IT! Enough mana sustain for AP mages to give them a chance to finally bully and get nerfed by next patch! But until then, more easier sustain in-lane gives mana-hungry ability champs a fighting chance against the AD mids~

~GL

PikaCHU567Mar 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Really, I coulda swore I saw otherwise... let me see if I can find it....

hmm... ...nah, where it is...

uh, ....nope, not quite but maybe...

...

BAM! FOUND IT! Enough mana sustain for AP mages to give them a chance to finally bully and get nerfed by next patch! But until then, more easier sustain in-lane gives mana-hungry ability champs a fighting chance against the AD mids~

~GL

Spammin E all day. Lux

Celeste BenalMar 25, 20151 votes

Karthus Spammin' Q all day. QQ more? hue

Nameless VoiceMar 25, 20152 votes

This really helps with the early game where Zed pushes you under your tower until you're oom, and won't let you recall because he's such a huge threat to your tower.

By the time you can afford Athene's, the laning phase is almost over.

Only Play DariusMar 25, 20155 votes

I have given up on Zed nerfs. Be happy that they are buffing weaker champions instead, it seems to be all they are willing to give us.

All I ask is you tone down his %AD passive, no assassin with that kind of mobility and safety should be capable of that kind of damage output.

JedenVojakMar 25, 20155 votes

That's because Zed doesn't need a nerf.

ModCaptainMårvelousMar 25, 20154 votes

They did nerf zed.

His name is Urgot and he's a bundle of Zed nerfs.

Silents429Mar 25, 20153 votes

Because the mana regen was buffed which was why he saw a rise in the first place.

ofartMar 25, 20152 votes

I feel Zed's only overly strong until teams adapt to him in mid-late and get Zhonya's/QSS & group more. I'm not convinced he's actually OP. This is coming from a guy who plays AP Kog mid and gets absolutely murdered by Zed.

KatCraftMar 25, 201510 votes

The problem is because of his passive, and his never needing to build anything but pure damage, Zhonya's and qss become irrelevent the longer the game goes because he can start sniping you without his ult. He doesn't fall off late game, he gets stronger.

It's not so much a problem that Zed is too strong, just that his kit is maddeningly annoying to play against compared to any other assassins. The only reason he doesn't have a 58% winrate is because a Zed can still make mistakes, but you can almost never outplay one. That's the biggest complaint people have, the feeling of helplessness when a Zed is not fucking up on his own.

Nameless VoiceMar 25, 20153 votes

This is a huge problem with some champions (CertainlyT's are especially bad offenders) - champions who can't really be outplayed, whose success or failure depends more on their own mistakes than on the other player's skill.

ScreamPasteMar 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The problem is because of his passive, and his never needing to build anything but pure damage, Zhonya's and qss become irrelevent the longer the game goes because he can start sniping you without his ult. He doesn't fall off late game, he gets stronger.

It's not so much a problem that Zed is too strong, just that his kit is maddeningly annoying to play against compared to any other assassins. The only reason he doesn't have a 58% winrate is because a Zed can still make mistakes, but you can almost never outplay one. That's the biggest complaint people have, the feeling of helplessness when a Zed is not fucking up on his own.

This is why Zed needs to be changed. Number changes aren't enough, his kit is inherently dependent on him misplaying, it's far too safe.

Duchess of DeerMar 25, 20152 votes

Zed isn't a champ thats op I'm so tired of seeing people QQ about him. qss negates his damage and ult can be easily juked out of if you time it right bork does physical damage so it's countered by armor is zed goes in and doesn't kill anyone he's the most useless person ever in a fight. Unless your bjergson in which case you're as strong as teemo global taunt.

CaptnJakSparrowMar 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Zed isn't a champ thats op I'm so tired of seeing people QQ about him. qss negates his damage and ult can be easily juked out of if you time it right bork does physical damage so it's countered by armor is zed goes in and doesn't kill anyone he's the most useless person ever in a fight. Unless your bjergson in which case you're as strong as teemo global taunt.

item 3142 item 3035 item 3071 item 3153 item 3117 item 3074 Build all teh armor you want bro. You'll still get facerolled.

BijornMar 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Zed isn't a champ thats op I'm so tired of seeing people QQ about him. qss negates his damage

Uhh. What? No it cant? Maybe you are talking about his ULT is countered by QSS?

and ult can be easily juked out of if you time it right

Yes every champ has a blink or someway to juke out of his ult at level 6.

bork does physical damage so it's countered by armor

LOL armor means nothing once Zed grabs a item 3134 as well as a item 3035 .

is zed goes in and doesn't kill anyone he's the most useless person ever in a fight. Unless your bjergson in which case you're as strong as teemo global taunt.

I dont agree that he is OP either just btw. I do think he needs to have a bit more risk in his kit though. Because he is one of if not the safest assassin right now (and has been for a long time).

ßongsMar 25, 20151 votes

they also say Nid is fine where she stands..

Laughing FishMar 25, 20151 votes

Zed's power will be knocked down a small amount due to the item 3174 changes. Most of his power comes from that he can freely farm while every other mid laner must worry about mana.

WESTFALLMar 25, 20152 votes

That's a really small amount though.

The main problem is that ultimate of his. It forces you to buy zhonya/qss/mercurial .

Not only that, but even after you buy those you don't have a guaranteed chance of surviving his ultimate.

Not to mention that if he basically gets fed it's gg.

I always insta-ban him . Hell i got 2 shotted as a lucian by a zed after i healed, flashed, dashed and qss'ed his ultimate. How the hell is that fair ?

Laughing FishMar 25, 20152 votes

I certainly have trouble with Zed as well, and I agree he needs to be knocked down a notch. I just don't think he is that overpowered, as much as all his counters are weak right now.

SmknWdlMar 25, 20151 votes

There has been a mistake in your brain....

You think zed is overpowered.

Altough if you had to change him id nerf his q and buff his attack speed and his e... make him into a jungling champion

WESTFALLMar 25, 20151 votes

I don't really want to be rude, but your opinion as a bronze V player on this subject is just as valuable as an amateur soccer player's opinion on Real Madrid's tactic against Barcelona .

Careful with that 9.3 average death ratio per game matey.

SmknWdlMar 25, 20152 votes

Why does ranking matter if i can give analytical and reasonable arguments for why a champion is overpowered or not overpowered. http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/ These are win rates. If you look at the last 7 days in platinum for win rates, i believe zed is around the same amount of victories as master yi. And with tanks gaining power, I'm sure his assassination gameplay will surely lose a bit of effectiveness. Im not saying win rates mean everything, because at the moment i believe it's either velkoz or nasus with the top win rate in challenger, but what I'm saying is for a champion to be overpowered they would need to be winning almost every game in almost every division. That is simply not so right now. If you look at challenger, zed as a similar number of picks to cho gath, and a similar win rate too. So really it has nothing to do with zed being overpowered, but it has to do with people not knowing how to play against him.

WESTFALLMar 25, 20152 votes

Did you give me an analytical and reasonable argument in you first post tho ?

Okay the same argument "people don't know how to play against him".

I can turn your argument around and say that zed has such a low win rate because "most people don't know how to play him properly".

A properly played zed can't be countered.

SmknWdlMar 25, 20151 votes

While I'm sure you have more experience playing against high leveled zeds than I do, I'm just going to say that I think he isn't that much of an issue if you dont feed him. If you are an adc main or something than yeah he's gonna one shot you. But i still think the best fix is to simply nerf his q and buff his e, and give his e bonus damage to monsters. That we he will be transitioned to a jungling role, as i believe he originally was intended to be played, because he wont have all that free poke in lane. Because i do agree that a skilled fed zed is hell to play against. Thoughts?

WESTFALLMar 25, 20151 votes

I never really pictured Zed to be a jungler.

That could be nice but i'm scared it might just become like Fizz jungle currently is ..

SmknWdlMar 25, 20151 votes

Is fizz jungle really strong? Ive really only seen one or two good fizz jungles, and they dont usually have that much damage until late-late game.