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Why the Olaf Rework is Still a Failure.... and why isn't riot looking at it???srsly?? @riot @morello

XxxLumberJackxxX··17 votes·4,901 views

So..... I'm not even going to get into how weak he is. (he is) This isn't a discussion about how his numbers need to be tweaked (they do).

But look at his kit and tell me.... What counter play and or important gameplay decisions does he have?

Q-Press it if an enemy is nearby. Pick uip axe if it isn't too inconveniant. W-press it for more dmg on Q and E or to farm under tower. It has lifesteal on it to so.... maybe them minions can heal you. You can't catch the enemy so they won't E-Press it if an enemy is REALLY nearby R-Press it... actually don't its terrible. Only press it in the direst of YOLOsituations

There are 0 decisions to be made anywhere in this kit. Enemy -dodge Q and then kite him to death Olaf- try to hit q, if you can't just sit back and be useless unless ghost is up and maybe you can run in angrily

What does Olaf's current kit contribute to his team in teamfights? An Aoe slow, minimal damage, some true damage if he can get close enough, and some awesome berzerker rage

What does olaf contribute as a splitpusher? Decent waveclear and tower threat. Not as much as trindamere or the lategame scaling of nasus. Zed also does it all better as do most assassins.

Obviously not every champion needs to be zed level mechanics (god dont scare me). But seriously... what does olaf DO? Even Nasus has more things he needs to think about in fights (am I whithering the right target? Is E placed so that they have to run through it or to me? When should I ult? What can I Q to get lifesteal?).

3 out of Olaf's 4 abilities are merely stat sticks. Free AD Free Lifesteal Free Dmg Free tankiness Free AS His passive? More stat stickery

Where is the play/counterplay?

And if he is going to be a passiver stat stick... Why can't he have good stats? Or some kind of identity on the map?

33 Comments

chumbler6 votes

Pro tip: Riot only has a few champions that they actually give a shit about. Olaf is not one of them.

ChargeItDownMid4 votes

[deleted]

XxxLumberJackxxX2 votes

The problem with olaf is that he slowly slipped into the irrelevant tier following his rework so people didn't pay as much attention. If you remember, the olaf rework was actually really successful right after the rework. He had an identity on sr and saw a decent amount of play at all levels but was not first pick/ban (he was basically where you want a balanced champion to be). He just slowly became irrelevant as top lane became more and more about ranged champions.

Olaf doesn't need a personal rework as much as he needs riot to balance the imbalances between ranged vs melee. Olaf is actually in a very good place among melee champions, melee champions as a class are just really weak right now.

Olaf was strong when SIVIR was strong. Sivir's ultimate allowed him to close the gap. When it got nerfed olaf stopped being viable. How is olaf in a good place when you consider that yasuo, zed, nasus, maokai, warwick, yi, udyr, are all melee? Tryndamere and fiora are melee... Tell me when you would want olaf over one of them

AGarner3 votes

I used to main Olaf until I realized he brings really nothing to teamfights, he's just so useless compared to the other top laners, junglers. And he is really boring to watch/play (W,E,AA,Q,AA,Q,AA,Q,AA,E,AA,Q,E etc. etc.)

The Red Warden3 votes

The main problem was that when he was finally reworked a few years ago the Rioter who did it (forgot the name) ignored almost all of the feedback from Olaf players on what they wanted him to be, instead they turned most of his stat boosts into other stat boosts.

They also can't remove the mana costs and their limitations because all that does is encourage him to just spam axes in lane and never really engage unless he knows he can get the kill. If they had actually changed the W into an active ability instead of just making it a boost to stats then maybe it would actually be different. All the W does now is male him near impossible to outduel meaning he has to be supremely kite-able. Yes, Olaf does need life steal but that could have just been made a passive part of the ability that scales 2/4/6/8/10% with every point while also giving it an aoe active that gives him the needed clear speed. That way he would still have the ability to clear jungle while also not being outduelable.

hashinshin3 votes

The main problem was that when he was finally reworked a few years ago the Rioter who did it (forgot the name) ignored almost all of the feedback from Olaf players on what they wanted him to be, instead they turned most of his stat boosts into other stat boosts.

They also can't remove the mana costs and their limitations because all that does is encourage him to just spam axes in lane and never really engage unless he knows he can get the kill. If they had actually changed the W into an active ability instead of just making it a boost to stats then maybe it would actually be different. All the W does now is male him near impossible to outduel meaning he has to be supremely kite-able. Yes, Olaf does need life steal but that could have just been made a passive part of the ability that scales 2/4/6/8/10% with every point while also giving it an aoe active that gives him the needed clear speed. That way he would still have the ability to clear jungle while also not being outduelable.

THIS is the real problem of the Olaf rework.

Olaf becomes impossible to duel with his W? That's the low ELO mentality that keeps Riot from doing anything meaningful. Why buff a champion if the outcome is just going to be low ELO dying to Olaf?

You say Olaf is unduelable with is W. I know immediately and can think of 3 champions that kill him in a straight 1v1 no matter what. But it's that mentality that Riot can't buff Olaf for. You'll pick Maokai, try to straight 1v1 Olaf, fail, then go to the forums to complain. So Riot keeps him weak enough so he doesn't do that.

Anidan2 votes

My main problem with that mentality is that it implies that he shouldn't be able to be an amazing duelist and be able to stick to a target. He can duel, therefore needs to be easily kited isn't a good excuse or reasoning. If he has a weakness that outrageous, he isn't that great of a duelist. Fiora, Jax and Tryn are all melee and while not too hard to kite are still harder to kite than Olaf unless he's allowed to continually land Axes and not only that, they're duelists. Then there's Lee Sin and company peeking through the foliage of the jungle, eyeing Olaf for free gold. Then we get to the ranged duelists...

Olaf's weaknesses are not made up for by his strengths, strengths which I struggle to call as such aside from the CC immunity which even then makes him a giant, red alert symbol of "Don't waste your CC on me, focus my friends I can't stop you from killing." Olaf needs buffed.

TerminatusOmega1 votes

it was Smashgizmo= and i'll keep saying this... during the rework of olaf, he was abusing Vi when she was freelo... S4 hes using yasou.

And I remember it well, he literally ignored all the great feedback and suggestions. I even think Morello had to defend him since he got downvoted.

On a very very short list of riot guys i despise, its Smash.

Bring BROLAF BACK. hell give him his old kit, before the failure of a rework.

Teridax682 votes

I partially disagree with this (Q does require a measure of skill and decision-making, you need to think about when you want to use your health to E, and R can allow Olaf far more freedom in teamfights than most other champions), but I completely agree that Olaf is way too stat-focused. He doesn't feel too strong, and doesn't really make that much of a unique contribution to his team, because any other champion can get his stat bonuses with items and do most of what he does. He's technically powerful, because all of those stats do represent a measure of power, but those steroids don't really have much of a wow factor, and don't really convey much of his theme as a berserker other than him being pretty good in melee combat. Overall, he should have less free stats and more power in his kit that's difficult or impossible to replicate through items (his W especially needs to change, as it's the least impressive part of his kit).

Salidfingers2 votes

Love it! Speak the Truth and get down voted. Rework wasn't a failer and Olaf can still compete against most ranges in top lane,

What really is bad is taking him into the jungle and think AXES will kill a lane when they can dash away.

Hay-Day Olaf Before rework Vs Current Olaf

Undertow

CoolDown: 8 Seconds Current: 7 Seconds (BUFF)

Mana cost 55 / 60 / 65 / 70 / 75 Current: 60 Mana Flat (BUFF)

Base damage 80/125/170/215/260 Current: 70/115/160/205/250 More power Mid lvls less power early and late (Power Adjustment)

Slow percent 24/28/32/36/40% Current: SLOW PERCENT: 29 / 33 / 37 / 41 / 45% (BUFF)

Slow duration 2.5 seconds flat Current: Slow duration increased to 1.5-2.5 seconds on distance (Power adjustment)

Slow no longer decays (Reverted)

Minimum distance added (400) Jungle cant pick up where you stand, But "Axes now make jungle monsters ignore unit collision (to better enable Olaf's axe pickup play in the jungle)"

Running for axes causes to much damage in jungle (NERF)

OVER ALL BUFF!

Vicious Strikes

CoolDown: 12 Seconds Current: 16 Seconds (Nerf)

Mana cost 40/45/50/55/60 Current: 30 Mana Flat (Buff)

Damage 7/14/21/28/35 Attack Damage Current: 40/50/60/70/80% attack speed. Maxing this first was always bad (Buff)

Added During Rework: provides 1% extra healing for every 2.5% health that Olaf is missing

Current: provides 1% extra healing for every 2% health that Olaf is missing (BUFF)

Spellvamp removed (Nerf)

OVER ALL BUFF!

Reckless Swing

Cooldown 9/8/7/6/5 seconds Current: 12/11/10/9/8 seconds,

Basic attacks lower the cooldown of Reckless Swing by 1 second

Technically Unchanged Early Game trades and Dueling per auto hits

CD and Attack speed makes this godly late game (Power adjustment/Buff)

Damage 100/160/220/280/340 Current: 70/115/160/205/250

0.4 total attack damage ratio added

With AD Ratio is to get keep same damege before reqork

Early game unchanged, MiD Tad Weaker Unless you get DPS item,

Late game depending on build; stronger. (Power adjustment/Late Game Buff)

Health cost is equal to 40% of total damage dealt (unchanged ratio)

Health cost is now refunded if it kills the target

Cannot be reduced 0% HP (Buff)

OVER ALL BUFF!

Ragnarok

Cooldown 100 Current: 120/100/80 (Power ajustment/Late Game Buff)

Mana cost removed (Buff)

Active reworked: now removes the bonus armor and magic resist passive and grants 40/60/80 bonus attack damage while active

Now provides 10/20/30 armor and magic resist passively

Was added in rework (Buff)

Attack Damage Replaced Armor Pen which gives Stronger E (Power adustment)

OVER ALL BUFF!

Stats:

Base mana reduced to 235 (from 270) (NERF)

Base Armor increased to 21 from 17 (BUFF)

                                                                                                  Now Over All NERFS:

Base mana reduced to 235 (from 270) (NERF)

Spellvamp removed (Nerf)

CoolDown: 12 Seconds Current: 16 Seconds (Nerf)

OMG he is TRASH now compared to before

Ulric Greatsword4 votes

Slow duration 2.5 seconds flat Current: Slow duration increased to 1.5-2.5 seconds on distance (Power adjustment)

No, that's not a power adjustment (meaning the numbers have been moved around without having the total reduced), that is a nerf. Any duration from 1.5 seconds - 2.4 seconds is less than 2.5 seconds.

Salidfingers2 votes

Well I don't consider it a Buff or Nerf, because i can still perma slow no matter what distance they are.

So it is still a neutral effect in change and the power of its effect has been adjusted that's why i call it that. I will not dispute your point, because you're also correct.

Ulric Greatsword2 votes

Yeah, it is something totally irrelevant, but I just thought I'd point it out.

Hasztalan22 votes

It is sooooooo fucking misleading as u type it. You forget the most important things: He lost a lot of passive VALUABLE stuff (arp,resistances) he got a tampering slow (which is THE nerf what killed him) a lesser base dmg on his E. ALl theese things adds up into a really terrible state where currently Olaf has no Viable option.

If you build him tanky, you deal no damage and will be shot down by the adc regardless.

If you build him dmg , you get blown up within 1seconds.

If you build a mix, you won't be tanky AND you deal no damage.

The biggest problem with the Olaf rework what i highlited in the NA forum was exactly that **it literally didnt do fucking shit for him, except made his "new"(-ish) kit perfect for abusing the current fotm op items mainly being: BORK , SV, RANDUIN . **

Guess what happened? All of thoose items got nerfed ---> Olaf went into the dumpster. Currently he is so bad it's not even funny. In the first 15 minutes of game you can do some cool tricks with him, but after that no matter how fed you are, how much ahead you are, you'Ll be laughed at and simply get blown up. He needs a damn rework again.

XxxLumberJackxxX1 votes

tldr

Um. Did you read the first two sentences?

Salidfingers1 votes

It is sooooooo fucking misleading as u type it. You forget the most important things: He lost a lot of passive VALUABLE stuff (arp,resistances) he got a tampering slow (which is THE nerf what killed him) a lesser base dmg on his E. ALl theese things adds up into a really terrible state where currently Olaf has no Viable option.

Keep landing those (Q's) and he will constantly be slowed. If he dashes away or runs the opposite of your (Q's) then nothing has changed from before.

  • Reckless Swing

  • Damage 100/160/220/280/340 Current: 70/115/160/205/250

  • 0.4 total attack damage ratio added.

With just AD runes alone you can get 99 Damage from your (E) at level 1, because of the AD ratio. Laning phase damage from (E) Really hasn't changed. Late game yes and with CD/Attack speed i find my self spamming it a lot more end game

If you build him tanky, you deal no damage and will be shot down by the adc regardless.

If you build him dmg , you get blown up within 1seconds.

If you build a mix, you won't be tanky AND you deal no damage.

Going 100% Tank or DPS is Dumb. YES!

Now this is why i love Olaf.

He is so versatile in laning phase I can go early tank and still chunk all day to kill/bully them out or go Dps Early against someone like nasus and take 8-10 min towers. The mid-late game I will make a decision.

Push top hard and force there jungler to help top and (R)+Ghost away or take them on 2v1. Forcing 2-3 people top lane reliefs so much pressure from Mid and Bot lane.

Late game I just focus the Squishes first and olaf causes so much disruption in a fight when no one can lock you down and is able to kill most ADC's on his own. Doing this usually forces out 1-2 people from a team fight E.I. Support and ADC. So if your team cannot handle a 4v4 or 4v3 then it is much more then just olaf.

The biggest problem with the Olaf rework what i highlited in the NA forum was exactly that **it literally didnt do fucking shit for him, except made his "new"(-ish) kit perfect for abusing the current fotm op items mainly being: BORK , SV, RANDUIN . **

Guess what happened? All of thoose items got nerfed ---> Olaf went into the dumpster. Currently he is so bad it's not even funny. In the first 15 minutes of game you can do some cool tricks with him, but after that no matter how fed you are, how much ahead you are, you'Ll be laughed at and simply get blown up. He needs a damn rework again.

Talking about items that hurt Olaf..... Guess what it also hurt a dozen other champions, Everyone is in the same boat.

In a team fight squishes are squishes and bork is enough to kill them if they try to kite actives on Bork or Randuin's is godly good. Then you are left with the tanks. Olaf is amazing against tanks. Why, he is a sustain tank. Nothing like going against an ali or mao and sit at 15% hp at the end of a fight while there at 80% and still win the fight, because (E's) ignore damage %.

I also have gone against a full build jungle nasus and killed him 3 times after a team fight. Zil/Ult + GA is ridicules, but i won with BORK , SV, and RANDUIN to what you call bad. Those items are still good items and it didn't just effect him alone when everyone one else felt it to.

Back to Olaf Ultimate: Ragnarok

You forget the most important things: He lost a lot of passive VALUABLE stuff (arp,resistances)

He did not lose his resistance it became his passive when it used to be his active. It is a versatile buff against anyone. Now if you are talking about when he hits (R) then yes and if you have gone bruiser with a proper build then you can ignore that fact and take advantage of being Immune of CC. It doesn't put you in negative armor or resist and with diminishing returns it really isn't that much end game.

So early game you have a defense passive versus anyone in lane and late game resist that is weaker because of diminishing returns. Not the biggest hit to ever happen, but in the end having a early defense passive versus anyone in lane (BUFF).

Now the armor pen everyone screams about. This hurts pure AD Olaf more which is really bad when you can just be deleted and during laning phase this doesn't stop HP or ARMOR stackers.

I would say having a boost in AD during ultimate for a stronger (E) that is now AD ratio will chunk more then arpen over all. Especially when most tops Rush Giants belt or Catalyst. If they go damage I have my passive. Also late game is it much harder to swing those auto attacks against a kiter then it is to just hit (E) to trying to take advantage of your arpen.

I would say over all (BUFF)

I will say this Olaf fell off hard in the jungle when there are so many other champions that are better. Olaf came from a meta that had less mobility like Ashe.

Also this current meta i kid you not in every 2-3 games i am told i am a beast or a monster on olaf. Maybe that is why i love him as he is when i am praised all the time playing him.

Here is a Jpg of before and after rework on Ragnarok

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Olaf is actually really strong. When he can Auto you for 5 seconds. ... Ya.... That never happens.

Salidfingers1 votes

What it really comes down to is if you don't like Olaf's Kit then play another champion.

Now you speak about how lack luster he is and state that if you don't land Q you will be kited to do anything, if zed doesn't land his Q he doesn't do anything either.

Zed is just flashy and nothing more while olaf is a straight up man and brings it to your face.

I hear this a lot with people that he brings nothing to a team fight. Did people forget why is was redone.... 8/10 people will burn there CC on you with your ult up, because it is naturally built into there kit and people panic all the time. Olaf also has the ability to zone out 1-2 people..... With what you call "YOLO" I call Ragnarok. Wait! Zed hits (R) to and vanishs away..... Just Flashy while Olaf like i said brings it like a MAN!!!

TerminatusOmega2 votes

Thats funny, i could have sworn the "flashy" aspect of Zed is his abilities to almost 1-2 combo to kill you. Shredding tanks with ease, being manaless with wave clear built into his kit. Not to mention his high base AD.

Olaf has NO gap closer but has a very restricted slow which most of the time people can walk away if you hit them max distance, by the time you close that distance ON TOP of the distance they walked, the slow effect fades- your axe are easy to dodge, the hitboxes are small and the speed is slow.

Sure Brolaf can get into your face and "man" you up but what than? hes not gonna easily kill you, he has to build tank or damage... going tank? you will get out damaged and bursted down... building damage? you get bursted down instantly.

Brolaf does not have a fall back like zed does. Brolaf's counterplay is very very high compared to a competent zed.

Salidfingers1 votes

You under estimate the power behind olaf.

Feathermane1 votes

The hitbox on Undertow is NOT small. It's gigantic compared to the visual effect.

XxxLumberJackxxX2 votes

What it really comes down to is if you don't like Olaf's Kit then play another champion.

Now you speak about how lack luster he is and state that if you don't land Q you will be kited to do anything, if zed doesn't land his Q he doesn't do anything either.

Zed is just flashy and nothing more while olaf is a straight up man and brings it to your face. !

Ummm. Zed presses R and an enemy team member disappears while zed escapes with most or all of his HP due to shadows. What do you mean flashy and nothing more? he has poke, he has insane damage, and crazy mobility. Olaf has none of this.

Big Nasty Mèat1 votes

Except for a reduced ability to spam axes in the early levels, Olaf is currently just about as oppressive in lane as he was before the rework and destroys the majority of both melee and ranged champs in the top lane. In that sense the rework has failed since they decided replacing free stats with different free stats was the answer. The fundamental play pattern of his Q and R cannot be balanced by simply changing numbers. They need to mechanically alter the way he plays or he'll be god/garbage forever.

Budupops1 votes

The problem is rito is too laxy to fix there mistakes

majulito1 votes

Olafs passive should be as his health gets lower he moves faster.

Legostrike1 votes

plz no more nerfs.

Nausicäa 1 votes

Add the Nidalee rework to the failure list. She has also been completely ignored much like Olaf.

Caustic Crusader1 votes

Because Riot's long past Olaf as the champ to ruin, claim they're gonna get around to fixing, and then not do. They're currently claiming they're gonna fix Cassiopeia, while everybody knows what they're actually doing is looking for the next champ to ruin and then claim to fix, but not actually fix.

Zipp131 votes

Is this post supposed to be a joke?

SmokingPuffin1 votes

The present problem with Olaf is the elephant in the room: fighter kits are all about stats and steroids and don't have much play or counterplay in them. This is the single biggest problem with League today and it's only getting bigger as we add champions like Kalista and Azir.

Of course, because it's not really an Olaf thing, but rather a 2 or 3 dozen champions thing, Riot is feeling confused about how to deal with it. They don't have a strategy they like, and so they're doing nothing about it for now.

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