@Riot/@Meddler Let us talk about Heimerdinger and the nerf coming his way.
First I encourage discussion. If you disagree/agree please add to the conversation rather than adding a blanket statement. Upvote or downvote as you see fit.
I recently took some time off of League (end of season/holiday) and I came back to seeing the Heimerdinger discord rampant with the nerf that is happening to Heimerdinger
>H-28Q Apex Turret (Upgrade!!! empowered turret) beam damage lowered from 200/270/340 to 100/140/180
>(This is his ULTIMATE Turret...)
Lets go into it a little bit before we disagree with it, to shed light on things people might not be aware of.
Stats
The ultimate has a two~ minute cooldown when you get it and last for 8 seconds once placed. At level 6 the turret does 80 + 30% AP/auto with an attack speed of 1.05. Each time it attacks the beam is charged for 20%. The beam attack is 200 damage + 70% ap scaling. If left alone it will complete one beam.
The turret has 875 health and is stationary. At 10 armor and 25 magic resist it resist 9% and 20% respectfully.
You can charge the beam 2 times during it's life span (if you hit a stun + 5 rockets). This brings the POTENTIAL damage of the beam to 600 + 210% ap scaling.
Now the Discussion
Others and I feel that this nerf is because of Toplane Heimerdinger's success rather than mid lane. (Less mobility champions top lane and he can actually keep turrets alive vs less wave clear champions). Mid-lane most Heimerdinger's prefer R-W since they are usually vs squishies.
There is a lot of counter play to Heimerdinger's ultimate. Most of the time you bring out the RQ is when you are being ganked. It does pump out a lot of damage IF you land your abilities. The counter play is to just step back on the gank and re-gank once it times out. (The other time you drop it is for zoning off of their tower). By the time you are level 6 and have backed you have roughly 100~ ap so the damage for the ult turret beam is (BEFORE reductions) 810 and if it's been constantly attacking the entire 8 seconds (so 7 attacks at 109~ a pop) 763 in basic attacks. That is a total of 1573 BEFORE reductions. Usually first backs have been had and top lane is reducing 30-40% of the damage.
Again once it's dropped you just walk away and you take his ultimate away from him.
If he is being ganked: an auto attack + smite will take it out completely (and the top laner should be removing the normal turrets anyways, effectively all of heimer's damage is gone).
Debate
People see the POTENTIAL damage of the beam at 6 (810, and again BEFORE reductions) and think that's a lot for a level 6 ultimate. The thing is, it's avoidable. True sure it is, IF you were landing everything and got 3 beams off. That just doesn't happen. You are lucky to get 2 off and even then it tickles top-laners a lot of the time, especially after 1 or 2 backs. After laning phase you just don't use it. It's pretty much there to discourage tower dives (and again it can be killed/re-ganked very VERY easily).
Honestly, all of the mains I've talked to/seen it discussed about think that this is completely heavy handed and OVER compensating. Sure you could tweak it a little bit but take 50% off at level 6 on something that's not guaranteed to do damage? You are removing his ultimate at 6/laning phase.
1st Scenario
I think the reason Heimerdinger has the win-rate that he does (in top lane, it's atrocious mid-lane right now) is because he is being played my enthusiast/mains. People that enjoy him. None of the runes really shine on him. You can get by just fine without any. (Some runes stand out more the higher elo you are but they make little difference to his core gameplay). On the other side of the lane, you have people experimenting with runes/champions. They may not be playing the best set-up. They may not be playing a champion they are comfortable with or rarely play against Heimer and don't know what to do.
Does this mean he should be nerfed as hard as he has? No. The counter is there, just step back once it's placed and kill afterwards.
2nd Scenario
The new runes are worthless for Heimerdinger, great for others. With the rework of the system he's one of the outliers, anything will work (as stated in the 1st scenario). Since Heimerdinger (specifically top-lane) relies on his turrets more so than other abilities, the runes that change the game for others does not effect him as much. This does not sit well with Riot. They want to change things up for the new season and him being played the same as before is a no-no.
Should he be nerfed? No. He is who he is. The same counter is there as before and the new rune system doesn't make him better by any means. All the other champions he will face are normally BETTER off than before, if they are choosing proper runes/items for playing against him.
Possible Changes for the nerf
Instead of being heavy handed and take 50% off at 6 and 40%~ on the others some things can be done instead if they feel it's still warranted. (though non of us honestly feel it's meaningful as we use it rarely enough).
- Take off 30-20-10% of the base damages.
- Reduce the AP scaling.
- Decrease the timer it is alive.
What we really want, what we really really want Zigazig ah - Better turret mechanics. Actually make it attack when it should be.
RIOT Feedback Request
What's the context/reasoning for this?
