Like wtf is the point in me maining 2 roles to try and caryy my way up in rank only to get thrown support or to have someone else thrown support to flop a game. Makes your whole champ select system feel worthless and makes me miss the old mmr based draft pick. Also what happened to the option you said you would give us to pick our least desired role?
ZephyrDrake5 votesOMFG AUTO FILL IN MY RANKED!? i mean it's not like we actually had to learn more than ONE role before we could chose our roles... you know back in season 5 and below?
InfinitexMortal2 votesAutofill is autosupport thats not "learing more than oen role" that is playing support every fucking game and being stuck at your dumb ass team's mercy. Cuz face it teams at this elo suck and the only way out is to solo carry. Cant do that from support unless your playing off meta and everyone flames and quits anyways
ZephyrDrake1 votesAutofill is autosupport thats not "learing more than oen role" that is playing support every fucking game and being stuck at your dumb ass team's mercy. Cuz face it teams at this elo suck and the only way out is to solo carry. Cant do that from support unless your playing off meta and everyone flames and quits anyways
except you aren't being auto filled every single game. The game actually removes you from the auto fill pool for a few games if you auto filled once! keep whining all you want but before you had to essentially fight for what position you wanted and god forbid that someone just went "FU i'm picking what i want!" which happened ALL THE DAMN TIME! but sure go ahead and whine about auto filling once every once in a while
LordofEntropy1 votesOMFG AUTO FILL IN MY RANKED!? i mean it's not like we actually had to learn more than ONE role before we could chose our roles... you know back in season 5 and below?
This. It only seems like less than a year ago, people were fighting about pick order and roles, and if you were last pick usually that meant you got support, or at least what no one else wanted. Oh wait, it was less than a year ago.
Rivuo2 votesYeah the auto-fill on normal is kinda bullshit. Legit no idea how riot isn't losing a lot of customers that's such a low blow
jaymc11302 votesYeah the auto-fill on normal is kinda bullshit. Legit no idea how riot isn't losing a lot of customers that's such a low blow
The reason autofill is perma enabled is because riot lost a fuck ton of customers.
The player base at this point in time is probably about 20-25% less than it was at this point in time last year. Everything about season 6 was so awful that something on the order of about 5-7 million total players quit playing this game completely.
ZephyrDrake2 votesThe reason autofill is perma enabled is because riot lost a fuck ton of customers.
The player base at this point in time is probably about 20-25% less than it was at this point in time last year. Everything about season 6 was so awful that something on the order of about 5-7 million total players quit playing this game completely.
proof? oh right! you have none!
jaymc11301 votesproof? oh right! you have none!
Actually the proof is very easy to acquire.
You can even get it yourself. First hand if you want.
Quite simply, queue times, in all queues have steadily risen for the last 12 months and are well over 25% longer on average now compared to this same time last year.
This can only happen for one reason and one reason alone.
There are literally no other options.
It can only happen because there are less players playing in all game modes.
By about 20-25%.
Furthermore this is actually confirmed by Riot. They permanently enabled autofill. For one reason and one reason alone. League no longer has a playing population that can support the queue modes unless queue times get ridiculous long at all levels or they implement a feature to shorten queue times. Hence, perma autofill.
Thems the breaks kiddo.
ZephyrDrake1 votesActually the proof is very easy to acquire.
You can even get it yourself. First hand if you want.
Quite simply, queue times, in all queues have steadily risen for the last 12 months and are well over 25% longer on average now compared to this same time last year.
This can only happen for one reason and one reason alone.
There are literally no other options.
It can only happen because there are less players playing in all game modes.
By about 20-25%.
Furthermore this is actually confirmed by Riot. They permanently enabled autofill. For one reason and one reason alone. League no longer has a playing population that can support the queue modes unless queue times get ridiculous long at all levels or they implement a feature to shorten queue times. Hence, perma autofill.
Thems the breaks kiddo.
and this shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Before season 6 all you needed to do was queue up and all the matchmaker had to do was find people with the same relative skill as yours and put you together. After season 6 came you had to choose 2 roles, so now the matchmaker has to also take into account that and match you not only with people of similar skill but also those who have no chosen your roles. It first tries to give you your primary role but if it's a role that everyone likes to play then you are going to be sitting for quite a while. Whereas if you chose a role that not many people would want to play (like support) you would find matches almost instantly due to how fewer people actually want to play that role.
The introduction of you being able to select your role is what made the queue times go up. Not because there are less people playing the game. Try again, you have no actual proof and being extremely biased. Chose support in your role selection and you will see your queue times reduced dramatically, that alone shows you how many games there are people just waiting for support players to actually queue up, that alone is why auto fill is a thing. Because the instant one role is less popular than the rest the queue times for everything else increases
jaymc11301 votesand this shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Before season 6 all you needed to do was queue up and all the matchmaker had to do was find people with the same relative skill as yours and put you together. After season 6 came you had to choose 2 roles, so now the matchmaker has to also take into account that and match you not only with people of similar skill but also those who have no chosen your roles. It first tries to give you your primary role but if it's a role that everyone likes to play then you are going to be sitting for quite a while. Whereas if you chose a role that not many people would want to play (like support) you would find matches almost instantly due to how fewer people actually want to play that role.
The introduction of you being able to select your role is what made the queue times go up. Not because there are less people playing the game. Try again, you have no actual proof and being extremely biased. Chose support in your role selection and you will see your queue times reduced dramatically, that alone shows you how many games there are people just waiting for support players to actually queue up, that alone is why auto fill is a thing. Because the instant one role is less popular than the rest the queue times for everything else increases
Lmao. Its like you don't know how to read.
No mate, 100% wrong here. I'll explain it for you slowly.
What you state CAN'T be possible because that wouldn't explain the 25-30% increased queue times for blind pick on all servers across all MMR ranges.
Now if more player's were playing other game modes this might account for the drop in blind pick. But we know thats not the case because queue times in all other game modes have risen in a linear fashion for the last 12 months (corresponding to the same linear progression in blind pick queue time increases), including during peak play periods (the summer, the point of the year where the most games are played).
Sorry mate. But you can't get a 25% or more increase in queue times in ALL queues in all game modes including blind pick (which doesn't use Role Selection at all) except in one circumstance: Less players are playing the game.
Again, this was confirmed by Riot when the perma enabled autofill.
That's about as slowly as that can be explained. I didn't lose ya did i?
ZephyrDrake2 votesLmao. Its like you don't know how to read.
No mate, 100% wrong here. I'll explain it for you slowly.
What you state CAN'T be possible because that wouldn't explain the 25-30% increased queue times for blind pick on all servers across all MMR ranges.
Now if more player's were playing other game modes this might account for the drop in blind pick. But we know thats not the case because queue times in all other game modes have risen in a linear fashion for the last 12 months (corresponding to the same linear progression in blind pick queue time increases), including during peak play periods (the summer, the point of the year where the most games are played).
Sorry mate. But you can't get a 25% or more increase in queue times in ALL queues in all game modes including blind pick (which doesn't use Role Selection at all) except in one circumstance: Less players are playing the game.
Again, this was confirmed by Riot when the perma enabled autofill.
That's about as slowly as that can be explained. I didn't lose ya did i?
Please, blind pick has rarely had a fast queue time and if there is an increase there it's minimal. I don't play it, i don't give a damn about it. Just shows that more people play draft in NA if there is an actual increase in queue times which i doubt and if there was please give me actual sources of it being increased by that much! oh wait! you cannot give me any sources other than made up numbers that you invented! I get in ARAM games just as fast as before season 6 so... yeah where is the increase there? i get in draft pretty much just as fast as i did before season 6, with a marginal increase in queue times and i don't even play support in draft!
Your numbers are fake, you cannot provide actual proof of your numbers because they are fake, you have no sources because everything you are saying is a lie. Provide me with actual proof/sources and i might actually believe you! which you cannot do since you are making things up
jaymc11302 votesPlease, blind pick has rarely had a fast queue time and if there is an increase there it's minimal. I don't play it, i don't give a damn about it. Just shows that more people play draft in NA if there is an actual increase in queue times which i doubt and if there was please give me actual sources of it being increased by that much! oh wait! you cannot give me any sources other than made up numbers that you invented! I get in ARAM games just as fast as before season 6 so... yeah where is the increase there? i get in draft pretty much just as fast as i did before season 6, with a marginal increase in queue times and i don't even play support in draft!
Your numbers are fake, you cannot provide actual proof of your numbers because they are fake, you have no sources because everything you are saying is a lie. Provide me with actual proof/sources and i might actually believe you! which you cannot do since you are making things up
> Is unaware blind pick is the most played mode of the game and always has been and has the fastest queue times of any mode.
O...K... I'ma leave you to be out there in cuckoo land buddy. Have a nice one mate.
ZephyrDrake2 votes> Is unaware blind pick is the most played mode of the game and always has been and has the fastest queue times of any mode.
O...K... I'ma leave you to be out there in cuckoo land buddy. Have a nice one mate.
GIVE ME ACTUAL NUMBERS INSTEAD OF MADE UP ONES!!!! YOU CANNOT BECAUSE YOU CANNOT!!!!!
have a nice one in your little lying world of "i can invent this numbers without any proof behind them and when people actually give me reasons of why i'm just going to deny them and not try to even give any of my nonexistent sources" have a good one mate
jaymc11301 votesGIVE ME ACTUAL NUMBERS INSTEAD OF MADE UP ONES!!!! YOU CANNOT BECAUSE YOU CANNOT!!!!!
have a nice one in your little lying world of "i can invent this numbers without any proof behind them and when people actually give me reasons of why i'm just going to deny them and not try to even give any of my nonexistent sources" have a good one mate
You want me to email you my spreadsheets with all my data?
Post your email. I'll send you the attachment. No biggie. I don't mind. Not a bit.
You're completely insane... which is alarming.
But if you want to see the data I've been collecting for years now I could email it to you. What's your address?
ZephyrDrake1 votesYou want me to email you my spreadsheets with all my data?
Post your email. I'll send you the attachment. No biggie. I don't mind. Not a bit.
You're completely insane... which is alarming.
But if you want to see the data I've been collecting for years now I could email it to you. What's your address?
post it here! why don't you post it here? you have no data! GTFO i am not giving you my e-mail so you can send me a virus
jaymc11301 votespost it here! why don't you post it here? you have no data! GTFO i am not giving you my e-mail so you can send me a virus
I can't post 4 years worth of spreadsheets here...
There's a character limitation for posts you dunce...
Yeah, you WAY out there in cuckoo land.
Do they at least have nice discounts on tinfoil hats?
ZephyrDrake1 votesI can't post 4 years worth of spreadsheets here...
There's a character limitation for posts you dunce...
Yeah, you WAY out there in cuckoo land.
Do they at least have nice discounts on tinfoil hats?
you cannot post it here because you do not have anything! nice try but there plenty of actual ways. You can post it somewhere and link it where you post it! but you are too stupid to do that and you cannot since that would require you actually having data which you do not. I am not giving you my damn e-mail so that you can send me a virus get that through your damn skull
jaymc11301 votesyou cannot post it here because you do not have anything! nice try but there plenty of actual ways. You can post it somewhere and link it where you post it! but you are too stupid to do that and you cannot since that would require you actually having data which you do not. I am not giving you my damn e-mail so that you can send me a virus get that through your damn skull
Let's see, Riot removed the ability to post attachments to the boards over a year ago, so that won't work.
I could go through about 300 pages of spreadsheet data and take screenshots of it all I guess. Upload each individual image to gyazo and post it. Which would take me several hours. During my holiday. With my family.
Or you can stop being a nut job and create an all new yahoo email account and I can email a single microsoft excel document.
Email you a virus...
How tight is your tin foil hat on? I think its cutting off circulation.
You asked for the data, I offer to email it to you and you flip out.
Cuckoo....
ZephyrDrake1 votesLet's see, Riot removed the ability to post attachments to the boards over a year ago, so that won't work.
I could go through about 300 pages of spreadsheet data and take screenshots of it all I guess. Upload each individual image to gyazo and post it. Which would take me several hours. During my holiday. With my family.
Or you can stop being a nut job and create an all new yahoo email account and I can email a single microsoft excel document.
Email you a virus...
How tight is your tin foil hat on? I think its cutting off circulation.
You asked for the data, I offer to email it to you and you flip out.
Cuckoo....
wow... so you are telling me that you cannot post it somewhere like dropbox, some images of your so called data on imagur or any related site or literally ANY site where anyone can just go there and see whatever you posted by clicking a link? wow you sure are stupid if you cannot even put a simple link. But ok keep making excuses to not actually post your damn data that you so call have. I AM NOT GIVING YOU MY E-MAIL GET THAT THROUGH YOUR WORTHLESS SKULL!
JustMonika132 votesThe reason autofill is perma enabled is because riot lost a fuck ton of customers.
The player base at this point in time is probably about 20-25% less than it was at this point in time last season. Everything about season 6 was so awful that something on the order of about 5-7 million total players quit playing this game completely.
Source?
DeathBurst2 votesCommon sense doesn't provide quantitative figures like "5-7 million total players". And I'm wondering what you even mean by "total". Like, worldwide?
jaymc11301 votesCommon sense doesn't provide quantitative figures like "5-7 million total players". And I'm wondering what you even mean by "total". Like, worldwide?
Yeah, worldwide. This is extrapolated based on values from the NA server player totals and queue times. Just apply the same percentage to the total population for other servers.
DeathBurst2 votes5-7 million players worldwide if FAAAAR less than 20% of the player base. Last published number was 100 million players, and even if you don't believe this one and take the previous one (which was 4 years ago, if I remember correctly), it was already ~65 millions, so barely 10%.
And queue times are a very bad metric to extrapolate from, since it's also dependent on a ton of other factors that have been modified multiple times this year. Even more important, we could have a third of the current player base, if we had a perfect 20% for each of the 5 positions, we would still get far better queue times.
So I don't know what common sense you're talking about, but I disagree with it...
jaymc11301 votes5-7 million players worldwide if FAAAAR less than 20% of the player base. Last published number was 100 million players, and even if you don't believe this one and take the previous one (which was 4 years ago, if I remember correctly), it was already ~65 millions, so barely 10%.
And queue times are a very bad metric to extrapolate from, since it's also dependent on a ton of other factors that have been modified multiple times this year. Even more important, we could have a third of the current player base, if we had a perfect 20% for each of the 5 positions, we would still get far better queue times.
So I don't know what common sense you're talking about, but I disagree with it...
Ah, you are under the mistaken impression that 100 million active accounts means 100 million active players, as the lie goes that Riot fed to those who didnt want to think too hard about the situation.
I have 16 active accounts. Which I play regularly. In the next 2 weeks I'll be making a 17th smurf and I will add it to my others and play it just like I do all the others.
Am I 16 players?
Lol.
We never had 100 millions players.
35 million at best. Not a single person more.
DeathBurst1 votesI have one smurf I play on every couple of months, so I counts for 1.3 monthly accounts, at best. Among the 7 players in the group I play with, only 2 others have a smurf, and they use it even more rarely than me.
Players don't have 3 different accounts on average. People on the boards are not representative of the average League player.
jaymc11302 votesI have one smurf I play on every couple of months, so I counts for 1.3 monthly accounts, at best. Among the 7 players in the group I play with, only 2 others have a smurf, and they use it even more rarely than me.
Players don't have 3 different accounts on average. People on the boards are not representative of the average League player.
Just as an example then, I don't know a SINGLE player in my skill range (diamond and up) that doesn't have multiple accounts. And I know HUNDREDS of other diamond players. Not a single ONE of them has less than 2 accounts and we play them regularly. Some of them have more than 2. If we assume all of diamond+ has just 2 accounts then thats going to be 70,0000+ "players" from just diamond from just the NA server. The only region that has an accurate total player count is Korea, as you have to use your social security analog number to set up an account and you are limited to 3 accounts.
On average there are closer to 3 accounts per player.
100 million divided by 3 is what?
That's how many players we had and its significantly less than that and decreasing every day.
DeathBurst1 votesIf all Bronze have 1 account and all Diamond have 3 accounts, the average number of account is still very close to 1, because there are 20 or 30 more Bronze players than Diamond. You may know hundreds of Diamond players, that's still not representative of the general League population.
Aptest1 votesI disagree.
Role distribution is a bigger cause of queue time than total players queuing : at least in high bronze / silver.
jaymc11301 votesI disagree.
Role distribution is a bigger cause of queue time than total players queuing : at least in high bronze / silver.
Well in the most populated portion of the ladder there is probably a fair mix of both causes involved.
But autofill being perma enabled for all players in all game modes can only mean one thing: This game lost even more players this season than we were afraid it lost. That's a pretty scary thought. And with Riot trying to be all hush hush about just how much of the player base quit playing its any one's guess about how many we have left and whether or not the game will ever recover from this last season.
Aptest1 votesThe game is losing players. This is known and there's some corroborating evidence that was posted a few months back.
I'm just not convinced the game losing players is the reason we are seeing auto-fill. The impact of losing even 50% of the player base should not be a super massive increase in queue time....
whereas role distribution has a very noticeable effect.
jaymc11301 votesThe game is losing players. This is known and there's some corroborating evidence that was posted a few months back.
I'm just not convinced the game losing players is the reason we are seeing auto-fill. The impact of losing even 50% of the player base should not be a super massive increase in queue time....
whereas role distribution has a very noticeable effect.
Sure. But autofill has been enabled since what, August? The month before? And we saw an increasing trend in how often autofill was hitting players in high level play. Then a week or two later we see that autofill is now hitting players in platinum and gold...
Ok...
Then a few weeks later its hitting players in silver and bronze.
Then we reach the end of the season and we start the preseason. And all of a sudden autofill has to be perma enabled?
And Role Selection was in place this entire time? And the frequency with which auto fill was required still increased? And queue times still increased?
Only one thing can mean ALL these things happen like this in a corresponding linear fashion and that's player loss. So sure, we only need autofill BECAUSE role selection exists and there is an inherent distribution problem. But this is exacerbated dramatically, by the continuous loss of players the game experienced this season. There really isn't any other explanation for why the frequency of auto fill increased in direct relation and proportion to the increases we saw in queue times in all queues. It means the primary cause of the problem is there simply aren't enough players for the system to function well any more.
Aptest1 votesa competing hypothesis:
TL;DR: The queue times problem are experiencing is resultant from inherent role distribution problem. However the problem is exacerbated not by decrease in player base, but rather by increased matchmaking demands over the season.
Every time Riot makes matching you into a secondary role less acceptable for the matchmaker, they directly and noticeably increase the queue time. Because the match maker now has to skip over possible games that would have been previously acceptable.
At the beginning of season 6, A bot/support request would result in an almost immediate assignment as a support to a team who's MMR is not aligned with that of the player.
This phenomena of giving a player their less desirable role was also affecting other role requests specifically mid/whatever.
There are a number of posts by riot affirming both that they acknowledge this and that they are taking steps to correct it. Specifically making the matchmaker more constrained into giving you your primary role.
Today, the situation is vastly different. requesting both mid/whatever and whatever/fill (the two edge cases) results in getting primary role the majority of time. I.E. we can safely assume that they tweaked the match maker in this direction multiple times during the season:
and each time they did, they also increased the queue times due to their tweaking.
jaymc11301 votesRanked has never had any legitimacy... the ranked system has never actually functioned in the manner it was intended to function. The system basically only works for the top 1% of the ladder and really only works well for the top 5000 or 10,000 players on a server.
Just saying.
DeathBurst1 votesIf you're Ranked in the middle of the ladder, let's say the 50th percentile, maybe you deserve to actually be in the 55th or the 45th percentile. You don't deserve to be in the 30th or 20th, no fucking way. So is the system perfectly accurate? Definitely not. But I'd say it's good enough for everyone, even in the middle of the ladder, not only the very top, because in the middle of the ladder you also don't need as much accuracy as at the very top.
(And yes, it's just as legitimate as it was before, we seem to agree on that, all the different queues systems didn't change a thing. We just seem to disagree how legitimate it was before.)
jaymc11301 votesIf you're Ranked in the middle of the ladder, let's say the 50th percentile, maybe you deserve to actually be in the 55th or the 45th percentile. You don't deserve to be in the 30th or 20th, no fucking way. So is the system perfectly accurate? Definitely not. But I'd say it's good enough for everyone, even in the middle of the ladder, not only the very top, because in the middle of the ladder you also don't need as much accuracy as at the very top.
This would be true if the system was able to accurately say you belonged to the 45-55th percentile.
But the system actually isn't that precise until you get to the top half of the top 1% of players. The best the system can say about a silver 3 player is that they belong in the 30-60th percentile.
Its that inaccurate. So yeah, you could be in the 50th percentile and "deserve" the 30th. Or the 70th. The system isn't capable of telling. It doesn't use individual skill metrics so it has no way of knowing.
(And yes, it's just as legitimate as it was before, we seem to agree on that, all the different queues systems didn't change a thing. We just seem to disagree how legitimate it was before.)
I'm exaggerating a bit purely for the sake of hyperbole when I say it's never had any degree of legitimacy at all. Its always been fairly accurate for the top 2000 players on the ladder and accurate enough for the top 15,000 or so.
But it literally is incapable of telling the difference between a platinum 3 player and a silver 4 player. In the systems eyes the players can be the same thing since it only measures by win rate and the League system is designed in such a way that a plat 5 could have that as his displayed ranking but have the same win rate as a silver 4 (and thus the same MMR) in extreme circumstances.
Pretty bad system if it can't accurately rank 95% of the playing population.
DeathBurst1 votesIf you take a player at random among all players in Silver 3, there is a very high probability his MMR will be between Silver 2 and Silver 4. And that's good enough for Silver scrubs.
Sure, one individual guy could climb to Plat for whatever reason with a Silver MMR, and that guy could then walk around and brag about a Rank he doesn't deserve. Who cares? On average, you can assume a guy deserved the Rank he achieved, +/- 1 or 2 divisions, and 9 times out of 10, it will be true. And we don't need more than that.
You're exhibiting meaningless outlier, and you're deducing from that that the system doesn't work on average. That's not how stats and probas work...
jaymc11301 votesIf you take a player at random among all players in Silver 3, there is a very high probability his MMR will be between Silver 2 and Silver 4. And that's good enough for Silver scrubs.
Sure, one individual guy could climb to Plat for whatever reason with a Silver MMR, and that guy could then walk around and brag about a Rank he doesn't deserve. Who cares? On average, you can assume a guy deserved the Rank he achieved, +/- 1 or 2 divisions, and 9 times out of 10, it will be true. And we don't need more than that.
You're exhibiting meaningless outlier, and you're deducing from that that the system doesn't work on average. That's not how stats and probas work...
Nah mate, you fail to understand the implication of the dual ranking system.
You need to keep in mind that the League System overlays the MMR system.
And while the MMR system itself is inherently flawed its at least accurate enough that its functional in the most minimal of senses.
Your ranking on the ladder is your MMR.
But this is hidden.
Your displayed ranking is NEVER accurate. Not ever. The league system is what is used to display your ranking and it uses some bs algorithm to out put a ranking based on MMR but that doesn't directly correspond to MMR.
This is why its possible for a plat 5 player to really be a silver 4 player. The league system is extremely forgiving about demoting you and it requires a crazy hard series of things to happen. You can have an MMR of 1300 because you lost 3 out of every 5 games after hitting plat 5 but didn't lose in streaks and thus never got "demoted" but you are still displayed as a plat 5 ranked player despite being 400 MMR short of that threshold.
This is why the ranking systems have been a mess since season 2.
DeathBurst1 votesThis is why its possible for a plat 5 player to really be a silver 4 player. The league system is extremely forgiving about demoting you and it requires a crazy hard series of things to happen. You can have an MMR of 1300 because you lost 3 out of every 5 games after hitting plat 5 but didn't lose in streaks and thus never got "demoted"
Is this possible? For sure. Is it statistically common? I'm pretty sure it's not. And, once again, that's all that matter. There will be outliers, but we don't care about outliers.
(And even if you don't lose in streak, when you are at Gold5/Silver1 MMR but still displayed as Plat5, you are guaranteed a demotion as soon as you lose 1 single game at 0 LP. Can't find an authoritative source, but there are plenty of anecdotal evidence with a quick google search. So your Silver4 displayed as Plat5 example is definitely a stretch. But even if it wasn't, that doesn't change my main point. Outliers are irrelevant.)
JustMonika131 votesSo... How did you deal with Season 5 Draft pick and before? When it was whoever called which role first? And you would have to learn pretty much all the roles?
Quepha1 votesJust like every other random factor with rank, autofill doesn't matter in the long run so you should just play the game and keep improving and you'll get your rank eventually.