risk/reward

Plasma Servant··1 votes·357 views

Riot talks risk/reward, but if you can have a champion that has high survivability (regardless of how) and high damage (either as damage over time, or burst) then you have a champion that has no window of vulnerability. Especially if you add to that cc. If a champion has high survivability, it should have little to no damage. If it has lots of damage, then it should have little survivability. One or the other, but never should it be possible to have both. That means even late game, if a champion can build damage, it should actually reduce survivability. Tanks like darius when fed (and yes, lots of champions when fed are op and need to be nerfed ... but that is another discussion, not this one).

Another ... range vs damage. Varus is stupid for range/damage. His q range can be more than 1600 ... vision range is not that far, and it isn't even his ult. Add to that the increase?? in damage for range, and you have a no window to attack if he just stays away from you, builds enough mana to push q attacks all day long, and it even hits multiple champions, not just the first. So in aram, he can fire a q every few seconds, and wipe out minions and take a quarter of most champion's health. Nidalee is about as bad ... 1500 range. And both are stupid in that the longer the shot, the more damage it inflicts. No projectile, bullet, arrow or even rock, has as much damage at long range as it does short. Even a laser loses energy to heating the atmosphere as it travels. Projectiles do less damage the longer they travel, not more. So should it be in league.

Balance requires that risk and reward be present in all champions equally. It can't be just in the choice of team composition ... that doesn't exist in ARAM and that mode is just as important as ranked.

If two equally fed champions go toe to toe, it should be nearly impossible to tell which would win. I don't believe that is true at this time; but it ought to be. Anything less is not balance. Anything less is not risk vs. reward.

6 Comments

RogueWill2 votes

Have you played Rock, Paper, Scissors? Balancing champion is around that principle. Tanks are bad against glass cannons, glass canons are bad against bruisers, bruisers are bad against tanks. So no.. two equally fed champions would never go toe to toe unless they serve the same role.

3TWarrior1 votes

except don't most bruisers fall into the tank category...such as chogath, alistar, amumu, lee sin, reksai, etc either by forced build or just their nature?

chogath tends to easily annihilate glass cannons whether tanky or pure mage and has trouble with bruisers who can get close(like amumu)

the difficulty gets into the hybrid characters

RogueWill1 votes

Quick things here, because a champion is tanky/healthy/beefy doesn't mean he is a tank. To be considered a tank you have to provide utility (mostly multi target) .

Lee Sin, Alistar, Rek Sai are not tanks, they are bruisers, they should be able to deal with a single opponent and then spend much longer to deal a second or third (either due to long CD, weak AA, or mana hungry).

Amumu and Cho'gath are on the hybrid part, since their combo might kill glass canons.... But Amumu pretty much has to land his Q for that to happen, if he can't land his Q he can't kill a glass cannon. Cho'gath is a tad tricky simply because of his silence making dodge his Q more complicated but in essence is the same principle.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

except don't most bruisers fall into the tank category...such as chogath, alistar, amumu, lee sin, reksai, etc either by forced build or just their nature?

Cho, Lee, Rek are bruisers. Ali and Mumu are tanks.

The difference lies in the number of strong CCs available.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Have you played Rock, Paper, Scissors? Balancing champion is around that principle. Tanks are bad against glass cannons, glass canons are bad against bruisers, bruisers are bad against tanks. So no.. two equally fed champions would never go toe to toe unless they serve the same role.

No tanks are bad against sustain damage. Saying tanks are bad against a high damage source is absurd it's like saying shields are weak against strikes and thrusts.

Tanks are weak against sustain damage dealers, who are weak against bursters, who are bullied by bruisers who then get rekt by tanks. There are people sitting in between but let's ignore that here.

Fiveofswords1 votes

theres more at play here than jsut how tanky you are and how much damage you do. If you also have low mobility and can be kited easily, then thats a serious tactical issue. If you have long range but no escape, theres tactical issues there also. The spectrum is broader than you seem to think.

this whole argument about projectiles is pretty absurd. It doesnt matter. Magic doesnt exist irl either. Anyway its not true...there are examples of projectiles that have higher penetration if they travel further distance...in fact all the projectiles you named will be traveling faster on the down side of their parabolic arc.

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