Are AD Carry mains ever happy with the meta?

Chris Chiaki·Apr 19, 2015·99 votes·15,681 views

Assassin meta? Nope. Poke meta? Nope. Tank meta? Nope.

It's like they won't stop complaining about until they can 1v5 and get Pentakills. Entitled players tsk tsk

180 Comments

ZmuecatApr 19, 201571 votes

Considering the meta revolves around them +1 role, they should always be happy.

I mean, really the meta is just whoever stops their killing spree the most.

Volt CruelerzApr 19, 20152 votes

That's... Actually pretty accurate...

T RexHasLongLegsApr 19, 201510 votes

Lol that last line is the best :D

DeusVultApr 19, 201516 votes

This is exactly it

the meta is always evolving, but with one exemption

ADC's are always a part of a team, the only thing that changes is which ADC is the strongest. You never see a team that doesn't have one

Duke AnaxApr 19, 201526 votes

That's becasue ADC's are strong against structures, and to win SR you need to destroy structures.

ShinjusukeApr 19, 20155 votes

But so much of it is just stupid brainwashing. Any bruiser with a BotRK and an auto reset is as-strong-or-stronger, and a high AP mage with lichbane drops structures just as fast too.

ADCs only exist because Riot forces them to. It's not actually a necessary role and with the exemption of the super hypercarries lke Vayne, Kog and Trist, most of them just plain aren't "better" than if you put any other high-damage role in their place.

OyddAWqJ5rApr 19, 201524 votes

Ranged. RANGED. Strong when sieging structures.

Rew711Apr 19, 20151 votes

I do want you to know that one game, I was Bard and I wasn't doing too hot and so we were against another Bard and a Ezreal . Before we even got to the 20 minute mark, our whole team had come bot to help against them because they were really good (p.s. Ez hit minions while taking in all last hits while mine waited for them to drop and wouldn't allow me to weaken them and even missed a few but anyway) the Ez had a stacking AP item and eventually got enough stacks to be OP so we're down bot and within 2 minutes; "Double Kill", "Triple Kill", "Quadra-Kill", and "Penta-Kill". Typically, I took the blame with no fuss and went on to the next match. Our mid Yas didn't care and even he admitted the Ez was very skilled.

9baksQuJhbApr 19, 201512 votes

What does that have to do with anything in this thread?

rtbf221651412Apr 19, 20151 votes

[deleted]

ZmuecatApr 19, 20154 votes

Your post was not deleted, calm down. Scroll down and hit the show more button.

It was hidden because someone down voted you and no responded to you, and I suspect they downvote you because you were really just complaining, and not adding a thing to the conversation.

ABlueQuakerApr 19, 201527 votes

I think the issue is that, like Zmuecat said, the meta (or the game itself even) revolves around what champions, compositions and playstyles can shut down Carries the most effectively.

Outside of 5-man premades with voice comms and lots of communication, however, AD Carries are left to fend for themselves a lot more. Their allies tend to forego protecting their AD Carry in favor of mindlessly diving into the Enemy team in a futile effort to kill the enemy ADC.

As an on-again-off-again AD Carry main, I can understand why AD Carries get frustrated in Solo Q and Normals when they are constantly abandoned by their thoughtless team mates. Nearly all of the hundreds of dollars worth of skins I own are on AD Carries, yet because of the nature of solo Q I rarely play AD Carry nowadays.

B1naryB0tApr 19, 20154 votes

As a support main, I honestly don't think an ADC in SoloQ would have as rough of a time as the support.

And I pity the jungler.

That Murphys LawApr 20, 20153 votes

Their jungler has 3 kills while you're 0/1/1. What have you been doing scrub? Stop telling me not to push obviously they are the ones pushing. What are you doing here? Go bot or something. GG jungler has no objective control.

BorblandApr 19, 201524 votes

Tank meta is the healthiest.

Not only it is easier to counter, it has a better mentality:

Assassin meta was about soloing and getting kills for yourself. Tank meta is all about strategy and teamplay, you have to engage really well to win a tf, not just send LeBlonk nuking the AP and ADC and getting away with that stupid jump recast.

MandaariApr 19, 201515 votes

It's almost like ADCs are comprised of different players with differing opinions to fit their differing champions.

Poke ADC mains will be happy in poke meta.

Hypercarry mains will be happy in tank meta.

Fuck assassin meta.

As someone who likes hypercarries and AA-centric carries, I am happy with the tank meta.

DivewingApr 20, 20153 votes

As someone who plays Azir the tank meta is cute :3

RiotGhostcrawlerApr 22, 201513 votes

This is a healthy discussion, and I can try to help it along a little by providing some context about how we think about the meta.

(As a meta comment, "meta" is one of those words that gets used to describe so many different things that it has started to lose some of its meaning.)

First, we're okay with having a 1+1+2+J configuration. Things like duo jungle or three champs in one lane may happen from time to time, but we're not going to go out of our way to support them. For the most part, the way players allocate number of champs per lane works, and we don't feel the need to monkey with it.

Second, we are trying to keep the concept of position (top, middle, bottom, jungle) separate from role (fighter, mage, assassin, tank, etc.). We care a lot less which roles are played in which positions as long as the game is healthy overall (more on this below). The characteristics of some roles is going to make them better at some positions (e.g. most junglers are melee) and we're okay with that. Likewise, there are some individual champs that we don't want to see frequently in particular positions, because the results tends to be less fun for everyone. The word "Support" is particularly confusing here, because it refers both to a role ("utility mages" like Janna and Sona) as well as the (traditionally bottom) position of jumping into a lane with another champ without actively farming minions. A support role like Sona can play the support position, but so can a mage or a tank.

Third, every role (and ultimately every champion, though we're not there yet) has to exist in the game somewhere. This is the big corollary to my second point. If there are mages in the top lane and mages in the mid lane, that's fine. If that means fighters have nowhere to exist, that's not fine. Ideally (and I mean in the sense of a compass direction, not the state of the game today) you'd sometimes see mages and sometimes see fighters top. To use the current topic, jungle tanks didn't feel viable, so we made some changes, and now they are plenty viable and I realize some of you feel they are too viable. In crazy world, maybe there is somewhere for marksmen to live besides bottom and maybe you don't even need a marskman every game. But let's not get too crazy yet. We used to design new champs as "Gnar is going to be a top lane fighter." Now we would say "Gnar is a fighter" and leave it up to experimentation and evolution to determine where he fits best, so long as (1) he has some position in which he can be played and (2) isn't oppressive when he does.

Fourth, we are trying as a team to be a little more hands off and provide players more room to experiment, and this applies to the state of the meta as well. Now, I'll admit it's difficult sometimes for us to make the determination of when it is time to step in. This year, we wanted to give y'all a chance to adapt to the preseason changes, but our opinion now is that we waited a little too long to react. We are pretty happy overall with the state of the game post patch 5.5 and 5.6, but maybe things would have felt even better if we had made those changes in 5.4, while 5.2 likely still would have been too soon. Make sense? Likewise, we know there is some concern that tanks are too dominant right now, but we want to wait a few patches to see if that's a persistent problem or not. The meta will shift on its own, and has, even without Riot involvement. Sometimes it needs a nudge and sometimes the shift is towards something that is likely unhealthy in the long run, and when that happens it's our responsibility to take action.

HellioningApr 23, 20155 votes

I agree with most of your message, and I realize you're not likely to respond to this, as it's a drive-by thing to help facilitate discussion, but nonetheless...

{quoted} Third, every role (and ultimately every champion, though we're not there yet) has to exist in the game somewhere. This is the big corollary to my second point. If there are mages in the top lane and mages in the mid lane, that's fine. If that means fighters have nowhere to exist, that's not fine. Ideally (and I mean in the sense of a compass direction, not the state of the game today) you'd sometimes see mages and sometimes see fighters top. To use the current topic, jungle tanks didn't feel viable, so we made some changes, and now they are plenty viable and I realize some of you feel they are too viable. In crazy world, maybe there is somewhere for marksmen to live besides bottom and maybe you don't even need a marskman every game. But let's not get too crazy yet. We used to design new champs as "Gnar is going to be a top lane fighter." Now we would say "Gnar is a fighter" and leave it up to experimentation and evolution to determine where he fits best, so long as (1) he has some position in which he can be played and (2) isn't oppressive when he does.

I feel the best way to reply to that would be a bit too rude for this situation, so I'm just gonna say 'that's never gonna happen.' Marksman is the mandatory role; you will have one in every game. You might not have a fighter or a tank or an assassin or a mage or a support but you will always have an ADC. You could have a mage top or a fighter top or a tank top, or a mage mid or an assassin mid, or a fighter jungle or a tank jungle, or a tank support or a...support support. But the place in the bot lane that farms and the 'support' protects? Has always been an ADC since the meta was established, and will probably always be the ADC.

That, honestly, is something that some people are annoyed about. You need the ability to siege down towers, and marksmen are simply the best at that. You need consistent damage, and ADC are simply better at that then 'light fighters' or whatever you're calling them now, simply because of range.

And is that a problem? Maybe, maybe not, but every time you hear people complaining about ADCs being weak, or saying 'do you want tanks to run over every game!?' when you nerf Jinx, I get irritated. ADCs are the mandatory role at the moment.

DantilqApr 23, 20151 votes

Actually, ADC is NOT mandatory in current meta. A few pro teams have run the 5 bruiser/tank-comps, having Urgot in the "ADC" position, while Urgot is closer to a bruiser than to an ADC.

The killlanes bottom also run no ADC, it's an extremely risky composition reliant on snowballing, having two fighters bottom.

I've in Ranked 5v5, run no-adc comps as well utilizing Ziggs/Cassio in botlane instead of the ADC, Ziggs fills a similar role as an ADC does, with high dps and tower-killing potential. Cassio doesn't have the tower-killing, but have same power-curve as an ADC.

ADC is just easiest way to have a proper teamcomp, with a strong long range damage-deal that can kill towers. There is and will be strategies and team-comps that replace ADC with other things though. I doubt they will be the "default" though.

CrazedPorcupineApr 23, 20153 votes

Azir bot also fills that role of hyper scaling Tower destroyer.

RiotGhostcrawlerApr 24, 20155 votes

Actually, ADC is NOT mandatory in current meta. A few pro teams have run the 5 bruiser/tank-comps, having Urgot in the "ADC" position, while Urgot is closer to a bruiser than to an ADC.

While Urgot is a bit of a mess, I'd still call him a Marskman at the moment. I do agree however that a lot of these rules don't apply to pros who have enough skill and team coordination to make very non-traditional comps or strategies work.

RiotGhostcrawlerApr 24, 20154 votes

That, honestly, is something that some people are annoyed about. You need the ability to siege down towers, and marksmen are simply the best at that. You need consistent damage, and ADC are simply better at that then 'light fighters' or whatever you're calling them now, simply because of range.

I agree with you and tried to suggest that in my previous post. Marks is the one mandatory role you must have covered. It would be awesome if we can develop mage or even melee carries that could be just as viable. I say that being honest that it's a huge amount of work and involves a lot about changing player perceptions so realistically it's not something you'll see soon.

Khell DarkWolfApr 23, 20151 votes

Thank you GC,

I like the embracing and free approach to experiment a little with our champion pools to figure what best suits the team or how to get a champion working better per portioned to their role.

But I kinda feel though as time is progressing on, older champions are becoming harder to experiment with only because if they are one-trick ponies and have to itemize one way then there leaves little to no roof for error in making a diversion in other ways to play them.

I'll give an example (actually two but lets do the first one), Garen:

Garen has a kit that is known to be one trick pony, he can deal damage at the beginning of the game but then falls off as the game progresses which then he has to build tanky to be able to keep pace with his ability to even try to deal damage.

Itemization for him calls for:

CDR
Attack Damage
Resists in the form of Armor and MR
High amounts of Health
Crit chance if he wants to make more use of his E

Currently there are many different options for singular stat itemizations like only Health in the form of warmogs, only pure armor in the form of Thornmail, Pure AD which comes in different flavors too. But combination stats in items are in more shorter supply because of how the items have been changes and removed (looking at Atma's Impaler mind you) in which someone like Garen would want just aren't there.

ignoring the Atma's passive and pretending it didn't exist in the first place, It was an actually good item for him because it gave him two things he wanted and are unique combination of stats you can't get anywhere else into a single item slot: Armor and Crit chance.

If you look at the current field of items now, the only items you can get crit are Youmouu's, Phantom dancer, Static Shiv and Infinity Edge. Sure he may grab Youmouu's, but it isn't very much in terms of grabbing crit. Infinity edge? Good raw amount of Damage, and good starting amount of crit. But what do I pair it up with?

Garen has no business needing Attack speed just to get that extra crit from PD or Static shiv, Grabbing two infinity edge's sounds wasteful.

Same goes for the CDR department, there is a little more choice in CDR if you want CDR + MR, AD + CDR, but CDR + Armor?

Your choices here are either Frozen Heart, Iceborne gauntlet or Ohmwrecker. The first two all require mana and AP items to be bought which are wasteful on a resourceless champion, especially to the point of the fact if the champion has absolutely no AP ratios to squeeze something more out of it.

So leaving it now to Ohmwrecker, this is item is just weak in terms of Raw stats. Never mind the fact if you can even make full use of the passive. If you want to get some Armor and CDR let alone HP as combination stats, there really aren't any good choices.

onto the next issue, common spell rotation is to Close the gap on a target he wants to engage with by either walking up or burning Q for the movement speed boost, then using E to spin to win, using W to reduce damage as needed and then use R to try and execute if enough damage is done.

The problem here like many one trick ponies that struggle is the fact:

Once you blow your rotation, you have nothing to do in between that wait time to make yourself more beneficial. As in, you did your first protocol that is part of your role, you don't have the secondary action to act on after that

A good Example could probably be Shyvana and Warwick:

For Shyvana's First Rotation:

W into a target
Autoattack while using E
Use Q into Autoattack

Second Rotation:

Either use or hold onto Dragon Ult until Cooldowns come back
Continue to Autoattack as it benefits the usage of getting more Q's

Rinse repeat

Warwick's 1st round:

Ult a target

Warwick's 2nd action rotation:

Autoattack with W on
Turn E on
Use Q to deal damage and try to drain tank in the middle of a fight while staying on a target and run them down

Rinse repeat

Garen has this issue, and I honestly think Renekton kinda does as well.

Once cooldowns are blown, you don't get that much impact while waiting and on what you're able to continue contributing during that period.

If Garen had something stupid as a passive somewhere in his kit that allowed his basic autoattacks to remove cooldown off his Q like shyvana/skarner then maybe.

If Renekton had a passive that basic autoattacks lowered the cdr on W's Ruthless Predator like shyvana/skarner, then maybe.

I'm just saying, kits locked in to play a certain way leave little to no imagination of new experimentation on new ways to play a champion.

Especially if champions want combination stats in items that they have no access to get (atma's impaler's armor + crit or Armor + CDR) since those types of items don't exist or don't have mana or AP Ratio's (Frozen heart / AP Items for Garen/Renekton) to make real use or creative use of them (Deathfire Grasp Garen anyone? AP Yi back in the day?).

RiotGhostcrawlerApr 24, 20154 votes

But I kinda feel though as time is progressing on, older champions are becoming harder to experiment with only because if they are one-trick ponies and have to itemize one way then there leaves little to no roof for error in making a diversion in other ways to play them.

Completely agree. We are updating champions on a regular cadence and looking at some ideas for how we can speed that up. Champs that are one-trick ponies, to use your term, don't encourage a lot of experimentation.

BeoridasApr 24, 20151 votes

whats your perspective on anti mages atm? There was few posts about it, but there was really a stigma aroud silence. but Its such a healthy cc. its soft, doesnt prevent sustained dmg or movement. IS reduced by tenacity and is QQsable and cleansable while there is also now a Mikaels which didnt exist before.

Galio gets strong with MR. Veigar gets strong with the enemy's ap. Kassadin has is passive, but gets no benefit from it due to his low MR and no scaling MR. which means that with the right items, he would receive true dmg in the face from mages. his Q shield is rather forgettable and conditional and not sustained thru an enemy combo. whats your plan for future anti mages or kassadin in particular?

ThryaleApr 24, 20151 votes

kass's passive works in tandum with his MR. that means that even if he had only 30 mr and the enemy had 40 mr pen, kass would only take 85% of the intended dmg

BeoridasApr 24, 20152 votes

and hows that contradicting what i said?

Void Stone

Kassadin perpetually ignores unit collision and takes 15% less magic damage.

less magic dmg. which means if the person is dealing +15% magic dmg, above true dmg since its going under the 0 MR. and let say kat is dealing 1k dmg. . well instead of dealing 1150 dmg you are eating true dmg instead. which goes exactly to what i said. you eat 85% of the intended dmg after MR accounted for.

ThryaleApr 24, 20152 votes

what? no, that's not how that even works.

if kass has 30 mr, and kat has 40 mr pen, and kat does 1k base dmg, kass will only take 850 dmg.

no amount of mr pen can reduce you below 0 mr. only mr reduction can bring you below 0, and mr reduction is always applied first before mr pen. so it is almost impossible to reduce a champs mr below 0 (you'd have to be a fid or amumu with an abyssal scepter against an enemy with 30 mr)

BeoridasApr 24, 20151 votes

thats not what i said. i said with the right ITEMS, you can eat more than true. So essentially, sorc boots and an abyssal, and in this case, a kat, which usually rushes also a hunting guide..so the point still stands.

ThryaleApr 24, 20153 votes

are you not listening to me? I told you that's not how that works.

if you have 30 mr, and the enemy kat has sorc boots and abyssal's, this is what would happen:

30 reduced by abyssal scepter's 20 = 10

10 penetrated by sorc boots 20 = 0

mr pen cannot drop you below 0, only mr reduction, and mr reduction is always applied first before mr pen.

So unless you never build any kind of mr and you are going against a fid or an amumu, (who have mr reduction passives) you will not take more than 850 dmg from a 1k base dmg burst as kassadin

IcyPepperApr 19, 201512 votes

Well, it's really up to them to deviate from their normal builds to counterbuild (ya know, like everyone else?). If they think that going the same build over and over is the only way to win, there's either a problem with the build itself or the player.

Here are the anti-tank tools: item 3031 item 3046 item 3078 item 3142 item 3071 give decent dps and penetration to help, but only the first three are traditional adc items. item 3172 helps against cc tanks, and item 3022 aids against dps tanks with sticking power. item 3153 item 3035 are also great tools, however the first isn't the traditional builds for a lot of carries, but it's a good supplement. item 3072 especially when combined with botrk really helps burst, sustain, and dueling power.

It's not like they're completely defenseless. I mean, they're the role that gets a babysitter for the first ten-fifteen minutes, they can't be completely helpless.

edit: Am I wrong, or does the truth suck...? Rather hear your thoughts rather than a random downvote. Don't be salty, help people out if I'm missing something here so we can deal with it better.

Fried NoobApr 19, 201511 votes

Well, they were somewhat happy when the meta was protect the adc and have them carry us to victory.

TiaxApr 19, 201514 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fried Noob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBjVqkmq,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-04-19T03:50:11.868+0000)

Well, they were somewhat happy when the meta was protect the adc and have them carry us to victory.

Nah, back early season 4 adcs complained about the support meta because they couldnt kill anything. (soraka, lulu, karma, and kayle were saving everyone)

IMMASCOOPYOUApr 19, 201510 votes

You have to understand though, most complaining adcs are bronze and most peeps in bronze don't understand the art of peeling and protecting the carry. They also probably have horrid positioning, which makes things even worse. They need something to blame, so they blame the meta. ~~(because they obviously can't blame theirselves)~~

HaestroApr 19, 20158 votes

I'm not sure why GD has such an ADC circlejerk hate. Literally none of my friends ever want to play that role because you're so reliant on your team to make plays and for half the game your solution to most problems is run away from the bruiser and farm.

BluePolarizerApr 19, 20155 votes

Assassin meta: ADC gets deleted in 1 second before being able to output damage thus OP. Poke meta: ADC can never get in range without risking dying for nothing, can't output damage, thus OP. Tank meta: ADC can't kill anything, then gets stunned and deleted in 3 seconds, thus OP.

T RexHasLongLegsApr 19, 20154 votes

Can't tell if this is serious or a joke :D I'm gonna go w/ joke unless told otherwise because satire about players complaining is way better than actual complaining.

For any ADC mains thinking I'm being mean and overlooking the legitimacy of this joke let me remind you of the other side of it

Assassin meta: Forces ADCs to position better, but if they do removes assassin targets and allows ADC to crush assassins when they go in on a bad target. Poke meta: All the enemies are squishy and so when your team engages on them you can destroy them and get that penta (if you can't engage on a poke team and aren't one yourself they deserve the win) Tank meta: Consistent damage is the only way to tear down tanks, yeah you probably have to play a hyper carry to be ADC god, but you're the one everyone needs to protect because that mid lane burst mage is just there to kill the other ADC when you engage, the rest of the team is there to feed your kda

flibitydooApr 19, 20152 votes

I've been here for the last 3 seasons (season 3,4 and 5).

From what I've seen the worst role to play when I started playing was support. (By worst I mean, the role that one no-one wanted. The role that people actively avoided. People would straight up dodge in champ select if they got forced to play support)

This was because they were basically fodder for the assassin/bruisers (when the assassin/bruiser meta was a thing). In most games,I usually saw the Soraka/Sona basically existing only to get jumped on by Darius/Zed in the jungle and die. They couldn't fight back. They couldn't stop it. They existed to die to these champions no matter what.

As I played on and gained summoner levels, it turns out that ADCs were basically in the same boat as supports. They were squishy and just as defenceless as the support. They too died to the Darius who was both tankier and dealt more damage than the ADC. Who gives a crap about the ADC's 3 big DPS items, if every assassin in the game deals more damage faster than they can.

But the difference between the two roles was that the ADC was actively seeked out and killed. The support was more of a secondary target to go after when the ADC was around. During a teamfight, if the ADC showed up, the Akali would drop everything, instagib the adc and then continue fighting.

Back then, ADC and Support were the least called lanes from what I saw. It was always someone calling mid first in champ select. Then someone calling top after. Then jungle. The last two were usually played by the people who said fill or those who didn't say anything at all (and therefore defaulted to filling a role).

Riot's been aware of this too. Look at how many times they've nerfed assassins. Assassin nerfs were in every patch when I was new in season 3. It was usually Kha'zix from what I remember, but the fact that it's been assassins so many times and NOT adcs is a testament to how weak the ADC role is.

BluePolarizerApr 19, 20153 votes

then you realize that with good mechanics, ADCs can wreck entire teams (including the enemy ADC if you are playing a longer ranged carry or highly mobile ADC). There's a reason the most played role of Challenger players is ADC.

A Miss FortuneApr 19, 20152 votes

In the assassin meta, all we did was just delete the assassins if we got even a little fed early or if we got a few items in general. It wasn't that hard to duel assassins if we were both easily as fed since people Zed can be kited and people like Leblanc are hilariously squishy.

As for the tank meta, I honestly think Thornmail needs huge nerfs or just deleted in general. It's such an overpowered item when it makes everyone on the enemy team with AD kill themselves or rely totally on abilities. It's such an overpowered item that it gives ADCs a struggle against anyone with it but the ADC is still the most important part of a team comp right now.

G1RadiobotApr 19, 20158 votes

Oh no! The item designed specifically to counter fed ADCs is countering ADCs!

MrBuffingtonApr 19, 20155 votes

I've seen ADC mains complain in an ADC meta because the enemy ADC snowballs too hard, lol.

MrSlowDieApr 19, 20151 votes

maybe they'll be happy with ADC meta? but well, even in tank meta we have double ADC (mid bot) strategy. Idk what will happen in ADC meta :/

Aych PiiApr 19, 201518 votes

Every meta is ADC meta, it's become so normal we don't even talk about it anymore.

MrSlowDieApr 19, 201511 votes

probably right. I have seen tank top, assassin top, assassin mid, mage top, mage mid, tank jungle, assassin jungle, tank support, mage support, support top, support mid, ADC top, ADC mid. Yet I haven't seen mage/assassiin/tank+support in bot lane. It's always ADC+support

I think the ADC is the meta itself knowing they are mandatory role and irreplaceable class in every meta.

Champion SkinApr 19, 20151 votes

Well someone like Cass is pretty good at sustained damage to deal with bulky tanks and objectives however she is also immobile and if she runs out of mana she is useless

And she isn't as good at pushing towers because of her lack of attack speed compared to ADCs

Occams RaiserApr 19, 20152 votes

You don't NEED an adc if you have an AD jungler. Yi, Jax, Tryn, and Warwick have no probs knocking a turret down. A roaming Yas is beast. But I am aware that the meta is not arbitrary.

Auz the RipperApr 19, 20152 votes

You still need range to siege towers Sure light fighters can replace ADCs in certain comps But against a stall comp you'll get nowhere slowly

DarksideEricApr 19, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TBjVqkmq,comment-id=00120000000000000000,timestamp=2015-04-19T16:01:08.442+0000)

You don't NEED an adc if you have an AD jungler. Yi, Jax, Tryn, and Warwick have no probs knocking a turret down. A roaming Yas is beast. But I am aware that the meta is not arbitrary.

Yes, they have no problem knocking down turrets... from melee range.

Outside of that? Not so much.

That's why ADC > Melee AD.